I'm sure some of you will think I'm being too negative....

But Kim Brackin at Texas just signed another superb signing class.

http://www.texassports.com/sports/w-swim/spec-rel/111708aar.html

Unless something special happens with OUR signing classes - our reign as women's Big 12 champion will certainly end in 2009. Wilkinson and Heiss will be back but we lose most of the great 2004 signing class.

Brackins signed 3 breaststrokers - the fastest is 1:00.66 and the slowest is 1:03. One 1:58 IMer. 54 backstroker and 54 flyer. Two Trials qualifiers.

Spindrift Beck from Dallas is perhaps the star. A superb breaststroker - national high school record holder. About Alia's speed - but still in high school.

oh man i was wondering if there had been any bad news in swimming lately. thanks Spicewood!

good call smarterthanyou

Unlike many other sports - where teamwork, strategy, etc. are huge success factors, swimming is about talent and speed measured with electronic stopwatches.

If you guys don't think Texas is recruiting incredible talent you are ignoring reality.

I'm a huge Bultman fan - but Brackin is recruiting girls that as seniors in high school are about as fast as many of our fastest swimmers. Brackin is getting her commits during the early signing period. Just like Mack Brown did.

We lose Marshall, Aljan, Hansen, and Jasek after this year. We get back Heiss and Wilkinson. But we only have Alia, Neal, and Hain for one more year.

Our early signing class has a 4:55 500 swimmer - that's a very solid time. We signed two Canadians - one looks like a very good flyer. I can't find recent times for the other. Another recruit didn't final at Regionals in her two events.

I do not understand how the team that finished 4th at NCAAs isn't getting Trials-caliber swimmers to sign with us....

The other Canadian is a 1:02.2 long course backstroker

I hope Christine recruited Elizabeth in NYC.

http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/19635.asp?q=U.S.%20Olympians%20Nathan%20Adrian,%20Elizabeth%20Beisel,%20Christine%20Marshall%20at%20the%20Golden%20Goggles

http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/DesktopModules/BioViewManaged.aspx?personid=07f4d985-95ef-4e5f-a14e-fb25c8426300&TabId=388&Mid=597



[This message has been edited by bogustrumper (edited 11/20/2008 3:44p).]

Here's the official list of women signees posted on the A&M site:

Liz Nelson Fr. The Woodlands, Tex (College Park)
Tess Simpson Fr. Ingleside, Ont. (Cornwall)
Meagan Hairston Fr. Plano, Tex (Plano West)
Kendra Chernoff Fr. Saskatoon, Sask., Canada (Holy Cross)
Allyson Sweeney Fr. Snellville, Ga. (Brookwood)
Maureen McLaine Fr. Plano, Tex (Plano West)
Jaclin Rehring Fr. Lucas, Tex (Allen)

Allyson Sweeney is a former Austin TXLA swimmer that moved to Georgia in 2007. She is a very fast swimmer - with very fast swimmer siblings. Excellent recruit!

Maybe Jay can recruit her brother - Conor - who swam 4:45 in the 500 as a freshman in 2007. Looks like he swam a 4:38 this year already.

Wow that is a fast young swimmer if he's swimming sub 4:40 500s.

I just saw Dax swim last weekend and was curious where he was going - but looks like he'll be wearing burnt orange next year. I sure hope Jay can get some quality guys.

I also saw Dax race last weekend in CS at the Aggieland invitational. He swam 1:40 in the 200. He raced his brother Kerrington in the 100. Dax won...Kerrington swam 21.1 in the 50 (but he swam 20.79 a week earlier). Both of them are great racers. Never have a bad swim and they are warriors in the pool.

I hear that Dax has already visited Auburn.

