this sweet 16 save coaches job in volleyball?
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this save coaches job volleyball?
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Last: 16 yr ago by Harry Dunne
don't think they were necessarily at risk.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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yawn
OlsenBurn, yes they were. Why are you such a huge volleyball apologist, first with Sarah and now with this? Do you have a kid on the team?
And to answer the OP, yes, this has more than likely saved their jobs.
And to answer the OP, yes, this has more than likely saved their jobs.
I can't imagine them getting fired now.
I am hesitant to say yes for a few reasons...
1. If it was already a "done deal" that this would be the last season I dont see BB as a person to tell them he made a mistake. I am NOT saying it is a done deal, I am merely alleuding to the fact it has been heard since last season.
2. The ability to win the big points and at critical times has not been there all year UNTIL this time. The fact that this is the best time for this to happen doesnt diminish the fact that the lack of execution and mental toughness talked about by Drumbeat in an earlier post is still there at times. And the mental toughness for the most part has come from seniors this year down the stretch...will it be there next year with an EXTREMELY young vb team to be put on the court in Big 12 play next year given our current roster and signees.
3. We play Texas...Forgetting the fact they are our "hated rival" they along with Nebraska are the benchmark for vb in the Big 12 along with up and coming Iowa State. IF we lose to t.u. convincingly it could show haw far apart the current programs are, a gap that has steadily increased over last 4-5 years and based upon committments for t.u. will continue for a long time.
I have no issue with the Corbelli's. But as Drumbeat said the movement toward a different style of player has been made years ago and teams like Standford, Penn State and Texas have gone one direction in style and we have gone another...it seems that the style of 3 of the top 4 seeds seems to be the right direction but maybe i am being just results oriented.
Regardless I hope that we beat the hell outta t.u. and then I think whatever I just wrote becomes a moot point
1. If it was already a "done deal" that this would be the last season I dont see BB as a person to tell them he made a mistake. I am NOT saying it is a done deal, I am merely alleuding to the fact it has been heard since last season.
2. The ability to win the big points and at critical times has not been there all year UNTIL this time. The fact that this is the best time for this to happen doesnt diminish the fact that the lack of execution and mental toughness talked about by Drumbeat in an earlier post is still there at times. And the mental toughness for the most part has come from seniors this year down the stretch...will it be there next year with an EXTREMELY young vb team to be put on the court in Big 12 play next year given our current roster and signees.
3. We play Texas...Forgetting the fact they are our "hated rival" they along with Nebraska are the benchmark for vb in the Big 12 along with up and coming Iowa State. IF we lose to t.u. convincingly it could show haw far apart the current programs are, a gap that has steadily increased over last 4-5 years and based upon committments for t.u. will continue for a long time.
I have no issue with the Corbelli's. But as Drumbeat said the movement toward a different style of player has been made years ago and teams like Standford, Penn State and Texas have gone one direction in style and we have gone another...it seems that the style of 3 of the top 4 seeds seems to be the right direction but maybe i am being just results oriented.
Regardless I hope that we beat the hell outta t.u. and then I think whatever I just wrote becomes a moot point
As usual nakedcrayon, nice post. I really want to be hesitant about it like you are. Because I don't think that this improbable run makes them better coaches.
The problem with a sport like volleyball is that the general public don't see things like this. The general public has no authority to judge a volleyball coach other than on the basis of wins and losses, and it's hard to fire a coach of a team in the Sweet 16 unless Sweet 16 is a regular thing (aka a school like Penn State, or Nebraska).
Does Bill Byrne have enough knowledge, or an adviser that does, about volleyball to recognize the stuff that drumbeat has posted?
I mean, in sports like football and basketball, there's enough people floating around that know enough about it, including the general public, to recognize if a coach sucks beyond Ws and Ls. I don't know if in volleyball it works the same.
My guess is that they bought one more year, and I think that would be fair.
The problem with a sport like volleyball is that the general public don't see things like this. The general public has no authority to judge a volleyball coach other than on the basis of wins and losses, and it's hard to fire a coach of a team in the Sweet 16 unless Sweet 16 is a regular thing (aka a school like Penn State, or Nebraska).
Does Bill Byrne have enough knowledge, or an adviser that does, about volleyball to recognize the stuff that drumbeat has posted?
