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China and the United States both consider themselves to be leading the medal count and it's likely to stay that way.

The U.S., virtually alone among nations, counts total medals won, while China, like the rest of the world focuses on golds. So for now, both can declare victory

"I think China will win the golds and the US will win the overall medal count and it will be a nice compromise, leaving everyone feeling good about the Olympics and both nations able to say they won," says Terry Rhoads, of Zou Marketing, a Shanghai-based sports consultancy.

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So what do y'all think? Overall total or most golds?

I have always looked at total medals as the measure of most overall success.

Currently:
USA - 54 (16g, 16s, 22b)
China - 47 (27g, 13s, 7b)

I'd like to use golds as a tie-breaker.

China has won gold in a lot of events we just don't care about. Weightlifting, badminton, shooting, archery. In those 4 sports, they have 25 medals, including 15 gold. Yeah, great for them, but who gives a flip about those sports? And in the sports we do care about, well, they'll just cheat to beat the US(see women's gymnastics).

China will likely end up with the most gold medals, but the US will close the gap and the US will win the overall total.

[This message has been edited by BuffyEmu (edited 8/16/2008 2:59p).]

Let every country decide for itself...it's not like "winning" the Olympics is an official stat. In the end, individual performances are what's remembered. No one is going to care about the medal count 20 years from now, but they will remember Michael Phelps.

However IMO, total medal count is good unless the disparity is too great. If China continues on with a 50% gold lead it's hard to say we did better unless we completely blow them away in the total count. Same goes the other way...in 04 the US had only 4 more golds but like 40 more medals than China. Had we been slightly beaten in the gold count, no way one could say they "won" when they had practically half the medals we did.

I'd lean toward overall medal count, but I agree with the above post that if the gold count is a wide gap, then I tend to favor that one. So at this point, China's looks a little better. However, I also agree with Buffy that China has been racking up a lot of their golds in sports I don't give a rats ass about - I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Obviously Russia/USSR has been a huge competitor of the U.S. for quite some time. I have been surprised with their performance so far. Maybe their best events are still to come, but as of today, they only have 21 total medals.

They have recently finished 2nd to the U.S. in the overall medal count. Their past three totals have been 92, 88, and 63. I'm not sure they will even come close to those numbers unless they really come on strong.

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China has won gold in a lot of events we just don't care about. Weightlifting, badminton, shooting, archery. In those 4 sports, they have 25 medals, including 15 gold. Yeah, great for them, but who gives a flip about those sports?

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So because WE don't care about certain sports that others excel at, you're saying we should just dismiss those as unimportant? Did you ever consider that other countries might not give a flip about certain sports that we care about?

Even though it does not benefit us, the number of gold medals has always been taken over the total medal count. Unfortunately, we are behind the Chinese in that ranking.

As for "caring" more for some sports over the others, do we really care more about Fencing, Taekwondo, Field Hockey and Judo over Table Tennis, Badminton, Weight Lifting and Diving?

IOC should really take a long hard look at some sports and determine whether those should be a part of the Games.

We should make up some ground in VBall (should be 4 golds), BBall(2 more gold), Softball (1 gold), and Track (? gold(s))

I read we're not going to be as dominant as usual in track...looking like that prediction is holding true seeing some of the early performances.

What about a female runners?

You have to remember that a country always gets a boost in total medals when they are hosting the Olympics.

The U.S., for example, won only 13 medals at the 1998 Nagano Winter Olympics, but then hauled in 34 at Salt Lake City four years later.

China is bound to take in a record haul this year.

[This message has been edited by S.S.Aggie (edited 8/17/2008 2:48p).]

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In those 4 sports, they have 25 medals, including 15 gold. Yeah, great for them, but who gives a flip about those sports? And in the sports we do care about, well, they'll just cheat to beat the US(see women's gymnastics).

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Yeah... Like Swimming.

31 of our 65 medals are in swimming. Of course China has 3, and was all but ridden with scandal and cheating.

We are 16 Gold behind, but plenty of HW to still be handed out. Track & F/ Athletics is just beginning.

They should come out with a point system. You get XX points for gold, XX points for silver, and XX points for bronze. Then whoever has the most points wins. That takes into account overall medals & rewards the team with the most golds.

But since that isn't going to happen, I still feel overall medal count is the best way to go. Receiving a medal in the olympics is rediculously hard in itself, and coming 3rd in the world is certainly something that shouldn't go unrewarded.

