Yes boys & grils...it's that time again.
The World Cup, the biggest sporting event in the world takes place in a few months.

I hope I get some responses to this post. Gotta be more than 1 person interested.

Quick Fact.....
Did you know that the Final game (1998 World Cup) alone had T.V viewing figures of over 1 billion people!!! 1/6th of the planet was watching that game. Crazy eh???

Amyway......I of course will be cheering on my lads from England. Even though we are in a tough group, I think we have a good chance. Toughest of our opening round with be Argentina. Very skillful, but cheating *******s. It is a shame. I wish they would not roll around on the ground in 'agony' if someone mearly brushes by them!

I think the USA is like England in that, we play fair & don't act like complete pansy's.

How do you lot see the USAs chances??? You can't do any worse than last time out, eh?


If there is anyone that at this point is not really into 'Football', give it a go, you may be surprised if you start to follow a few teams, & learn the tactics of the 'beautiful game'.


Ollie.

Even more important, the World Lacrosse Championships are this year in Perth, Australia.

http://www.lacrosse2002.com/

Watched by an audience of......well...... a few anyway.

Yeah, but at least those few will see something exciting.

Ahh...I see.

Hey man, if you don't like it, that's fine. Not going to get a rise outa me that easily.

But maybe you can enlighten me as to why it is such a popular game if it is so dull?

If you want to talk about a boring game...you can always mention Baseball or Cricket..

I have to admit, sans rioting, it looks like a lot of fun at soccer matches. I have watched a bit on TV and I guess it's just a matter of what you're used to seeing. As to why the world finds soccer so appealing, I really don't have an answer. Partly, I view soccer as a substitute for war. It appears that extrememe nationalism is a dominant theme in the game. It gives third-world nations an opportunity to prove themselves in the international arena. Of course, this doesn't explain the English or European soccer frenzy. I am not going to knock it as a worthless sport because it's not. However, being an American, I am just plain too ingrained in my sports interests and complexities. Bring on American football!

[This message has been edited by AG JD (edited 1/28/2002).]

Actually, I can't wait, either. I'll really be going through withdrawal pains by then.

I know, what I've been doing here since Thanksgiving (as referee for some of the best, and worst, high school soccer anywhere) is quite removed from the Copa Mondial. But it sure beats the club season coming up.

I'm glad that other "sport" played with 22 participants is about over, too.

those who diss the beautiful game are just showing their ignorance.

"There's nothing worn under the kilt...It's all in perfect working order."

Essayons,

Flaggie
FTAB '69

I am a huge American Football fan & have grown to really love it (especially college ball). When I first watched it, I thought it was the biggest load of crap there was. Stopping & starting all the time, pads & helmets, etc etc. But...once I really learnt most of the rules, tactics & started to follow teams, I really got into it.
I suspect if people did the same with our football it would be the same deal. I also think it helps to go to a match in England/Italy or somewhere like that.
A mate of mine & his wife went to England & went to see Tottenham Hotspurs play. he has come back a big fan & now follows it with passion. It took for him to experience the passion at a match to get into the whole thing.

With so much time before college football starts up again, I'm really looking forward to the World Cup.

Unfortunately, I'll have to suffer through all the ridiculous Olympic hype to get to it.

I thought I would supply a few links that might be useful to you guys.

Not sure how to make these live as it were, so if anyone can help me out & post them correctly, go right ahead.

Guardian Newspaper Coverage
http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2002/

BBC Coverage
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/football/world_cup_2002/default.stm

Soccernet Coverage
http://www.soccernet.com/worldcup/index.html

CBS Coverage
http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/soccer/worldcup2002/index.html

US Soccer Federation
http://www.ussoccer.com/home/default.sps


That should do for now.
You guys are lucky with your group....check out who we (England) gotta play in the opening round!!!!

Whos Ruud Van Nisterrooy playing for this World Cup? England right?

I was playing FIFA 2002 on PS2, I was Manchester United. Nisterrooy couldnt be stopped. Thats a awesome game, even if you think soccer is boring, like me.

