LOYAL AG said:

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BBRex said:

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I'm more worried about Western Civilization collapse.

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They go hand in hand. The US and Western Europe largely have built their cultures around hard work and creativity with the U.S. mixing in a healthy dose of rugged individualism. The entire rest of the world is built around collectivism and naked pursuit of power. The problem in the west is two fold. First, our birth rates aren't sufficient to maintain, never mind continue growing, that cultural mindset. Second, internally we have a significant political movement whose beliefs mirror the entire rest of the world and not the values that made the west the dominant culture on earth.

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Yep, we are f'ed. My wife and I didn't help any, but that's the way life worked out for us.

Good luck to future white people. You are going to need it so hard.

Wife and I may need it as well depending on how fast things deteriorate.

BBRex said:

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I'm more worried about Western Civilization collapse.

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Same thing

Working on adding 1 more to the pile. Have 2 already.

Fightin_Aggie said:

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BBRex said:

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I'm more worried about Western Civilization collapse.

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Same thing

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Western civilization will still exist, it'll just look different than it does today. That's no different than it looking different than it did 150 years ago. We're still here, we're just different.

NavasotaAg said:

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I gave the planet 4 so don't gripe at me

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Just 4?

Obviously someone isn't Mexi-CAN.

LOYAL AG said:

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BBRex said:

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I'm more worried about Western Civilization collapse.

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They go hand in hand. The US and Western Europe largely have built their cultures around hard work and creativity with the U.S. mixing in a healthy dose of rugged individualism. The entire rest of the world is built around collectivism and naked pursuit of power. The problem in the west is two fold. First, our birth rates aren't sufficient to maintain, never mind continue growing, that cultural mindset. Second, internally we have a significant political movement whose beliefs mirror the entire rest of the world and not the values that made the west the dominant culture on earth.

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I dont know if that explanation fits the history of the United States. The Baby Boom experienced after WW2. A culture surviving isnt collectivism vs rugged individualism but rather selfish vs unselfish. Consumerism vs family.

During the baby boom, America was likely at its minimum in terms of selfishness. Huge families. Kids helped support the family. Families took in the grandparents for multi generational housing. Rugged individualism still persisted but I think rugged individualism persists (id argue to a more extreme amount) today. Well maybe not the rugged but the individualism for sure.

Keep in mind that the baby boom also coincided with the Awakening and boom in Christianity. Life was valued. Community was valued. Family was valued.

Sadly for my generation, millennials and slightly older gen X; consumerism has come before family. Mostly on the back of the career woman push. Some of it comes from a misguided place of good: i want my kid to have the opportunity to (go to college, play club sports, go on great vacations, travel the world, etc).

we had two then I got snipped and she got tied. Best decision ever.

No Spin Ag said:

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This person had an interesting reply:

Quote:

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These numbers are real but the interpretation is completely off.

Low birth rates in Europe aren't the result of replacement, mixing, or some secret agenda.

They're the result of Europeans themselves choosing fewer children because of:
high cost of living
late marriage
economic pressure
dual-income households
urbanization
career prioritization
social systems designed around individualism

That's demography, not destruction.

Meanwhile, high fertility countries are simply doing what every population has done in history when they're young: grow.

Human groups have expanded, collapsed, migrated, blended, and reshaped one another for 300,000 years.

There has NEVER been a permanent, isolated 'founding population.'
Every major civilization is the product of waves of migration and mixing.

Europe itself?
Celts Romans Goths Moors Vikings Slavs Normans Turks
There is no single 'original population.'
There never was.

And here's the key scientific point:

Demographic change does NOT erase people.
It creates new variations of people.

Skin tones shift. Languages shift. Cultures evolve.
That's exactly how every modern population was formed.

Calling this 'the end of the West' assumes that culture is static and biological but culture is learned, transmitted, and constantly reinvented.

And fertility collapse?

It's not racial.
It's economic.

South Korea, Japan, China all majority Asian have fertility LOWER than Europe.

By your logic, they should also be considered 'disappearing,' but we never frame it that way.

Why?
Because this isn't about race.
It's about modernity.

Migration isn't erasure.

It's the oldest human behavior on the planet.

