Well the football board is blowing up about recruiting so lets make a thread about "other sports" recruiting and whats wrong with it. Or great with it.

the recruiting for our hockey team has been out of control. there is so much talent in canada and sweden that we arent tapping into. ridiculous.

That's because the GD swim teams keep stealing all of the Swedes and Canucks!

Lets have some fun with this. I'll take a stab at grading our recruiting in various non-football sports:

M basketball - B
W basketball - B+
T&F - A-
M swimming - C (not enough USA athletes)
W swimming - B (we don't get enough elites)
Volleyball - D (no one really good looks at us)
Soccer - B
Tennis - I don't know enough to judge
Golf - I have no idea
Baseball - B-

I think in general A&M is an underachiever in recruiting. Our national reputation is weak and we suck at marketing (still). The quality of our coaches is undersold. The weirdness that is A&M (and that we love) doesn't sell well because it takes too long to understand and appreciate if you didn't grow up in Texas.

My two cents.

Men's tennis has done a great job recruiting since Denton has got here. Pulling Krajicek and spencer (both top 10 recruits) from the state of Florida was pretty impressive to me. The results have come on the courts as well, in 2 years they went from not ranked to top 10, beating Texas, Baylor, and USC among others. Now they have another great class coming in January. The women's team on the other hand has been quite the opposite

http://www.golfweek.com/news/2010/nov/10/2011-mens-national-letters-intent/

It looks like golf does a pretty good job of recruiting, 2 recruits in golfweeks top 50

AgBlastoff - remember I mentioned Maddie Locus? She is a Houston area swimmer, committed to Georgia.

At Jr Nationals in Atlanta last week she won 50 free with a 22.76. She also won the 100 free with a 49.01.

That's an example of an outstanding Texas swimmer, whose family has Aggie ties, and we didn't get her. I have no idea if we recruited her or not - but if we did - we failed. If we didn't, then we were idiots.

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 12/13/2010 12:00p).]

paging XlAggie....

I'll post for XlAggie...


"Fire Bobby K! Worste coach evers. Bill B. is a teriblle AD unles he fires Bobby. No's nuthing about tennis! Fire Bobby!"

(note: grammatical erros added so all of you can have the enjoyment of reading what a XlAggie post is really like)

PFG-
Your statement has punctuation and is not a run-on sentence. Please adjust accordingly to make it seem more realistic.

Maybe XIAggie is in english class tonight.

no disrespect to you Spice, or anyone else passionate about the sport, but do you really think it's our recruiting approach/lack of -that is the determining factor where kids go?
most 'top end' kids have their minds made up long before they take their trips (IF they take more than one trip!)
watching Stubblefield on the morning swim show, he was crawling out of his skin with excitement talking about Cal (a lot of elite swimmers there).
have a look at the swimming world recruiting list...what schools have most of those kids gone to?? why did they??

Proudtoknow - no disprespect taken.

How is it that kids know so early where they want to go? I'm not so sure they decide as early as you think - football excepted. I think there are lots of reasons.

I still have a child in high school sports - and I know a bunch of divers recently made their commitments (Nov. signing date). None of these seniors, all committed to Division 1 schools, knew six months ago where they were going. These kids chose Auburn, LSU, Miami, UCLA, and others. One was offered 90% by A&M.

I think in the case of swimming, performance can be identifed VERY early, because times are easily tracked. Athletes can be identified very early as worth tracking. I know the NCAA has rules about coach contact - but at least our coaches should be scouring their territories and watching the athletes we are interested in. We need relationships with age group coaches, etc. That is one way A&M can be introduced to athletes early.

Consider swimming Junior Nationals, which just completed. Quinn Carrozza, a 14 year old swimmer from Austin, won the girls 200 free with a time of 1:46.64. That matches A&M's fastest time this season. Her dad is Paul Carrozza, who owns Austin Run-Tex. He is a big figure in the running world. Do our coaches know as much about this future star? I'm just a swimming/diving dad who follows mostly Texas athletes.

We should look at EVERY Texas kid that qualified for Juniors and evaluate whether or not they are worth pursuing.

I don't see why it shouldn't be similar for other sports.





[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 12/14/2010 8:53a).]

Is Carozza open to looking around or is she a lock to texas bc of swimming for LA?

I hope that a 14 year old would be open to looking around and hadn't made their college decision already. That is way to young to make a decision that big. Even with all the extra recruiting Kim does

I have no idea where Carrozza is thinking about college. I kinda doubt that she is automatically destined for Texas. I hear her dad drives the coaches crazy at TXLA because he has a strong fitness background and disagrees with some of what TXLA does.

With no knowledge whatsoever, I would guess she is thinking Stanford or Cal.

Men's tennis A
Women's tennis D
Track A
Men's hoops B-
Women's hoops A-
Football(2010) C-

Texas A&M- Our coaches work harder then yours!

