Just thought you swimmer fans would enjoy this.

My kid's high school swim/dive team had their annual pre-district dinner last night.

We had a guest speaker - Doug Russell - who beat Mark Spitz in 100 fly for the gold medal in 1968 in Mexico City. Because he beat Mark in fly, he also swam the fly leg of the medley relay (also a gold medal).

Russell is from Midland but lives in Austin now. Very interesting guy - entertaining to listen to. His stories about Spitz and Mexico City are nearly identical to what was written in last year's biography of Mark Spitz.

Russell lost nine straight times to Spitz in 100 fly in elite competition - always at the end because he was a sprinter and Spitz had better endurance. Russell trained a bit differently after Olympic Trials, and swam finals differently from prelims. He held back, against his own instincts, and outswam Spitz on the back half of the race to win. He also showed us video of the race from archived ABC footage - not to be found anywhere. In the medley relay Russell hit the pool two body lengths behind the East German, and finished two body lengths ahead.

Red/white/blue nylon briefs, no goggles, no underwater swimming, and superman style dives. Awesome vintage swimming footage.

It was a fun evening and I thought I'd share.

Great story! It is incredible to think how much the sport has changed and how far technology has taken us. The advent of suits changed swimming forever, but now that they've been restricted, it begs the question: what's next? Will some new technique, training style, or another piece of technology be the next catalyst??

In 1968, he also coached my wife's club team in Ft. Worth (she was 8 years old). She still remembers going to the airport with a bunch of her teammates to greet him after the olympics. Good stuff.

On blastoff's site, he's got an article talking about track starts, and he kinda goes through the history of the start. Watching the videos is enough to make any swim coach squirm.

Watching the medley relay was very interesting. Most swimmers of a certain vintage know how much some strokes have changed. That relay clearly showed that breaststroke by far has changed the most. Those guys of course swam "flat" with almost no glide. Elbows were wide and it looked to me like the pull and kick had a lot of overlap.

Backstroke - while on the surface - didn't look much different. They did the sideways flip turn and no underwater time off the walls.

Fly was not much different though they typically swam with bent elbows and they had a bit more undulation than they do today.

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or another piece of technology be the next catalyst??

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If you believe Gary Hall Sr. there will be new starting blocks that have track like push blocks and handles off the side.

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If you believe Gary Hall Sr. there will be new starting blocks that have track like push blocks and handles off the side.

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The push blocks already exist. They used them at the World Cup last year.

cool I never saw them. I still have some swims fromn the WC's on Tivo I'll have to go look for them.

If by WC's you mean world champs, I don't think they used them there. They were supposed to, but then there was some delay, so they didn't come into use until the World Cup.

I think they caused a bigger stink than most people realize, but were so overshadowed by the suits that people let it go.

believe it or not, they were supposed to use those blocks at the 08 trials and olympics, but because they weren't available to everyone the ngb's refused to allow it.

in my mind this is just a waste of time and money. if we learned anything from the suit fiasco it's that the swimming community values history more than performance. installing these blocks in even just the most high profile venues would cost way too much to justify the change.

records should be broken because athletes get faster. in fact, let's take one more step back and eliminate the breastroke dolphin kick.

I agree with the first 2 paragraphs.

The reason I'm ok with the breaststroke dolphin kick is because a lot of people did it, and it was sometimes hard to catch by officials, so you were essentially punishing the swimmers who followed the rules. I know I used to do it before the rule was in place, but only got caught once.

And it's so hard to judge a dolphin kick or not. Like in the 2004 Olympics, even with video replays they couldn't really decide if it was a dolphin kick or not.

Just what is the point of the new blocks anyway? Improve speed off the start by a few percent? It can't change reaction time.

Starting blocks are expensive as is. A Kiefer fiberglass block is over $1500 each. The reaction time plates cost more. FINA, USA-S, etc. don't need to do a single thing that makes the sport more expensive.

No joke. It's nearly impossible for a competition-grade pool to support itself financially as it is (see golden triangle in NC, one of the most successful clubs in the nation, but they're big time hurting financially).

What is AgBlastoff's website? I want to see the video of the starts

Wow! I feel like such a big deal!

I think he's referring to this article:

http://theswimmerscircle.com/2010/01/24/track-starts-the-almost-definitive-scientific-view/

[This message has been edited by AGBlastoff (edited 1/28/2010 2:48p).]

re: breaststroke dolphin

i know it's a tired argument, but is one dolphin easier to spot than two? there are several people out there doing more than one now and getting away with it.

using that logic; since it's hard to tell when a swimmer's head breaks the surface, we should move the underwater line to 16 meters.