Humans left Africa in multiple waves.
Humans mixed with Neanderthals.
Humans mixed across continents long before borders existed.

This moment in history is not an anomaly it's a continuation of what humans have always done.

Fear doesn't come from the numbers.

Fear comes from the belief that identity is fragile.

But identities evolve.
Cultures adapt.
People blend.
Humanity continues.

This isn't the 'end of the old world.'
It's the beginning of the next one just like every era before it.

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Cost of living is too high for kids. Checks countries with highest birth rates... all of those countries are comparatively far poorer then western countries. Look within the USA which groups are having the most kids; hint it isnt the wealthy.

This is a big problem. Neither of my two sons (27 & 33 yrs old) nor their longtime girlfriends are interested in getting married and definitely not having kids. I'm praying for an accident.

texagbeliever said:

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Cost of living is too high for kids. Checks countries with highest birth rates... all of those countries are comparatively far poorer then western countries. Look within the USA which groups are having the most kids; hint it isnt the wealthy.

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COL plays a small part, imo. More and more young women don't want kids. It's that simple.

Mens also are not wanting to get married or deal with the other gender.

texagbeliever said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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BBRex said:

---

I'm more worried about Western Civilization collapse.

---

They go hand in hand. The US and Western Europe largely have built their cultures around hard work and creativity with the U.S. mixing in a healthy dose of rugged individualism. The entire rest of the world is built around collectivism and naked pursuit of power. The problem in the west is two fold. First, our birth rates aren't sufficient to maintain, never mind continue growing, that cultural mindset. Second, internally we have a significant political movement whose beliefs mirror the entire rest of the world and not the values that made the west the dominant culture on earth.

---

I dont know if that explanation fits the history of the United States. The Baby Boom experienced after WW2. A culture surviving isnt collectivism vs rugged individualism but rather selfish vs unselfish. Consumerism vs family.

During the baby boom, America was likely at its minimum in terms of selfishness. Huge families. Kids helped support the family. Families took in the grandparents for multi generational housing. Rugged individualism still persisted but I think rugged individualism persists (id argue to a more extreme amount) today. Well maybe not the rugged but the individualism for sure.

Keep in mind that the baby boom also coincided with the Awakening and boom in Christianity. Life was valued. Community was valued. Family was valued.

Sadly for my generation, millennials and slightly older gen X; consumerism has come before family. Mostly on the back of the career woman push. Some of it comes from a misguided place of good: i want my kid to have the opportunity to (go to college, play club sports, go on great vacations, travel the world, etc).

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but I think you're missing on some definitions. Rugged individualism isn't selfish in any way but rather is the reliance on oneself to provide for your family rather than relying on the collective. It's self reliance, it just sounds cooler to call it rugged individualism. The baby boom was a very self reliant era with large families and a rapidly expanding population creating lots of economic opportunities for everyone.

This era we see today with fewer to no children isn't even close to rugged individualism but rather is an era of selfishness which is a core characteristic of collectivism. Selfish people want society to provide for them and give no thought to their role in perpetuating that system. As long as they get theirs nothing else matters.

The "+" at the end of the acronym isn't just for pedophiles. It's also for vesectomites and DINKs.

All peas in the same pod.

93MarineHorn said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Cost of living is too high for kids. Checks countries with highest birth rates... all of those countries are comparatively far poorer then western countries. Look within the USA which groups are having the most kids; hint it isnt the wealthy.

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COL plays a small part, imo. More and more young women don't want kids. It's that simple.

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Not young Christian women. The non believers have been sold that they own their body and their body should be seen like an asset. Babies just are something that devalues them. Prostitution is empowering. Only fans is empowering. Kids hurt your career progression. I think there was an actress or singer who recently said she didnt regret her abortion because the baby would have hampered her career.

Ultimately men overall have been willing to go along with this mindset. It means they can get more sex. And sex with less commitment. No kids. They are like this is a win-win-win. Yet ultimately their life lacks purpose and their desires are never satisfied.

No Spin Ag said:

---

This person had an interesting reply:

Quote:

---

These numbers are real but the interpretation is completely off.