GIFSoup

1+ for SA68AG

sure, tracking kids these days is a mouse click away
i totally agree that building relationships is critical for long term success, but not convinced that at the end of the day it's the deciding factor.
like we've all said, telling kids how we've been top 20 (for EVER), just isn't enough. it's draw cards (other elite athletes) and historically elite performances that ultimately draws more elite kids to our program. we all agree we have hard working, fantastic coaches, excellent facilities, and a top notch education to offer.

our youngest daughter is extremely committed to her swimming goals (and will hopefully swim here). her first question, when we discussed where she would like to go was...."which are the top teams in the nation?" all else aside, this is what kids look at ...and want to be a part of. athletic opportunities come and go very quickly, and every kid would like to maximize their experiences before they join the real world.

our volleyball recruiting is ineffective at best and schizo at worst.

proudtoknow - I agree with most of what you said. I just think recruiting is not a passive thing for most programs. Eddie Reese, like maybe five other coaches in the US, probably don't have to work too hard to get a swimmer's attention. He probably doesn't really recruit against A&M, or LSU, or Georgia Tech, etc. We on the other hand have to recruit against every top 20 team in the country, and a few more. When we are not top of mind, we have to work twice as hard (or harder), to be successful.

I think Pat Henry in track is like Eddie now. I just want A&M to be that in every sport.

Women's basketball has to be an A. Three straight top ten classes. #8 in 2009, #10 in 2010, and #9 in 2011, (2012 already has verbals from #9 and #34 overall players in the class, which those two alone should make a top 15 class and I think they have room for two or three more) all from hoopgurlz/espn, which doesn't factor in transfers, of which we have had some pretty dang good ones (Tanisha Smith, Danielle Adams, Kelsey Bone)

I can't imagine any program besides track is recruiting at a higher level than that (I don't know anything about the track team but I'm guessing if they are winning championships they must be getting some great recruits).

Volleyball recruiting is in the pits and something needs to be done ASAP.

[This message has been edited by drumbeat10 (edited 12/14/2010 2:15p).]

Part of the trick in swimming recruiting is getting post-grads to stay in town and train. All of the top programs have their club sides loaded with National Team members, both American and otherwise. Auburn, Cal, Stanford, Texas. Look at their club sides, and compare it to how many of ours hang around College Station. I think that's a huge factor. I mean, when young swimmers I know talk about wanting to swim for Texas (boys AND girls) they don't have a freaking clue who Kim Brackin, Eddie Reese, Kathleen Hersey, Hill Taylor, etc. are. They know that Aaron Peirsol and Brendan Hansen train there, and furthermore, the girls know that those guys are "dreamy." They go to the Longhorn camps because of the post-grads who are there. I think that one thing our coaches could do a lot of work on is keeping swimmers engaged in the program past graduation. Track does a very good job of that, and look how that's working out for them. Much bigger snowball effect when you work it that way.

There's a coach in Texas (I won't say who, though some of you might be able to figure it out) who is not a very good coach, but this coach happens to have a single HUGE athlete name on the resume from when the athlete was younger. This coach rides that single name HARD, whether or not this coach deserves the credit. And all of the best swimmers are in other programs, then when they get cocky and think they're good, they flip to this coach's program and hit a big plateau (for about twice the money too). The athlete comes around once a year to run an exclusive clinic, and boom, this coach is GOLDEN forever. This is a perfect demonstration of what these huge programs have going for them. These teenagers (and often their parents) don't have the same maturity in these decision making processes as those of us on the outside looking in can demonstrate, and in that case, who can blame them for going elsewhere?

sorry, i'm tired and this whole thing is a little convoluted...
tell me again what was OUR thing/reason/niche that convinces kids to come here (that separates us above everyone else?)
or are we saying that we just need to work harder at developing a more "12th man" relationship with potential recruits.

Proudtoknow - I don't know for certain why most of our athletes chose A&M over other schools. I know something about swimmers (and now divers). Set aside foreign athletes, because their story is generally not comparable.

For Texas kids, most of the guys who chose A&M were not offered by Texas, Stanford, Cal, etc. These are guys who did not have Sr. Nationals times, nor Olympic Trials cuts. They are good swimmers, but not good enough to get a spot, scholarship or walkon, at other top 10 programs. Most swimmers are middle to upper socioeconomic class kids - so their parents place a high priority on education for their kids. They won't let their kid go to a Div II school, because generally they all suck for academics. So the choice is go to a great school like A&M, affordable in state, or go Div III out of state. I think most kids and parents like Jay and Doug a lot. So A&M is a great choice for many of them.

The women's team is a bit different because Bultman's rep is better nationally. We are a Top 10 women's team. We have produced Olympians. We have recruited more kids from out of Texas. Somehow we have had some girls with an appealing personality - good enough to appear on Swimming World magazine's video clips, or write blogs on national swimming sites.

