Where does A&M track rank in the world of pole vaulting?

Nope, don't have any big-time pole vaulters. Most of the big-time programs seem not to, either (especially on the men's side).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I would surmise that this is because with limited scholarships, programs who are competing for championships can make better use of their scholarships, as pole vaulters are often much more specialized in their events, versus throwers, jumpers, or runners, who can often compete in multiple events.

If the top pole vaulters want to get lots of scholarship money, they probably have to go to places where the POSSIBILITY of getting 2 or 4 points at the NC's, or 8 points at a Conference championship is worth a lot more scholly $.

pole vault is also the least predictable event....so much has to go right.....there are better, safer ways to spend your ships. Also pole vault is a very event specific coach, the best pole vault coaches offten only coach the pole vault.

Also good points BB. So all in all, it sounds like there's better way to use your 'ships and coaching $$.

Although, interestingly, more women's top pole vaulters are at big track schools. I wonder if it's easier to get women to go to a big time school for little to no money and the prospects of winning titles? For boys, maybe it's more a point of honor to get that scholarship even when they don't need it, whereas girls maybe it's not?

Just thinking out loud.

Coach VanHootegem can coach the pole vault, but it is a big risk nonetheless. At the past World Championships, the far-and-away greatest woman pole-vaulter of all time, Yelena Isinbayeva no-heighted. She improved the world record 11 days later. There's a big mental aspect to it, depending on when you should come in, or if you should wait until after someone else has cleared without missing, etc., which can all affect the final outcome.

no doubt coach v can coach pole vault, but if he were to really concenrate on it you would really say it affect the long and triple jumpers.....The Pole Vault is such a technical event it really takes near 100% of a coach's efforts in my opinion to provide the best results...as opposed to coaching the other 3 jumps where you can spread your attention (many of the drills are the same as opposed to the event specific pole vault drills).

That said our pole vaulters all improve on their high school marks so if your a talented vaulter theres no harm bringing your talent to aggie land.

As a recent pole vaulter for the Ags, I saw this thread and felt like I had to comment.

You guys have made very valid points. Successful track programs use their scholarships for multi-event types of guys that can run not only the 100m, but also the 200m, and 400m, etc, or can Long Jump and Triple Jump at a high level, or throw the shot, disc, and hammer. Another valid point you guys made was just how inconsistent the sport can be. The best in the world are more consistent at higher levels, but even they can come away with a no-height performance when it is most important to perform. Head track coaches generally don't like the pole vault for those reasons.

A&M does however have a decent pole vault history. It takes about a 17'2" personal best to break into the Top 10 All Time Aggie Vaulters, with the best being Greg West with 18'4 1/2". Since 2005 we have had two vaulters who jumped higher than 17'5". 2002 was the last year that we invested much scholarship money into the pole vault. When I got to A&M in 2003 there were 7 men vaulters including 2 decathletes. 4 out of the 7 were on some type of scholarship. Two of them were top 5 vaulters in the nation coming out of High School that flopped terribly in college.

Since then, we haven't used more than a half scholarship combined for the entire mens vault program since then. We just hope that the one or two kids that try to walk-on each year just happen to exceed expectations.

Great thread. Learned something!

Here are my first hand thoughts about Coach V as he coached me for 3 years:

There is no better sprint and jump mechanics coach in the Nation. See recent Long and Tripple Jump performances at the National Championships for reference. For the jumps, (high jump, long jump, tripple jump, and pole vault) the run or approach is EVERYTHING, and how you set yourself up technically for the transfer of energy into the jump.

I was a terrible runner mechanically until Coach V got here my sophomore year. He increased my speed and power and efficiency down the runway probably ten fold. I went from one of the slower weaker vaulters in the conference to one of the fastest in the nation "ON THE RUNWAY". I stress "on the runway" because I wasn't the fastest straight up sprinter out of all the vaulters in the nation, but with Coach V's coaching, put a pole in my hand and I was down that runway faster, smoother, and more efficiently than most which allowed me to transition to rather large poles for my height and weight which led to higher heights.