I honestly think soccer is a sport that is only admired by those who play it because they know what to look for. Its like golf, how many people watch golf that dont play? Soccer has a different intensity, different pattern, and different strategy than most sports. I love to see the slow play because that means the players are not simply playing "kickball" and you cant play "dump and run" in soccer. When the game is slow, it is at its best, the defense is doing its best, and the offense is quickest on its feet. Its the give and goes and the one-timers that bring me back to soccer. There are so few opportunities to win the game that you can lose or win a game at any minute of the game(which most people dont appreciate), any play, and at any moment of brilliance. I know its not for everybody and that is totally cool. who knows how US will do but we are getting better, unfortunately so is the rest of the world, dang it.

Thanksandgigem....yeah I do agree with you.
I think the US could do well, but I have not had the opportunity to see them up close & personal in a while as I was out of the country for a while.

Van Nistelrooy is Dutch & plays for Hollands national team. Unfortunately, Holland did not qualify (those European qualification groups are really tough), which is a shame, cos they are often lots of fun to watch.

Argentina are tipped to win it all. Argentina vs England in the first round is going to be a great great game.

I just cant bring myself to like argentinian soccer. I tried but they are whinners on and off the field. With all the talent they have they should be a powerhouse in every cup but I dont think they play with the intensity the rest of the teams play with. I hope your kids trample them.
the US team's saving grace is european soccer leagues. I think the MLS so far is a joke compared to european standards (a retirement league) but the sport is picking up and hopefully the competition will continue to grow here. But whats saving our team is some of our players playing over seas and then coming back twice as good as they were when they left. Europe is the measuring stick of QUALITY soccer, not the speed game like the MLS.

LondonOllie,

I checked out a pretty cool website yesterday on English soccer so I now have at least a cursory knowledge of how the leagues (or The League?) operate. I can't remember the website off the top of my head and I'm too lazy to check for it now.

The USA should become a soccer power one day. It is fervently played by many American children. Soccer leagues are HUGELY popular amongst the younger kids, particularly. However, I think the one thing holding our nation back is that once they reach a certain age, soccer is no longer a "legitimate" sport; rather, they are pushed toward baseball, football or basketball. My theory may be wrong, of course.

OK, Ollie, I have a couple of questions about English soccer, er, football:

1. Do the teams stay constant? What I mean, are there "established" teams or can a new team be formed and rise in the ranks to the Premier League?

2. How do teams get their players? Are they from a farm system similar to what is used in American baseball?

3. The numbers of cups are bewildering. I may questions forthcoming regarding it.

Thanks!

There is a professional game in Houston, Roberston Field 8pm, on Feb. 5th. River Plate vs. Chivas. River Plate is currently ranked 13th in the world, so if ya'll would like to see a good game be there. Tickets are being sold at Fiesta Marts for $21 to $31 dollars.

The English league is actually made up of 4 divisions, the bottom 4 teams at the end of the season move down a division and the top 4 from the lower division move up. This process is called being relegated and promoted. Their players play for the pro teams at the youth level and eventually move up to the Mens team and they are paid for it, so it is similar to the farm system but they don't play little league ball they are pros from a young age.

My uncle says Portugal will raise the World Cup this summer. They did very well in Euro2000 and have a team that have grown up with success. He says the Argentines will falter because of the chaos back home. I still think that the French are the best men's team - they have too much talent to give up their crown.

As far as the feeder system of the pro teams in England, I am pretty sure that those players come up through youth teams (sometimes funded by the pro clubs) until they are 16, when they can sign pro contracts with different clubs. The big clubs buy top talent from the smaller clubs; maybe that's the closest analogy to American Minor league baseball and players developping with lower level teams before stepping up to an EPL club?

Manchester United is a good example to look at. Giggs, Scholes, and the Neville brothers all developed through their youth academy. Then the club "bought" other top talent like Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Veron, Barthez, Blanc, etc...

I think that MLS wants to become a feeder league, hoping to sell players to clubs in Europe to make enough money to stay afloat.

It's all very different from women's pro soccer where the players have gone to college.

Well, a few of you answered the questions pretty well I think.
There are 4 divisions.
Premiership, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th.
Below that there are other small confrences & it is of course possible to get into the 4 main divisions, as well as dropping all the way down if you were bad enough.
Wimbledon (who are now back in the 1st div) managed a while back to move all the way up from the 4th to the premiership. This is a hard thing to do, but it is even tougher trying to stay up without being relegated. This is because it is so expensive to assemble a deep squad capable of playing with the big boys, that lots of clubs move up for a year, & then drop back down.