Hall Sr. says they are coming up with a block with adjustable foot pads like track.

[This message has been edited by Beretta O/U (edited 1/28/2010 12:27p).]

I just don't see how the sport of swimming is better off with that block.

Apoc - I'm sure most believe by now as you do that they chose to allow the kick because it had been going on for some time and was very difficult to prevent. I have heard that Kitajima is one of the swimmers who is now messing around with a second kick - but I haven't seen any video to prove it.

I will say that I have seen several DQs on the 15M rule. So they do enforce that one.

i'm not arguing that it's unenforceable. plenty of people got caught with the dolphin kick as well.

I was wrong about the Kiefer blocks. The fiberglass ones (like they have in Austin) are $3000 each. Lesser models are $1500-$2000.

Spicewood,

I agree I don't think its good for the sport either.

Thanks AgBlastoff, great article! If they do change the block I'm sure the swimming community would just adjust to the change like they have through out history but I do agree having that block is a waste of time and money that is not readily available in this economy

The kick though is pretty hard to catch. The glare, bubbles, turbulence, etc. make it hard to see.

Even now the rule requires the swimmer to initiate the pull before the dolphin kick. Initiating the pull usually is judged when the hands separate. But how many judges actually could watch the hands, shift their eyes to the the feet, and judge that the kick was too early?

BTW - I have a hard time believing that starting the dolphin kick before the pull is an advantage. I suspect the rule is written so the stroke judge at least knows the sequence things are supposed to happen. An alternative rule could be one dolphin kick, one pull, and one breaststroke kick regardless of sequence. That might be a nightmare for a judge if the swimmers were all doing a different sequence.

Spice-I agree, it may be just an issue of at some point you have to define what is the proper stroke. There would be no advantage gained by swimming breaststroke in a butterfly event, but it's still against the rules.

Plus, most swimmers to a dolphin kick when they hit the water anyways, because there's no way that the judges could see it through the stirred up water.

I have seen a few breaststrokers that appear to finish their breaststroke kick with a butterfly kick. It kills their stroke-rate, but gives them a ton of DPS. Seems like it should be illegal, although I'm sure the justification is that it's simply a continuation of the undulation caused by the recovery.

Did you know that in Masters it is legal to do breaststroke kick on fly?

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Did you know that in Masters it is legal to do breaststroke kick on fly?

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Yeah, that's for the old guys like you who learned it that way. Not uncommon to see in the 90+ group! I wonder if they'll phase it out eventually.

I think the trouble with the dolphin kick on breaststroke pullouts comes with the clarification, along with the enforcement. I think we can all agree that they made the rule because so many people were beginning to do it anyway as a part of their pullout. Breastrokers say that when they do their full pullout, their hips will "pop" or "snap", and it basically looks like a dolphin kick. I know there were guys who used to do a flat out dolphin kick when it was illegal, but if you watch some of the elite breaststrokers you can see what they mean by the "snap" of their hips. its not as fluid as a dolphin kick is, but it has a very similar effect.

Trouble is, now that they have made the rule, youve got guys who appear to be doing the legal dolphin kick during their pullouts, but they are still "snapping" their hips when they pull. so it looks like 2 dolphin kicks to most people. so the main reason the rule was made in the first place has circled back around it seems, and is becoming a problem again. I think it has to do with the clarification of the "dolphin kick" that is allowed during the pullout. Its a terrible situation tho, because you cant tell someone not to "snap" their hips when they do the pullout, but you also cant easily distinguish between the "snap" and the dolphin. Very crummy situation that will be difficult to fix. I would say they might be better off without the dolphin kick, and just try and nab people who do one, but then youll get some honest ones too. Tough situation.

Kinda rambled on there, but those are my thoughts.

Agblastoff - I think the Masters fly kick rule exists so that older swimmers without the back strength can compete in fly. You're right that many of the really old swimmers learned it that way too.

But I think without the rule the 70+ crowd would struggle with fly races.

Hey, I know that you guys asked about seeing old swimming footage, and today I posted a video on my site about Adolph Kiefer, who was maybe the most natural swimmer ever, and a 1936 gold medal. The dude only lost 2 races in his career, which spanned over 2,000 meets. Great interview, and some really cool old-chool swimming footage.

http://theswimmerscircle.com/2010/02/08/video-adolph-kiefer-an-olympian-for-life/