Saw this posted on CollegeSwimming.com:

6-star - Spindrift Beck, Dallas, TX
5-star - Jessica Guro, Bethlehem, PA
5-star - Laura Sogar, Providence, RI
5-star - Leah Reinhardt, Louisville, KY
5-star - Caroline McElhany, Austin (Westlake), TX - graduating a year early
4-star - Lauren Norberg, Ithaca, NY
4-star - Lindsey Norberg, Ithaca, NY
3-star - Bethany Adams, Baltimore, MD
3-star - Kelsey Amundsen, The Woodlands, TX

And that is after having lost a commitment from 6-star Mary Beck.

Individual star-rankings:

http://www.takeyourmarks.com/swm660?womens&PHPSESSID=7318e91d0af27404d5c3ab1b51c3c592

we need some 6 star foobtall recruits

The fact that you can even say that a women's swimming coach is anything like Mack Brown is retarded... if you hate the aggies so much spicewood why dont you go post on a Texas board

favre - are you an idiot? You're a rookie. If you'd been here for a few years you would know I am a huge Aggie swimming fan.

I am not as forgiving as some - I'll admit.

Kim Brackin is doing what Mack Brown does best - recruit. She has two back to back recruiting classes that are superb. Look at the athletes. Swimming isn't like football - the speed of these swimmers isn't arguable.

I want A&M to become a perennial top 5 team. You do that by recruiting - then developing them.

I can only evaluate this from where I sit - and it looks like we aren't getting the talent Brackin is getting right now. We out-recruited Jill Sterkel - Texas' predecessor. Bultman (and Duchac) clearly do a superb job developing the girls. I'd like to see what he can do with a few Olympic trials finalists.

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 11/24/2008 8:51a).]

coach bultman's assistant is named duchac. i guess the first 4 letters of her name and a negative attitude are what qualifies you as a huge fan.

in other news, triin aljand is incredible. her ncaa record might have to wait for a few months but today she swam a 100 free time that would have won ncaas, and it's november. bultman and 'duchon' are doing a heck of a job in my book.

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if you hate the aggies so much spicewood why dont you go post on a Texas board

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haha thats funny

Spice i dont think most people question that you are an aggie fan, but you do tend to always bring up the most negative stuff (usually in reference to t.u)

quote:

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If you guys don't think Texas is recruiting incredible talent you are ignoring reality.

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Nobody is ignoring reality. Texas is a premier institution, athletically and academicall (much as i hate to admit it) so why shouldnt they be at the top in recruiting? I dont expect anything less from them. Recruiting classes almost always come in cycles.

Example: A&M women had less than stellar recruits come in in 2004-2005, and then they land the studs in '06, and a solid '07 class. Texas on the other hand, graduates there stud class in '05-'06, and struggles for the next three years, until bam, they bring in the studs this year. Its very difficult to bring in the #1 recruiting class year after year.

The cycling of recruiting is what makes the development of talent so important. The fact that Bultman and DUCHAC can bring in girls that are very good (Triin, Julia, Kristen) and turn them into National Championship caliber athletes, speaks volumes for the program. Sure Texas can bring in Olympic Trials finalists, but if A&M brings in slightly lower caliber athletes now, develop them into the "studs", and then in a few years they recruit the studs, we will be ahead of t.u once again.

I think recruiting is important, dont get me wrong, but the development of swimmers is far more valuable to a program in the long run.

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favre - are you an idiot? You're a rookie.

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Dont worry favre, Spice thinks that since he has been a TexAgs poster for so much longer than everyone else, he automatically knows more about everything (swimming in particular) than everyone else who posts on the board

Wow...you guys are harsh...

Not much credit is ever given to the senior classes from last year but looking at the results from this weekend, it is evident that the Aggies lost a lot of depth on both the men's and women's teams when they left. While the current senior class is the strongest Aggie senior class ever on the women's side, last year's seniors were hardly "less than stellar".

Did the men sign any recruits in the early signing period? None are listed on the website.

I realize that came off a tad harsher than I intended. I did not mean to discredit the seniors last year, so much as I meant to say how awesome the seniors this year are. So my "less than stellar" description was mostly meant in comparison to the recruiting class that followed (this years seniors). My apologies.