I mean, in sports like football and basketball, there's enough people floating around that know enough about it, including the general public, to recognize if a coach sucks beyond Ws and Ls. I don't know if in volleyball it works the same.
My guess is that they bought one more year, and I think that would be fair.
quote:
Does Bill Byrne have enough knowledge, or an adviser that does, about volleyball to recognize the stuff that drumbeat has posted?
Bill Byrne is the guy who hired John Cook, the head coach at Nebraska.
Yes, the program was very good before Cook arrived, but it's hard to say that Cook was anything other than a tremendous hire. Cook has taken Nebraska volleyball to an even higher level.
That may or may not mean Byrne and others in the AD can recognize whether the Corbelli's can make this work or not longterm, but hard to argue that he didn't know what he was doing at Nebraska.
[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 12/7/2009 10:37p).]
Very true 2011. You've gotta wonder though if he had more of a support system at a place like Nebraska helping him make decisions. What were the circumstances of the hire, did the old coach retire and maybe offer assistance in hiring a replacement? But you're right, I forgot he was the AD at Nebraska, so maybe he does know more than I gave him credit for.
On the other hand, this made me think of something else. There are 3 parts to coaching: Training skills, managing games, and managing players' psyches and emotions (and at the college level, a 4th, which is recruiting quality talent). Which do we think the Corbelli's have failed at? I don't know enough to make a real opinion on this, but from what I've read by more knowledgable posters (OP, drumbeat), it seems like the biggest issues are managing the players (due to inconsistency) and managing games (due to the new type of play that some have alluded to). These seem like they could be the easiest for her to learn through seminars, clinics, etc. Are college coaches above these things? Can't teach an old dog new tricks? Maybe she can get better at these, send her to the Coach K camp or something.
Either way, I still think she bought another year. There's buzz around the program now, and unless you're going to bring in a bigger name coach to keep that going, I think there'd be more damage than good to letting her go.
On the other hand, it's pretty clear from what we're losing that there's going to be a regression next season, so will she be a lame duck coach, and is it better to off her now? I guess that's all up to Byrne to decide.
On the other hand, this made me think of something else. There are 3 parts to coaching: Training skills, managing games, and managing players' psyches and emotions (and at the college level, a 4th, which is recruiting quality talent). Which do we think the Corbelli's have failed at? I don't know enough to make a real opinion on this, but from what I've read by more knowledgable posters (OP, drumbeat), it seems like the biggest issues are managing the players (due to inconsistency) and managing games (due to the new type of play that some have alluded to). These seem like they could be the easiest for her to learn through seminars, clinics, etc. Are college coaches above these things? Can't teach an old dog new tricks? Maybe she can get better at these, send her to the Coach K camp or something.
Either way, I still think she bought another year. There's buzz around the program now, and unless you're going to bring in a bigger name coach to keep that going, I think there'd be more damage than good to letting her go.
On the other hand, it's pretty clear from what we're losing that there's going to be a regression next season, so will she be a lame duck coach, and is it better to off her now? I guess that's all up to Byrne to decide.
In my opinion, the results of this post season have bought the Corbelli's another year. I do think that next year will be incredibly tough for our volleyball program however and will tell us a lot about how good of coaches they really are. They will be very talent poor next year and it will take a lot of work just to finish in the top half of the conference. Baylor and Oklahoma will both be improved from this year, as well as Colorado and K-State (although Colorado still has quite a ways to go to be competitive, but Kritza was an outstanding hire by the Buffs)
To address the issues about Byrne, I do think he is very interested and aware of the volleyball program, but it would be a very bad move to fire the Corbellis coming off their best season in ~10 years. They have certainly under-achieved with the current crop of seniors making only one NCAA tournament, but it is yet to be seen what they will do this year (although I don't see them having much of a shot at advancing past Texas, and for the record I did predict them to get past Arizona and LSU in my bracket). To fire them now would send a big warning message to prospective incoming coaches that our expectations are way out of line. So even though I do think they will need replacing after next year, it would be very tough to imagine a scenario in them being dismissed this year unless some amazing coaching prospect is already lined up.
Also if I remember correctly (and maybe Husker can confirm or deny) Terry Pettit (the former Nebraska Volleyball Coach) basically hand-picked John Cook to be his replacement, and although Byrne was obviously at Nebraska when this happened I don't think he had all that much to do with the hiring process of John Cook.
