http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?id=4347419

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If there were no six-second delay, Tiger Woods would be the reason to invent it. Every network has been burned by having the on-course microphone open when he blocks one right into the cabbage and starts with the F-bombs. Once, at Doral, he unleashed a string of swear words at a photographer that would've made Artie Lange blush, and then snarled, "'The next time a photographer shoots a [expletive] picture, I'm going to break his [expletive] neck!"

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I can still remember the 1997 Masters -- arguably the most important golf tournament ever played. Woods, then 21, was playing the 15th hole on Sunday. He had just hit a fairway wood out of the rough and was watching it. A young boy came up from behind just to touch him -- just to pat the back of this amazing new superhero. That's when Tiger pulled the club way back over his head and slammed it down, nearly braining the kid he couldn't see behind him. And this was with a huge lead.

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But this punk act on the golf course has got to stop. If it were my son, I'd tell him the same thing: "Either behave or get off the course."

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What do you think?

agree.

Competitive fire ok.
Nobody wants to to see the slamming clubs or cursing.

Agree, as well. But Tiger will forever get a pass.
I had a friend that played against Tiger on the junior circuit and said he was a big ass. Always talking crap while guys were preparing to hit/putt.

[This message has been edited by cmac98 (edited 7/22/2009 12:09p).]

i like fake tiger a lot more than real tiger

I think it's embarrassing and disrespectful, but I don't see it changing.

There is one thing he used to do that he's improved upon in my book - showing displeasure when he misses a long putt. I remember when he was younger we were constantly treated to him grabbing the bridge of his nose and closing his eyes in disappointment, shocked that his 40 foot putt didn't drop. It's one thing to do it over a 12 footer you had a legit chance at, but he would frequenty do it over much longer putts to where it was kind of ridiculous.

[This message has been edited by Bob the Enzyte Guy (edited 7/22/2009 5:27p).]

Eh, people make too much of a big deal about it. The fact is, he is more competitive than anyone else out there and while it comes out in negative ways, it's the reason he wins. Plain and simple.

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The fact is, he is more competitive than anyone else out there...

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Who are you to make this judgement? Throwing your clubs and cussing people out definitely does not mean you are "more competitive" than the next guy. Surely there are others players on the PGA tour that want to win just as much as Tiger, they are just much more mature about it when things don't go there way.

[This message has been edited by S.S.Aggie (edited 7/23/2009 12:33p).]

I always thought the "he's more competitive so it's OK" was one of the biggest copouts for this kind of behavior. Just because you're physically better than the other players and are capable of focusing like no one else doesn't give you license for acting like a child when you hit a bad shot. Tiger isn't the only super-competitive player the PGA has ever seen. The behavior is embarrassing, and that kind of excuse would be embarrassing.

[This message has been edited by Bob the Enzyte Guy (edited 7/23/2009 12:31p).]

Do either of you dispute that he's the most competitive? I think if you watch the PGA tour every week, it's pretty obvious that Tiger is the most competitive. Jordan was too. They won more than anyone else. Are either of those guys possessing magical skills that make them hit the ball or shoot the ball in a way that no one else can? No. People hit farther than Tiger. People were just as athletic as MJ. But no one was/is more competitive than those two.

And why is it ok for every other athlete in other sports to show that kind of fire but not Tiger? Because golf is a game played by guys wearing slacks? Who knows, maybe that is a valid argument, but to me, I believe golf is a sport just like any other, and if it's ok for a basketball or football player, it's ok for Tiger. I understand the other side of that coin, but don't agree with it.

There are a number of things about golf that are unlike other sports, and one of the primary differences is the etiquette involved with the game. It isn't called a "gentleman's" game for nothing.

You think Tiger is more competitive than Jack? Golf is more than who hits it the furthest. Tiger's dominance is really driven by his skill is around the greens, and it ain't because he wants the ball to go in the hole more than anyone else out there. There are plenty of players, past and present, that want it just as badly as he does - it's just they couldn't execute it as well.

[This message has been edited by Bob the Enzyte Guy (edited 7/23/2009 12:53p).]