Low birth rates in Europe aren't the result of replacement, mixing, or some secret agenda.

They're the result of Europeans themselves choosing fewer children because of:
high cost of living
late marriage
economic pressure
dual-income households
urbanization
career prioritization
social systems designed around individualism

That's demography, not destruction.

Meanwhile, high fertility countries are simply doing what every population has done in history when they're young: grow.

Human groups have expanded, collapsed, migrated, blended, and reshaped one another for 300,000 years.

There has NEVER been a permanent, isolated 'founding population.'
Every major civilization is the product of waves of migration and mixing.

Europe itself?
Celts Romans Goths Moors Vikings Slavs Normans Turks
There is no single 'original population.'
There never was.

And here's the key scientific point:

Demographic change does NOT erase people.
It creates new variations of people.

Skin tones shift. Languages shift. Cultures evolve.
That's exactly how every modern population was formed.

Calling this 'the end of the West' assumes that culture is static and biological but culture is learned, transmitted, and constantly reinvented.

And fertility collapse?

It's not racial.
It's economic.

South Korea, Japan, China all majority Asian have fertility LOWER than Europe.

By your logic, they should also be considered 'disappearing,' but we never frame it that way.

Why?
Because this isn't about race.
It's about modernity.

Migration isn't erasure.

It's the oldest human behavior on the planet.

Humans left Africa in multiple waves.
Humans mixed with Neanderthals.
Humans mixed across continents long before borders existed.

This moment in history is not an anomaly it's a continuation of what humans have always done.

Fear doesn't come from the numbers.

Fear comes from the belief that identity is fragile.

But identities evolve.
Cultures adapt.
People blend.
Humanity continues.

This isn't the 'end of the old world.'
It's the beginning of the next one just like every era before it.

---

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Great find. Modernity is selfishness repackaged.

My fear is that people won't learn the right lessons. It isn't the Christian West that is collapsing and failing; it's the Moderns who kept the wrong pieces from a previously Christian West. The dominant culture iterated in the wrong direction and being pruned. I fear they'll cause irreparable damage with their death throes which leave those of us who would restart a Christ based culture as a minority in a cultural soup.

747Ag said:

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We're doing our part... catching up to Dad-o-Lot in June.

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CONGRATULATIONS!!!

I think biology and age wins and we're done. If Mom-O-Lot got pregnant again I'm sure it would make news.

NavasotaAg said:

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I gave the planet 4 so don't gripe at me

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Those are rookie numbers, you've gotta bump those numbers up!!

But you are not being replaced.

You keep seeing things like this. With the role of rampant Leftism especially in Academia and Entertainment recognized (purging both would go a long way) could some of the causes be a little more straight forward. To hear younger these days, even dating seems to be exceedingly expensive and marrying really over the top. You hear numbers that used to go to grand purchases like first dwellings and cars.

So it seems to have created a situation somewhere for if you don't want to live a handout life (which takes skill at gaming systems and other things the more ordinary don't want to do) it seems that the middle class of kids just really don't have the cycles or means to get much on the path that leads to household building.

The downsides of getting rid of the present system and especially teachings in school for Gen Z certainly seem to be lessening by the day. It favors those imported and those ruling, it truly does.

It has nothing to do with the cost of raising kids. Our peasant ancestors were having kids in droves and every other race is still having kids. It has to do with raising kids being perceived as hard (I say this as a millennial with 2 kids). No one wants to give up their Netflix time or wake up in the night to tend to a child. I know countless well-off white couples without kids because they don't want to give up their comfortable lives, not because they would if they could but it's just too financially straining.

Agreed. Inherent in this is that much of the rest of the world is about to take major steps backwards. The US makes the world work. As we continue to pull away and pivot to our hemisphere many countries are going to fail and regress.

The idea that things will be different is true and it will be different in a very bad way for most of the planet. We are going to see societal collapse in para of the world.

Dad-O-Lot said:

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NavasotaAg said:

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I gave the planet 4 so don't gripe at me

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Those are rookie numbers, you've gotta bump those numbers up!!

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Would a ~half German, quarter Persian, quarter Arab, and .5% Bantu baby be considered white? Asking for a friend.