In terms of the areas where the Corbellis have fallen short, I have addressed my opinion on this in many threads over the past few years. To summarize however, I think they are not getting the job done in recruiting and in preparation for matches. They have had a few decent classes over the past few years (the current seniors as well as the current sophomores were both highly ranked classes) but if you look at the recruiting strategy it is terrible. Last year's class had three middle blockers, leaving us with the problem this year of starting two freshman middle blockers. The current senior class has three outside hitters and we ran a strategy when they arrived that only called for two outsides. Of course you need bench players, but in order to run a decent program in any sport you have to balance out your recruiting so you don't have to replace a ton of talent all at once in any given position. Its one thing to expect ONE freshman to step in and play, but its completely different to rely on two or more freshman because all of the players in one position graduated at one time. Next year we will absolutely have to have a newcomer start at setter because we graduate two experienced setters and one DS/backup setter. All of this adds up to very poor recruiting, both in terms of individual talent and the ability to recognize needs and bring in players who can be developed before they are expected to step on the court and produce.
They also are coming up short in preparing the players mentally for matches. We generally can be competitive with all but the top handful of teams in the nation year in and year out, but every year we lose a number of matches to teams we should beat. Usually these are either road games at bottom tier teams or home games at closely matched teams within our same conference. These slip-ups are what have cost us a trip to the NCAA's the last few years and what nearly cost us a trip this year had we not caught Nebraska at home early in the season and pulled out a win over them. We are continually giving up matches when we have had 2-0 leads and let the other team come back to win 3-2. I realize that no team is perfect but the amount of times I have seen this happen under this coaching regime with all number of different players is very frustrating to me from a fan's perspective.
To address the issues about Byrne, I do think he is very interested and aware of the volleyball program, but it would be a very bad move to fire the Corbellis coming off their best season in ~10 years. They have certainly under-achieved with the current crop of seniors making only one NCAA tournament, but it is yet to be seen what they will do this year (although I don't see them having much of a shot at advancing past Texas, and for the record I did predict them to get past Arizona and LSU in my bracket). To fire them now would send a big warning message to prospective incoming coaches that our expectations are way out of line. So even though I do think they will need replacing after next year, it would be very tough to imagine a scenario in them being dismissed this year unless some amazing coaching prospect is already lined up.
Also if I remember correctly (and maybe Husker can confirm or deny) Terry Pettit (the former Nebraska Volleyball Coach) basically hand-picked John Cook to be his replacement, and although Byrne was obviously at Nebraska when this happened I don't think he had all that much to do with the hiring process of John Cook.
In terms of the areas where the Corbellis have fallen short, I have addressed my opinion on this in many threads over the past few years. To summarize however, I think they are not getting the job done in recruiting and in preparation for matches. They have had a few decent classes over the past few years (the current seniors as well as the current sophomores were both highly ranked classes) but if you look at the recruiting strategy it is terrible. Last year's class had three middle blockers, leaving us with the problem this year of starting two freshman middle blockers. The current senior class has three outside hitters and we ran a strategy when they arrived that only called for two outsides. Of course you need bench players, but in order to run a decent program in any sport you have to balance out your recruiting so you don't have to replace a ton of talent all at once in any given position. Its one thing to expect ONE freshman to step in and play, but its completely different to rely on two or more freshman because all of the players in one position graduated at one time. Next year we will absolutely have to have a newcomer start at setter because we graduate two experienced setters and one DS/backup setter. All of this adds up to very poor recruiting, both in terms of individual talent and the ability to recognize needs and bring in players who can be developed before they are expected to step on the court and produce.
They also are coming up short in preparing the players mentally for matches. We generally can be competitive with all but the top handful of teams in the nation year in and year out, but every year we lose a number of matches to teams we should beat. Usually these are either road games at bottom tier teams or home games at closely matched teams within our same conference. These slip-ups are what have cost us a trip to the NCAA's the last few years and what nearly cost us a trip this year had we not caught Nebraska at home early in the season and pulled out a win over them. We are continually giving up matches when we have had 2-0 leads and let the other team come back to win 3-2. I realize that no team is perfect but the amount of times I have seen this happen under this coaching regime with all number of different players is very frustrating to me from a fan's perspective.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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drumbeat, Pettit had pretty much everything to do with Cook's hiring. To Byrne's credit, he rubber-stamped it. Fortunately for NU volleyball it worked out better than Osborne's hand-picked successor. :-)
quote:
OlsenBurn, yes they were. Why are you such a huge volleyball apologist, first with Sarah and now with this? Do you have a kid on the team?