Talented =/= Competitive

I could be REALLY competitive (inclined to compete) but lose every time I play because maybe I'm just not that good. I don't believe that winning automatically implies that someone has a more competitive nature.

[This message has been edited by S.S.Aggie (edited 7/23/2009 12:50p).]

Somebody tell Larry Bird that MJ was a better basketball player because he wanted to win more than Bird.

So are y'all saying there are other golfers out there right now who want it more than Tiger? Who? I disagree. Why is Tiger so dominant? Because his life is consumed with being the best of all time, so over his life, he has worked harder, grinded more, etc. and gotten to this point. Right? I'd argue that means he wants it more.

And I understand the "gentleman's game" arguement and think it's a valid arguement. I just agree to disagree with you on how it relates to Tiger in regards to whether or not his actions are inappropriate.

[This message has been edited by watty (edited 7/23/2009 12:58p).]

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Somebody tell Larry Bird that MJ was a better basketball player because he wanted to win more than Bird.

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Again, I'd say that yes, MJ did want it more. Everyone on Dream Team '92 seemed to be in awe of how hard Jordan worked. Even his peers seem to acknowledge that he wanted it more. Why is it so ridiculous to assume that is correct?

I never said there is someone who wants it more than Tiger, but there are players that want it just as badly. As far as wanting it badly combined with putting in the time/effort, take Vijay Singh as an example. No one works on his game more than Vijay, but he must only have 1/7 the competive nature as Tiger because he only has 2 majors.

edit: make that more than 1/3 as competitive as Tiger, I forgot about one of his PGA Championships.

[This message has been edited by Bob the Enzyte Guy (edited 7/23/2009 1:13p).]

I'd say you don't know much about Larry Bird is what I'd say.

and i'd say that you are pretending to know a lot about MJ and Tiger when you probably just watch them on TV like the rest of us uneducated folk...

[This message has been edited by S.S.Aggie (edited 7/23/2009 1:13p).]

I didn't say it's a straight correlation (regarding your 1/7 example). Who knows, maybe others do want it as bad. Or maybe Vijay just loves golf and Tiger is more of the tunnel vision towards his goals type of guy. You're right, I can't say with 100% certainty. But my opinions remain as stated.

As for Bird, again, neither of us can claim 100 knowledge here with any authority. Obviously Jordan was more talented than Bird. But I don't even think they're the best comparison, since Bird's career was winding down while Jordan's was gearing up. Maybe Clyde Drexler though? Same type of player as Jordan, same body (roughly). Why did Jordan become Jordan and Drexler just another guy who Jordan beat? Who knows... but I'd say Jordan wanted it more would be one reason.

Anyway on a separate note, I've seen your name on texags some but don't know anything about you, but you must like golf to be on this thread. You play much? What part of the state are you in?

Perhaps we can simply come up with a thorough test of one's competitiveness and then we wouldn't even have a need to play the games. I always thought some of these things involved physical skill.

SS- You CAN get to know a pretty good amount about these guys at least in terms of how driven they are, how competitive they are, etc. It's not like I'm saying things that for the most part aren't repeated by their fellow peers.

I mean, if Charles Barkley says MJ is the most competitive guy he's ever seen, is that not pretty good info? Same thing if a PGA pro like Furyk says it about Tiger. It's not like I'm just making this stuff up. There are people with inside knowledge who share my sentiments.

Well competitiveness IS part of it. The competing is just as important as the playing, I think. It's worth talking about, right?

You sound like you think talent is far and away more important. Who knows... But I think desire/competitiveness plays a huge role.

Just to do more examples (and sticking in the NBA), why is Kobe considered a great defender but Vince Carter is considered pathetic and lazy? Seems Kobe is more driven to do it and excel at it. Seems he wants it more. Seems they are identical physically (more or less). Something has to cause that gap. It's not luck.

Just like it's not luck that Tiger keeps winning more than the others. All those guys are capable of driving the ball 300 yards, of sticking an 8 iron close, or of sinking a 20 footer. So why does Tiger win so freaking much?

[This message has been edited by watty (edited 7/23/2009 1:19p).]