As for domestic cup competitions. Lets take the FA Cup, which is the most famous knockout competition in the world.
All teams can enter, & it really is just what I said...a knockout competition.
The big boys from the Premiership dont even have to play until the 4th round, but you still often have lots of teams from lower divisions, & even some outside the main 4.
The great thing about it is, on any given day, there can be some giant killers.
Non conference teams have beaten huge Premiership teams.
Here is some info on upsets..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/football/newsid_1591000/1591567.stm

Gen Info...
http://www.thefa.com/facup/default.asp


As for the world cup, I don't see Portugal winning. They are a good team, but always crumble when it comes to the WC.

Are there any limits to spending for players? Who "owns" these teams? If I, Mark Cuban, billionaire boy owner of the Dallas Mavericks, decide I want an English soccer team, can I buy one and then spend any amount of money on obtaining players? It is interesting to see how American pro sports are structured versus other pro sports around the world.

Oh, I noticed that you always speak of a team in the plural. "Wimbledom were a 4th Division.." or "Manchester United are the best.." Interesting difference in grammar. As George Bernard Shaw used to say, the Americans and British are peoples separated by a common language.

Yeah, in theory if you were rich, you can buy any team you want. Some teams are now floated on the stock market too, which is how they make extra $.
There is no cap on what you want to spend, & this is why some teams remain at the top. The bosses put huge investments into new players. Some clubs gamble on the fact that they write checks that they can not afford, hoping that it will 'buy' them a way into playing in some of the big European competitions. This is where the really big money can be made.
To qualify for Europe (if you are in the English leagues), there are a few ways....
Either finish in the top 4 of the Premiership, or win the FA Cup, or the League Cup competition.
The latter two can be won by any team out there, but obviously to win the Premiership, you have to be in that division in the first place.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB had divisions and structuring such as English Football? The MLS could easily do so, with the "A" league, etc.

"There's nothing worn under the kilt...It's all in perfect working order."

Essayons,

Flaggie
FTAB '69

[This message has been edited by flaggie (edited 2/4/2002).]

LondonOllie - Nice to see some other soccer fans hanging around. Thanks for posting. I will be watching all the coverage I can.

In 1994, I had to watch every game on the spanish channel because we didn't have cable...this time I think we are going to splurge and get ESPN!!! OH MY!

The problem with the MLS is the pay.
If one of your kids is a gifted athelite, I think they end up moving over into one of other big 3 sports here in the USA because you have more opportunity to earn $$$. Very few Americans make it over to Europe to earn the big bucks & so it hinders the development of players here.
Not a bad thing...I mean, we gotta beat you in something, right??

I will never understand why the few U.S. Americans that like soccer praise the English leage and National team. English league is bias with one big team. The Manchester United is the equivalent of the New York Yankees in MLB. Everybody else in the world knows that the best two leagues are Spanish and the Italian.
As far of the English national team is concerned, their style of football is boring since it is only concerned with running to the corner and kick a high ball for someone to head it in. Booooring.
No wonder why the English have done jack since their only world cup at home in 1966. Argentina is the favorite team to win it all next summer and has enough high quality players to like up 3 teams that all three will bet England. In mY opinion the English should worry about the other teams on their group to try to get the second spot. Finally calling Argentina cheaters is a demonstration of lack of knowledge. Argentinians are the most wanted players on any league.

Err, well.....let me start by saying that maybe it is you that has lack of knowledge.
It is debateable which are the best leagues in the world. Top to bottom, I would say Italy followed by England.
Yep, recently Man U have been the team to beat, but this year the race is a lot tighter. And of course you still have the cup competitions. My team Spurs are in one cup final & are still in the running for the other.
At the top of the league....you have 4 teams within 3 or 4 points of each other. So, that is a pretty tight race I would say.
If you had watched English football recently, you would notice that in the domestic & international game, it is not just a case of 'hoofing' the ball up field anymore. There is a lot of fluid passing, & possession going on, & has been for a while for a lot of teams.
This is quite tough to do, because our style of play is usually a lot faster paced compared to many other countries.
Without a doubt, the Premier league is the most exciting league in the world to watch, because of the pace of the game. It has a HUGE following in countries such as Spain for example.