Now I say all of that because, his real expertise ends there. Once the vaulter has left the ground, he becomes less of an elite coach. His understanding of the mechanics of the swing and inversion aren't up to par with the sprint and jump part. The crazy part is, this really doesn't matter. If you don't set up your approach correctly on the ground, it doesn't matter what you do in the air, it's going to be a bad jump. If you set everything up right in the approach, then once you leave the ground, you can really only mess things up from there by pulling at the wrong time or getting yourself off balance, but if the approach is right, chances are the vault will be good.

This is something that all freshman vaulters struggle with when they come here. Up until this point, the only coaching they have had is coaches telling them to do this or that in the air to clear the bar, and not enough about how important the approach is. The first year, they go through several learning curves because Coach V doesn't coach them on what to do in the air so much, but is always correcting the problems on the ground in the approach. I went through this same phase. I doubted his pole vault coaching ability for a year, and did terrible, but when I bought into what he was doing, my personal best increased by over 2 feet that year.

Sorry for the wordiness, but in summary:

Coach V is a student of the game and one of the most technically sound coaches in the nation when it comes to sprint and jump mechanics and efficiencies, and that part of his skill set is a big part of why he has been VERY successful here and won National Assistant Coach of the Year Honors I believe on more than one occasion.

[This message has been edited by aggievaulter07 (edited 2/7/2010 9:22a).]

Our Aggie vaulter had a pretty good showing yesterday in NY. He got second in his group posting a height of 16'-2 3/4". Not his personal best but pretty good.

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Great thread. Learned something!

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+1

Thanks aggievaulter. I wonder why coach doesn't start up a clinic to try to get more high school coaches to buy into the importance of the approach? If he were to get a bunch of the state's coaches to recognize him as an authority, maybe he could talk some elite vaulters with enough money to not need scholarships into walking on here. I have more of a swimming background, and I know that high school swim coaches would eat something like that up.

Or maybe he does, and I just don't know about it. Do many vaulters come to the summer camp?

And also, great info!

[This message has been edited by gobluwolverine (edited 2/7/2010 10:35p).]

good info, AggieVaulter07 - thanks!

I was lucky to watch at the Texas Relays early 40s Warmerdam first vaulter over 15'! against Bryan of Tu a 14'10+/-. with a bamboo pole and sand in the pit.

Anybody ever figured out the equivalent height they would have reached with a current pole and a softer landing pit??????????????

[This message has been edited by BigJim49 AustinNowDallas (edited 2/8/2010 12:55p).]

[This message has been edited by BigJim49 AustinNowDallas (edited 2/8/2010 1:01p).]

aggievaulter, you probably know more about this than I do, but...

We have a new girl helping just with pole vault this year. I think maybe she just comes a few times a week, but at the meets she seems to give better adjustments than Coach V (who is often trying to watch several other events)

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aggievaulter, you probably know more about this than I do, but...

We have a new girl helping just with pole vault this year. I think maybe she just comes a few times a week, but at the meets she seems to give better adjustments than Coach V (who is often trying to watch several other events)

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Her name is Rachel Greff. She was a very good Pole Vaulter for Rice, and is now in vet school at A&M. She was a much needed addition to the program for the very reason you stated. Often during meets, Coach V has several events going on at the same time. There are times where he has several of his athletes on the runway for two or three different events at the exact same time so he doesn't always get to see every single jump by every one of his athletes.

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Thanks aggievaulter. I wonder why coach doesn't start up a clinic to try to get more high school coaches to buy into the importance of the approach? If he were to get a bunch of the state's coaches to recognize him as an authority, maybe he could talk some elite vaulters with enough money to not need scholarships into walking on here. I have more of a swimming background, and I know that high school swim coaches would eat something like that up.

Or maybe he does, and I just don't know about it. Do many vaulters come to the summer camp?

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I don't believe our coaches do clinics like you described, but I can't say for sure. I really was amazed when I got to college to learn just how bad high school coaching can be, especially in specialized sports and events, but I also came form a very small town with limited resources. It really is crazy tho how little the high school football coaches I played for and have observed over the years know about the actual mechanics of running. Every movement has a proper technique and a most efficient way, and sprinting is no exception to that rule, and the knowledge these coaches have could be invaluable to coaches from almost every sport.

Now track isn't my favorite sport even though it was my strongest, but I do believe it is at the forefront in the world of athletics as far as the science of movement goes, and training, and diet, and rest. The sport doesn't have the mentality of "the harder you push, the better you will get". It understands the true meaning of overtraining, and under training, and the true balance of life, health, and training. Track is this way out of necessity because it is a sport of fractions of a second and centimeters.