I'll just redirect this back to the original topic...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Y1T761x5I&feature=related

I live in Plano and am defintely a golf nut. From March-August, I get out to play at least once a week. The rest of the year is hit and miss - probably average about once every 3 weeks; Aggie football tends to push some of my golf off the calendar and then the winter weather restricts it some once football is wrapping up. I've got 2 young kids so I end up having to hobby-juggle. I also play at crack-thirty in the morning so I can get a quick round in and get back home.

Anyway, my old man was always a big golfer and taught me the game - started playing when I was about 5. He cut down a 5 iron and a putter and would take be out to the 9 hole company course that EDS used to have.

Other sports, namely baseball, always kept me from dedicating a lot of time to golf when I was a kid, but once I left for college and quit playing most everythign else, I started playing much more regularly and have ever since. I tend to gravitate between being a 5-7 handicap, partly depending on how frequently I'm playing.


[This message has been edited by Bob the Enzyte Guy (edited 7/23/2009 1:30p).]

Cool... I always liked it but have become obsessed in the last few months. Been improving and am down to a 21 handicap but still haven't broken 90. Am getting close though.

Live in Temple so there's not any good golf nearby except for Salado but we try to play about once a week.

And fwiw, part of the reason Tiger's behavior gets under my skin is that the proper etiquette of the game was one of my old man's sticking points when teaching me as a kid. So when I see an outburst, I jsut get the feeling he doesn't respect the game and his fellow players as much as he should. Anybody acting like that, whether they are a professional on tv or someone I'm playing a round with, pisses me off.

[This message has been edited by Bob the Enzyte Guy (edited 7/23/2009 1:33p).]

Good luck with your game. One of the things I found while I was learning the game was that it wasn't an equally gradual improvement process - you'd sort of hit a tier, stay around there for awhile while slowly getting better but maybe it didn't show up clearly in your scores, and then you'd make another breakthrough. When you break 90 the first time, you'll find yourself doing it with an 87 or something like that. I still remember the first time I broke 90 even though it's been 20+ years. Funny thing is I don't remember the first time I broke 80.

[This message has been edited by Bob the Enzyte Guy (edited 7/23/2009 1:41p).]

Ok, so i get that golf, especially at Tiger's level, takes skills, dedication, etc. But any golfer talking trash, screaming and yelling, talking tough is like a figure skater or synchronized swimmer talking trash.

Require awesome skills and hard training? YES. Make you a certifiable tough guy? Not even close.

No one, Tiger included, is as competitive as Ben Hogan. Quite simply, the greatest golfer ever. I have NEVER heard of Hogan slamming a club or dropping an F-bomb. The Jordan analogy is a good one, but do you ever remember Jordan slamming a ball down after getting a bad call or missing a jump shot? No.

Don't get me wrong - I love Tiger. I watch golf in this order: about an hour of non-Tiger tourneys, 2-3 hours of non-Tiger majors, 4-5 hours of Tiger tourneys, as much as possible of Tiger majors. I am not conceited enough to say "he has to clean it up to be one of the greats". He is that regardless. But as a fan of his and a fan of the game, it makes me sad that he thinks it's necessary.

And watty - run away. Run away fast. It'll suck up your life

BTW, I'm a 13 which in the grand scheme of things means I suck ass. But in the smaller scheme means I can play and have fun with just about anyone.

That's because Ben Hogan went home and kicked his dog instead.

I remember when Tiger snap hooked his tee shot into the Pacific Ocean at Pebble Beach a few years back and the sound guy must have been asleep because Tiger yelled out, "MotherEffing, Tiger!" and it was clear as day on the telecast.

I thought it was funny. And if the worst thing Tiger ever does is cuss at bad shot every now then he'll be ahead of every other fakeass recordbreaking, steroid taking, bongsmoking, dogfighting jerk, bikeriding liar, Nino Brown wannbes that call themselves professional athletes at the top of their sports.


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"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."



[This message has been edited by TxAginAz (edited 8/8/2009 7:26p).]

Did anyone see the video montage after the British Open? They laid into him pretty heavy.

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Thanks for reminding us that this is a gentleman's game (While showing videos of TIger slamming his club

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Thanks for reminding us that Tiger didn't invent this game

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