As for Argentina...yes they are very skillful, but they play like a bunch of little girls. A gust of wind blows on them & they drop like a sack of potatoes! And yes, they do cheat, & are known for it. For example, durning the last World Cup when they played England, David Beckham was fouled by an Argie, & then stupidly reacted. He brushed the guy with his foot & the Argentinian acted like he had been shot or something! Of course, Beckham got sent off.
Since that game, the Argentian player has readily admitted that he did over react in order to get Beckham booked & sent off, & he was almost proud of this. Do you call that fair play?
What about Maradonna (football genius all the same) when he scored with his hand, & called it the hand of god! Come on....get real.

So as for the Argies, they play with great skill, but act like *******.


'It's been......emotional'.

I don't know about the Argentinians being the most covetted players in any league. Veron, Simeone, Crespo, etc... are all great players. But, the same could be said about the french stars. I have not gone through the entire layout of the tournament this summer, but it would be an amazing final if Argentina met France for the Championship.

I think that all of the European leagues have their top 3-4 teams. Thank goodness the Champions League is there to bring them all together for a great club competition throughout the year. But, top to bottom, the EPL is tops! Yes, Man Utd is like the Yankees, but there are several teams within striking distance of them (Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool) and other great teams that might not be able to win it all, but can compete with the best (Leeds, Chelsea, Spurs, and Tigana's Fulham).

Just my simple opinions.

Once again you fall behind your love for English soccer. as I say befoe, England has done nothing worldwide since 66. And I don't think they will. Ask most of the players in the world an they would like to play on the Italian or Spanish leages before the English. When was the last time a player from the English league was the FIFA player of the year? long time...that says a lot. Without the Manchester United the league would be as interesting as the MLS. Argentina is taking the cup in Korea/Japan and Italy anf France are the only 2 teams capable of upseting them. As for the English, after getting the second place of their group (if they get it)they will play France, and sorry my friend, that is the end of their World Cup race. As for judging my knowledge, i've been to every world cup since 1982. How about you?

One more thing, i guess that "hand of god" still hurts huh?

I am just making a point about fair play. As you are aware of the incident....is it cheating, or do the rules allow you to do that?

Thats my point.

'It's been......emotional'.

I am aware of the incidetn. As a matter of fact i was there in the stadium. Yes, it was cheating, but don't forget that in the same game Maradona made half of the English team look like newbies by scoring one of the most beautiful goal in history. I also find hard to believe the English should be an example of fair play, much less their fans who are threat to everybody else.

OK, so we have established that Argentina cheats. Thanks.
I agree Maradonna was an amazing player, & if you check any of my posts, I have not critized the skills. I just made the points about fair play. As for the English players, we constantly get awarded the fair play awards at major competitions, because we do not on the whole play act/cheat like many others. I think the USA national team is much like the English from what I have seen. If they get foulded, they don't act like wimps.

OK, so now you are talking about English 'hooligans' I presume?
Have you ever even been to a game where there is crowd trouble? I have been to many games, & for the record, it is a small small minority that cause problems.
The large majority of fans are well behaved.
Also, I would not just blame the English. You should take a look at the Dutch, Germans, Italians, Turks, & yes....many South American fans.



'It's been......emotional'.

[This message has been edited by LondonOllie (edited 2/14/2002).]

And we also agree that England (with the most powerful league acoording to you) have no chance whatsoever of winning the world cup, or even getting into quarter finals.
You talk like if English players were fair. Waht about Paul Gascgoine? Not a fair player role model if you asked me...yes yes I know it is retired but i assume you live in the past by stil considering England a serious contender for the cup. Maybe you guys should push getting to host he WC again...maybe you get another controversial goal call in overtime like you did in 66 to win the cup...

This is a pointless conversation.
All you try to do is be antagonistic. You make some statements & I then rebuff them with facts, at which point you try to turn it into a tit for tat argument about England having no chances etc etc...smart.
I started this thread to chat about the W.C, & you seem to want to turn it into an Anti England thread.
I can not be bothered to continue this, so if you feel England has no chance, then fine!
As they say over here....thats why they play the games, because you never know, right?

We all can have an opinion, you don't like England, & I think the Argies for all their beautiful football, are a bunch of *******, that often cheat.

So, if anyone wants to chat about the games without it turning sour....I would like to hear from you.





'It's been......emotional'.