China has won something like 5 golds in the 125 lb mens weightlifting. How many 125 lb men does the US even have? Much less that weight lift. They have something like a billion men to choose from that could fit that description. Some events just aren't fair.

Well, you could say the same thing comparing the US to 99% of the other countries out there.

It's just not fair that the Bahamas can't compete with us in basketball. They don't have nearly enough tall black guys to choose from.

Isn't the supposed reason they are getting rid of baseball and softball is that the US dominates and most other countries don't have a chance. At least that's what I heard. So, under the same logic, let's get rid of weightlifting, ping-pong, badminton and diving.

Heck, if there is a chance that you might play it at a family reunion or backyard bbq, it doesn't belong in the Olympics.

Maybe someone can do a rundown on what medals have yet to be won, and what the US chances are in each event?

i.e.,
Softball - Extremely likely to win gold.
Men's Handball - No medal.

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Isn't the supposed reason they are getting rid of baseball and softball is that the US dominates and most other countries don't have a chance.

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The US hasn't dominated baseball. I think the biggest reason baseball is getting tanked is that they've been unsuccessful in getting the best in the world there. I think that reason is killing olympic boxing too, although it's not going away anytime soon as an olympic event.

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The US hasn't dominated baseball. I think the biggest reason baseball is getting tanked is that they've been unsuccessful in getting the best in the world there. I think that reason is killing olympic boxing too, although it's not going away anytime soon as an olympic event.

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I agree, thats the same thing I've been hearing. As much I can't stand obscure sports that other countries do well in, I at least respect it. But I think its a joke that they are taking baseball and softball away (two sports that have become very international) but leaving badminton or table tennis.

exactly.

aggie kid -

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5949802.html

This is about the best I've seen so far. It gives a comparison of China and the US for the rest of the olympics.

[This message has been edited by WelchAg (edited 8/18/2008 2:05p).]

Baseball was scrapped because the Brits were jealous it was a sport while rugby and cricket weren't. If Chicago or Tokyo gets the Olympics in 2016, baseball will be back.

Losing baseball hurts Cuba more than US.

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/The-REAL-Olympic-medal-count?urn=oly,101537

Controversial article about China's advantage in the "judged events" at the Olympics.

personally i think whoever wins the most gold is the true medal count winner who cares if we have the most second and third place

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personally i think whoever wins the most gold is the true medal count winner who cares if we have the most second and third place

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I'd agree but then why give silver and bronze. If gold is the only marker that matters it should be the only marker given.

I think Gold is the most important. I equate it to coaching my daughter's volleyball and basketball teams. Getting a trophy for second and third is great and shows accomplishment for a great season, it doesn't equate to a championship. China is kicking our ass.

To say that they are winning in events we don't care about may be true, but I would say we are also winning in some events they don't care about.

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China is kicking our ass.

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China also engages in state sponsored cheating (ala east germany and the ussr).

The IOC has less teeth than the UN when it comes to actually doing anything. Any nation can engage in state sponsored cheating, deny it, and the IOC is likely to do nothing about it.

That said, maybe we should realize that we are competing against countries/cultures that value deception, and either take that into account when we decry our performance or cheat ourselves.

At least we now have another rival. It kind of got boring after the USSR broke up.

I'm not saying there isn't a reason they are beating us: state sponsered programs, age cheating, etc. However, what the hell has happened to our womens swim team? Our diving sucks. We didn't even have a finalist in the men's long jump, high jump, or triple jump.

There are at least 6 events where we should gold medal in, and thats not including any track and field sports. (We should get quite a few in the relays)

Considering how China has pretty much put everything they had into these olympics, I think we still win the overall medal count and gain alot of ground on the gold medals. Not too bad imo.

If we approached the olympics like china does, we would smother them.

Of course that would go against everything we value in our country.

Athletes basically kidnapped from their homes as toddlers; training and only training 18 hours day, every day of their life; engaging in state sponsored cover ups; etc.

Considering how little value they put on their own people, one shudders to think what kind of experimentation is going with these athletes.

[This message has been edited by Vince Noir (edited 8/20/2008 1:26p).]

It's not just the Chinese athletes. Even the volunteers in the opening ceremonies complained about having to practice 12+ hours a day in the scorching heat.

gold count should win over the overall count...

but probably the fairest way is to do it like:
gold: 3 pts
silver: 2 pts
bronze: 1 pt

USA: 29 G, 34 S, 32 B
China: 46 G, 15 S, 22 B

USA: 187 pts
China: 190 pts

China barely has the lead.....