And yes the Aggie men are definitely feeling the losses of Gardner & Jacobo, especially on those medley relays. Snowden had an impressive 200Breast this weekend, though he's still not where Alejandro was...yet

I corrected the spelling of Duchac's name. Definitely bad on my part.

I think some here want to treat swimming as a boutique sport and all the words should be kind and gentle. I guess I'm not that way. If you want to say the men's team was really good this weekend - OK.

Please give me a reason why A&M should not be top 5 or at worst top 15 in both men's and women's swimming on a continuous basis. Bultman grew us over 7 years to 4th. We have outstanding facilities (when they measured correctly), we're located close to some of the fastest swimmers in the nation, we have the same number of scholarships to offer as Stanford, Cal, and Texas. We KNOW Bultman can develop swimmers. I just want to see him develop a Kathleen Hersey (for example) and put a few more Aggies in Olympic finals and on the medal stand.

Aljan is amazing. Her relay splits (see her 100 fly split) were just as amazing as her other swims. The girls swam very very well this weekend.

What it comes down to is recruiting power. I've heard we lost around three top-caliber recruits to Auburn. With Richard Quick there, it's hard to say anything but "dang! We did the best we could". And this isn't the first year we've lost a lot of recruits to Auburn. It's not like Bultman isn't trying to recruit the top girls. He's up against a pretty big barrier. First and foremost, A&M hasn't been a perennial top 10 team. Before the 2003-04 season, A&M's top finish at the NCAA's was an 18th place in 1995. In 2004, we placed 16 and we've been climbing ever since with a 14th in 2005, 11th in 2006, 8th in 2007 and 4th in 2008. Yes the program has had a meteoric rise in the swimming world, but it takes HISTORY to pull the top recruits year after year. We've not even won a NCAA championship. Georgia, Texas, Auburn and Stanford have. Give it some time. If Bultman continues to keep the team in the top 10 for another five years or so, he'll have the stature and word of mouth credit that programs like Stanford, Cal, Georgia and Auburn and Texas have. I'm as frustrated that we can't pull recruits as anyone else, but we're all just gonna have to be patient.

How much damage was done to the men's program when BB didn't initially back it?

WAggie - I agree.

quote:

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If you want to say the men's team was really good this weekend - OK.

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i must be blind. when was this EVER said? they were FAR FROM "really good" thats for sure, but, as has been discussed MANY times all over this board, who honestly expects them to be "really good" during this part of the season? That being said, they were definitely better than they have been so far this year (pretty much across the board)

bogus - NO (tho i know Spice disagrees with me wholeheartedly)

None?

What is different about our two coaches?


Is it just a lot harder for the men's program?

I admit, I really don't understand it all but if it were me I would rather compete regularly than just be in "Resse's program."

bogus - the difference isn't Nash vs. Holmes. When Byrne replaced Nash with Holmes he offered Holmes just a 1 year contract. That made it VERY difficult for Holmes to recruit - since an athlete has a legitimate concern whether or not the coach recruiting him will be around for long.

Byrne was stupid enough to say something like "I'm happy to give Jay Holmes the chance...." which just wreaks of uncertainty.

As for swimming for us vs. Eddie. I agree 100%. Why would a 1:39 200 freestyler want to be one of 10-12 that fast at Texas and swim on the C relay? For some crazy reason plenty apparently want to. They must all be walkons because Eddie has 9.9 scholarships just like we do. Cheap in-state tuition makes it easy for many to afford. Eddie has ZERO foreign swimmers though - which means he can spread the money around a bit easier.

The best comparison I can think of for our recruiting on the men's side is like NC State in Basketball going up against the power and history of Duke and UNC. The wolfpack has a good team and occassionally makes some noise in the tournament, but any player would rather sit the bench under coach K or Roy Williams than start for whoever the NC State coach is. The difference in the comparison is that a 1:39 swimmer still gets to compete (even if it's on the c relay) where a basketball player might not see the floor.