Knowing this "science" is what separates our coaching staff from most out there and along with very good recruiting is why our program is where it is today. This is also why you see an influx of Olympic hopefuls training in College Station with the Aggies after they go pro. It's a win/win situation. These athletes get world class coaching, while being mentors to A&M's current athletes because they train side by side.

Vaulter - I think high school athletic coaching is often awful. It seems most schools' track coach(es) is also a football coach. And they may know how to block or throw a football, but they really have no clue when it comes to track and field.

In my experience, most elite runners, swimmers, tennis players, golfers, and soccer players get their serious coaching in a club program, not the high school.

I want to add though that I think swimming at an elite level is just as advanced as track in terms of science. Swimming benefits from the same physiological factors (aerobic vs anerobic, lactate threshold, VO2 measurements, etc.) as running. And technique continues to evolve has they learn new ways to move through the water with the least resistance and supply the most propulsion. Swimming has the added challenge of limited oxygen intake.

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In my experience, most elite runners, swimmers, tennis players, golfers, and soccer players get their serious coaching in a club program, not the high school.

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And it's really a shame, because I love the competitive and team-oriented stuff that comes along with high school athletics. But the poor high school coaches are limited by the school's inability to pay them, and the time limits. I wish there was a way to work around this. It's not like kids, just because they're only practicing, what is it, 9 hours a week? for highschool are spending the rest of time on school work. For a lot of them, they're spending most of the rest of the time perfecting their sport on a club team. And those club teams aren't free either, so there should be money there.

But at the same time, I would hate to see a huge 125$ a month charge or whatever coming with high school athletics. It's a tough situation.

goblu - yes it is unfortunate. But I don't know how they can change it. I think the TEA requires all coaches to be teachers. So a really good coach in a sport will not also be a high school coach unless he/she wants to be a teacher.

The UIL limit on participation is 8 hours per week. My son swims high school in the a.m. 5 days a week. His coach is an ex-D3 swimmer, but has to coach kids who are barely past summer league ranging to a senior national 200 flyer. His club coach is far better, and he probably gets 60% of his training from the club.

Yet high school swimming is more fun - because it is a team sport, they keep score, swim relays, and aren't just chasing AA, AAA, or AAAA time standards.

AggieVaulter pretty much summed it up already, but I'll give my 2 cents. We have at our high school one of the best vaulters in the country. He would've scored at Big XII last year with his best vault. I asked if he was interested in A&M. He said that they didn't even recruit him. He ended up signing with Texas.

I understand the reasoning behind not recruiting vaulters. But as a former A&M track guy, it is disappointing to not even get a look from them for one of your athletes who is very capable of contributing immediately.

Did he get any money from t.u.?

cdonlee,

Just curious, what was his best jump? I have a feeling the Aggie coaches didn't offer him anything because they probably assumed that it would take a full scholarship to get him, and they just aren't willing to do that. Notice that the mens signing class was very small this year too, so it probably had something to do with the availability of scholarships too. They should have at least talked to him. The worst he could have said was no thanks.

His best was 16'6", and was really freaking close to 17' at UIL Region 1 last year. His name is Casey Wicker - #10 national HS in '09.

http://parser.dyestat.com/dselite.jsp?event=PV&state=&seasontype=OUT&seasonyear=2009&athclass=

That's impressive. 16'6" not long ago would have you ranked in the top 5 nationally.

I also didn't know a kid jumped over 18' last year. As far as I know, that would make him maybe the 4th HS 18' jumper ever.

One thing on club coaches, in sports like volleyball and soccer they can be very good. In track, more often than not they are glad handers with all the charms and faults of AAU basketball coaches. They are often corrupt and exploit the kids. There are some good club coaches but they coach individuals and not teams. If you are not with one of those coaches you are wasting your time and money.

The 18 foot kid did it at TX Relays last year. It was impressive. He's from oklahoma. I do not know where he is going to college. Anyone?

Jack Whitt is a freshman at Oral Roberts University where he is coached by former great Joe Dial. He recently cleared 18'01/2" which currently ties him for 3rd amongst all collegians.