no kids on the team. I'm not the vball genius that several of you guys apparently are. my only interests in vball is Aggie vball. Just supporting the team as best I can. I feel like when it's time for LC to go the decision will be made by those that have that responsibility and they won't need my help. Until then, I'll support them as best I can
Here is my take - my daughter plays both high level club volleyball (Jr Olympic) and soccer (div 1/premier). I went to Texas.
I often complain about Texas' soccer program. For the most part, the volleyball and soccer girls are from the same group, same club mentality (vs high school sports like football) and the state of Texas is strong in both sports. My complaint about Texas is that if the volleyball program can be great, why can't the soccer program - that tells me they have the wrong coach.
A&M's complaint should be the same - your soccer program is consistently at the top of the conference - there is no reason volleyball shouldn't be as well - That's on the coach. The tournament results this year should not hide the fact that you guys are a ways away from elite. You guys should demand better.
I often complain about Texas' soccer program. For the most part, the volleyball and soccer girls are from the same group, same club mentality (vs high school sports like football) and the state of Texas is strong in both sports. My complaint about Texas is that if the volleyball program can be great, why can't the soccer program - that tells me they have the wrong coach.
A&M's complaint should be the same - your soccer program is consistently at the top of the conference - there is no reason volleyball shouldn't be as well - That's on the coach. The tournament results this year should not hide the fact that you guys are a ways away from elite. You guys should demand better.
^yep
how do we lose six players and only sign three?
quote:
My complaint about Texas is that if the volleyball program can be great, why can't the soccer program - that tells me they have the wrong coach.
t.u. should be great at EVERY sport. The texas athletic department brought $120.3 million in revenue in 2007-2008. That’s $32 million more than the second-place school in the Big 12 (Nebraska)
http://www.huskerlocker.com/blogs/view/bid/1374/i/the_troubling_gap_between_texasand_everyone_else
1. Its a school that's strong enough academically to be very attractive but not strong enough to keep them from getting kids in. Lets be honest, it is a great school academically...maybe even on par with Notre Dame, but Vince Young isn't getting into Notre Dame. In summary, good enough to get the smart kids and not too uppity to reject the dumb kids who happen to be great athletes.
2. It's in Austin, which is infinitely more attractive to most kids than most Big 12 cities and is the kind of city that kids from across the country would want to go to school at without their crazy uncle alum having to explain to them why "from the outside you can't understand it and from the inside you can't explain it" or whatever.
3. A tradition of excellence in just about every sport makes it easier to develop tradition in the few that don't have it (like women's soccer).
4. Again, they just have a lot more resources than just about anyone else.
There is no excuse for texas to EVER have ANY team out of the top 25. If a coach can't keep his/her team in the top 25 more often than out of it, then they are absolutely the wrong coach because it is a guarantee that someone else out there can.
Sir, please feel free to leave your Ag tag on the desk on your way out. We'll put your last check in the mail.
quote:
There is no excuse for texas to EVER have ANY team out of the top 25.
Sure there is, Harry. Stuff happens. It's very, very hard to be great all the time, even if you have 120whatever million in revenues.
It is hard to be great all of the time, but t.u. should be in the top 25 more often than they are not in every sport.
An Ag Tag doesn't mean you can't be realistic. I would like the Ags to win a NC in every sport, but the reality is that when we are better than t.u. in any sport, it is a big accomplishment for us. Acknowledging that they are a big power and that we are the underdog doesn't mean I need to revoke my former student status and it doesn't make me any less proud to be an Ag...nor does being a blind optimist make someone more of an Ag, although it is certainly your right to be so.
An Ag Tag doesn't mean you can't be realistic. I would like the Ags to win a NC in every sport, but the reality is that when we are better than t.u. in any sport, it is a big accomplishment for us. Acknowledging that they are a big power and that we are the underdog doesn't mean I need to revoke my former student status and it doesn't make me any less proud to be an Ag...nor does being a blind optimist make someone more of an Ag, although it is certainly your right to be so.
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