Of my friends that swam at Texas there is a mix of highly recruited guys who didn't cut it and retired after a couple years and others who worked their ass off and scored at ncaa's. On the other hand, my friends at A&M there were still the guys that quit after a couople years, but the individual scorers at nc's are few and far between. Bottom line is that in swimming everyone gets a chance, and at UT there is a history of developing success for those who make it. For most top recruits, Eddie has a slam dunk no brainer.

Great post H2OPoloAg02!

I agree with your basketball analogy. The reason kids decide to swim at Texas and perhaps give up opportunities to be a stud on another team is because of Eddie Reese. He is not only a great coach but he also has an eye for finding talent in weird places. He knows what makes a good swimmer and can see signs of these attributes in the early stages of an athletes development. Also, if you have ever had the opportunity to talk with the man, you will notice he has an aura that radiates through his tacky jokes and genuinely kind demeanor that attracts everyone to him. Everyone loves him! Not to mention that those walk-ons have approval from Eddie. Not anyone can swim at Texas. It is a very small group.

I love Texas A&M Swimming & Diving but I am a little concerned with their recruiting performance in the past couple of years. Texas is a great school to compete at, but they only have 9 athletes from the state of Texas on their roster, and with the size of competitive swimming being so big in Texas, A&M should be able to find good recruits in Texas. The problem is A&M is not only losing to Texas in recruiting, but also to schools like LSU, SMU, TCU, Missouri, etc.

Now I do not know a whole lot about Jay or Doug's approach to recruiting, so I cannot say if that is the problem, but I do think that the style of training may hurt their chances
to sign kids early (when there is a larger pool of kids to recruit from and when most of the very talented swimmers sign). Believe it or not, H.S. swimmers are showing up to invites like the Art Adamson Invite and the Texas Invite... which school do you think these kids would want to go to? And yes, I know that's the way it is at A&M (to taper for conference and nothing else) but how can you recruit well when you put out a generally bad to mediocre product for during most of the season?

A&M has the resources to compete with the top 10 schools at NCAAs, and I do not see them doing that with the team they have this year. I hope this year' recruiting class will be stronger than years past and that we can get both A&M Women and Men's programs in the top 5 at NCAAs.

The reason swimmers are willing to play second fiddle at Texas rather than being a star somewhere else is because they want to train with the best. It's not just the guys who swim for UT. It's the guys who swim for Longhorn Aquatics like Aaron Peirsol, Brendan Hansen, Ian Crocker, etc. The chance to train with bona fide Olympic gold medalists under an Olympic coach is a bigger deal for guys who want to be professional swimmers than being on the #1 relay team for the NCAAs.

Bassale - I agree with the first part of your statement. But someone on the B or C relay at Texas is not fast enough to make money swimming. Texas probably has 10 guys or so that have a chance to be pros. But you gotta get to the Olympics, win a World Championship, or set a world record before Speedo will pay you to swim.

Dagny Knutson, the 16 yr. old superstar from North Dakota, could be the next US female superstar. She already beat Katie Hoff's 400 IM SCY record. She beat Janet Evans high school 500 free record. And Dagny went 1:53 in the 200 IM and 1:42 in the 200 free recently.

To the best of my knowledge, college swimmers are not allowed to train with post-collegians -- particularly those of the Olympic medalist variety. Pretty sure that's an NCAA violation.

LOB: I don't remember where I read this - but I believe post-collegian athletes can train in the same pool and at the same time as NCAA athletes. But they must not share lanes.

I have seen Texas practices where Peirsol and Crocker were training under Eddie with the Texas swimmers. Most of the male elite Longhorn Aquatics swimmers swim for Eddie and never trained with Randy or other TXLA coaches. Floswimming showed a Texas practice with Peirsol swimming right next to Texas kids.

I assume Alfredo (?) trained with Jay that way at A&M.