Some of our Texas girls choose A&M for similar reasons as the guys. They aren't Stanford, Cal, or Arizona material, and A&M can legitimately argue it is a better program than Texas'.

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 12/15/2010 10:11a).]

'Even with all the extra recruiting Kim does' bahahahahaha

I can't speak as much for the guys, but I would say one thing that really helps with women's recruiting is team chemistry. It sounds fluffy but it's the truth. Every program has its' bad apples/problem children (or coaches) but its been some time since we've truly had one that played a major role in affecting team chemistry. I think that really shows to outsiders trying to take a peek inside.

I think kids want a great education and to be able to swim as fast as they can, but they also want to be happy too. We are one of the very few programs (big dogs included) that can give them a competitive swimming environment but still maintain team focus as the ultimate goal. Too many of the big dogs can be cutthroat at the individual level and that is NEVER good for the team dynamic.

[This message has been edited by Look Out Below (edited 12/15/2010 10:38a).]

quote:

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Part of the trick in swimming recruiting is getting post-grads to stay in town and train.

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So our good Aggie students should turn down jobs after college to help the team recruit? Professional swimming is not exactly an ideal way to make a living, and there are only really 2 types of swimmers who would have justification for sticking around after they are done with school to train. 1. Olympic Level Athletes (which we have yet to have attend A&M, hopefully someday in the not too distant future) and 2. Foreign Athletes who are being paid by their National Federation to stay here and train with the best facilities and coaches (which you guys have already constantly reminded everyone are not the athletes most kids prefer to have on teams when they are deciding).

So I am a bit confused...because I don't see exactly what you are looking for Blastoff? Shawn Clarke stayed and trained after he was done with school. So did the Jacobo brothers. Matt Rose stayed a year or two I believe. I'd be willing to bet that if Balazs has any interest to keep swimming he will stick around.

This recruiting deal is all such a ridiculous revolving door of arguments. It all goes back to the type of athletes that we are recruiting. We aren't to the level yet to pull in the Aaron Piersol/Brendan Hansen/Ian Crockers of the world (or should I say the U.S.), so at this point in time, Blastoff's theory doesnt really apply to Americans. Now, I do think that the Clarkes/Jacobos/Roses/maybe Makanys sticking around to train here will help our foreign recruiting in the same way that you suggest. Because a lot of the foreign countries dont have the resources we have here, both academically and athletically. So when a European sees a guy like Balazs come to A&M, have huge success, get a degree, and continue to train here and represent his country, it opens their eyes a little bit.

Bottom line is we have to work our way up (which we are doing I think) to the level where we can compete with the big name schools (Texas, Stanford, Cal, Auburn, etc) for those top notch recruits.

This is all getting so repetitive for swimming its ridiculous. The same 5 or 6 people arguing the same 3 or 4 points.

[This message has been edited by BigPapaB (edited 12/15/2010 3:13p).]

I usually agree with AgBlastoff, but I think that post-grads staying at A&M isn't meaningful unless they are superstars.

If you walk through the Texas Swim Center in Austin and look at the pictures of their past stars, the number of NCAA champions, Olympians and world record holders is staggering. That's Eddie Reese, Richard Quick, and Mark Schubert over 30 years. Those are three of perhaps the ten most important and successful US swimming coaches in history.

THAT is the biggest advantage Texas has over A&M in swimming.

I'm not suggesting the ones who can't hack it in pro swimming stick around. I'm mostly referring to the ones who do. Aljand, Wilkinson, Atkinson, etc. on the girls side. You're right, the guys haven't had many athletes who would fall into that. But regardless of the visibility/Nationality of these athletes, saying "we have 5 Olympians who train with us in our post grad program" regardless of nationality still says a lot to a recruit. It's small steps that you've gotta take to snowball into the bigger recruits. Those three that I mentioned, for example, are all names that would be worth throwing out to recruits that came to campus. It's one thing to train them...it's a whole other level when you can convince them to keep training with you once they aren't getting a dirt cheap/free college education out of it.

Top volleyball recruits wouldn't piss on the program if it was burning.

my bad, BPB
i'll stop beatin' the ded dog

Spicewood: FYI, Maddie Locus swam for First Colony in Sugar Land.

Also, if you do a time search on USA Swimming for Jr Natl cuts for LCM in 2010 age 18 and below for just Texas LSCs, you'll see that 14 yr old Simone Manuel was actually faster than Quinn Corrozza. Don't know what Simone's college aspirations are, but sometimes, I've talked with her mom at meets (at least when she used to swim at TAGS).

Spicewood et al: Another thing to mention about Women's swimming & recruiting, Steve has a reputation of making swimmers that come out of HS faster. The same cannot be said about tu.