He would visit every age group program in Texas. He would sell the program, the school, and he would through sheer effort, energy, and charisma convince great swimmers to come to Texas A&M.

And he would repeat this process as necessary to get the results he wants.

Would either swim team get an increase to their budgets?

Then I guess this would have been his first year in the top 10, unlike our current coach who has accomplished this 5x in a row.

I think if Gary Blair had started with a top 10 team he would have won a NC five years sooner. Instead he started with the Big 12's worst.

My real point though is that Blair understands better than any coach in College Station that you have to market your team and university. If he had no A&M money to spend, he'd find a way. But really, he would use his charm and get Byrne to cough up some more money.

I'm a big fan of what Blair does, so don't get me wrong, but that's not the only way to have success.

I think you might want to look into the history of the women's program a little more pre-Bultman. It wasn't pretty (with the exception of 1 great Nash season).

I would venture to guess that the WBB program had a lot more history behind it.

Bultman has done an outstanding job. I don't think the OP says otherwise. Jay has done a fine job too.

But do you not agree some of Blair's unique qualities wouldn't be an asset to swimming?

Or women's tennis? Volleyball?

If I were the parent of a basketball player, how could I not want my daughter to play for Blair?

There are PLENTY of coaches with effort, energy and charisma that haven't nor ever will get the job done to the extent Blair did Tuesday. What he did was special. And most of the swimmers that would make the difference for the women now aren't in the Texas age groups any more; we are in the hunt for the big dogs against Auburn, Georgia, Stanford, Texas et. al. and they are all over the nation and globe. Sure there are a few good ones (see: Cammile) but to truly take the next step we have to get out of the state.

If you're whining about why Bultman can't do what Blair did, Bultman has twice as many Elite Eights than Blair does since being at A&M (and he did them all in a row). If he gets some more sprint freestylers in here, he's likely guaranteed to run three more in a row together (at least). Blair also gets MUCH more support from over his head than Bultman; while no one questions Blair does a yeoman's job promoting his team, he has PLENTY of help.

Another point: Notice athletics bought the money pit that is Reed Arena but yet is content to get bent over a table by the Rec Center year after year. The funny thing is they could probably even make money off the pool if they pursued it but likely can't ever off of Reed. Athletics has already spent enough money at the Rec in the past 15 years to pay for the cost of the pool and then some. That contract the swim program/athletics is under to use the pool is the contractual equivalent of the Titanic.

Both Blair and Bultman started with teams that were completely non-competitive for any kind of championship and both have done a heck of a job in getting there. That said, you need a lot less bodies to win a basketball title than in a racing sport. You can also coach basketball a lot easier than you can coach fast; Butler didn't make two consecutive finals because they have the best athletes -- that isn't the case in swimming. In the racing sports, recruiting is half the battle. See: Henry, Pat and Watkins, Melvin (how in the hell did we not make NCAA's with Wright and B. King on the team?)

There are coaches on our swimming staff that have some promotional tendencies in the same neighborhood as Blair, G, etc.; they don't get the help those folks do because 'it's just swimming'. Some of those huge dual meet crowds we've had the last 4-5 years happened because the coaches, athletes, and one or two other rare staff members got off their butt and did things to make it happen (and they should have -- IT'S THEIR JOB).

And as far as this goes: 'If I were the parent of a basketball player, how could I not want my daughter to play for Blair?' The exact same thing goes for Bultman.

[This message has been edited by Look Out Below (edited 4/7/2011 4:37p).]

LOB - don't get me wrong. We have great swimming (and diving) coaches. I said many years ago here that one of the worst things Byrne did was give Jay just a 1 year contract after Nash was fired. Killed Jay's recruiting at the time and put him in a hole.

I'm also not saying Bultman or Holmes should transform into Blair. But I suppose "matic" above just wants to see a visible tireless evangelist for the team.

The athletic department needs to supply that resource. Jay and Bultman can't do it on their own.

Very valid points have been made by both sides. Blair gets more resources to publicize his team (not the least of which is his salary), but it's hard to deny that Blair does more publicizing, even if there's justification for it.

Julia Wilkinson cleaned up at Canadian Nationals, and it took roughly 4 days for AA to acknowledge it. Maybe it's not entirely the coaches' fault. Maybe it's a team effort (coaches working with SID's).

I think a good first step would be to get some ex-swimmers listed on "Aggies in the Pros". I mean, if Aqua Franklin can get listed for riding the pine in the WNBA, why can't our swimmers get listed for making World Championship and Olympic finals?

Pat Henry and his track programs might be a better comparison to swimming than women's basketball. They've certainly been more successful at every school he's coached at.


Anyways, Blair was the head coach at an Arkansas that program that had more history than the swimming or women's basketball programs had here at A&M and he posted one winning record in the conference in his 10 years. He got past the NCAA second round just once. He was the same, terrific, enigmatic coach he is now, but things just never lined up for him.

They havn't for Bultman or Holmes, but that doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong. Many of the countries greatest coaches in many different sports will never win a national title. Sure, there are some traits they might do well to pick up from Blair, just as there are traits Blair might do well to pick up from them, but that doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong. I think it's almost undeniable that Blair has more help around him. I think it's almost undeniable that if Blair didn't have a bounce or two go his way against Stanford, this topic never pops up.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 4/7/2011 8:07p).]

What is the missing ingredient in the swim teams for them to be consistent Top 5 teams, contending for a NC?

It isn't facilities.

It isn't lack of training yardage. Or not enough underwater dolphin kicks. Or not enough dryland work.

It isn't better training/coaching, period.

Has Blair ever had a consistent top 5 national title contending program?

I think the point is that there's more than one way to do it. Bultman does what he does and Blair does what he does. If Bultman wasn't in a racing sport, he might have his national title, as well. He's certainly has been more consistently chugging out top 10/top 8 caliber squads. Holmes obviously has some work to do in that area.

We obviously need to get faster swimmers to College Station. You can't make slow fast, you can only make slow a little less slow and fast a little faster.

That'll come with a better all around "sales" job. The entire athletic department needs to do better. I don't know if interchanging head coaches, so to speak, would be the answer. There's no magic formula for recruiting a national championship team. They could definately learn from Blair on a few points, as I think Blair could learn from them on a few points.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 4/8/2011 10:16a).]

TxAggie2011 - I agree with you. I don't know if Blair were a swimming coach he would have produced better results than Bultman and Holmes. But I think we all know Blair is a tireless promoter, evangelist, marketer, whatever you want to call him in addition to what he does with his athletes in the gym.

He also had Byrne's deep desire to change the basketball program. But Byrne didn't make him pop up everywhere promoting his program. Blair did that himself.

Bultman gets the job done in the pool. No doubt. So does Jay. I seriously doubt they can be infused with Blair DNA. So it is time for Byrne and the athletic department to do more to get all of our sports into the top 10 or top 5. Sounds like women's tennis and vball need the most help right now.

I'm sorry, until you know what goes on behind the scenes you really can't criticize what a coach does and doesn't do.

I think there should be a talent cap on every team to evenly distribute and see who the really good and talented coaches are. No more than 1 six star recruit, no more than 3 five star recruits - I'd love to see the shift in power.

That would be a terrible idea. Take all focus off of the athletes and put it all on the coaches? Sounds like a winning formula...

Aggieswimfan - sports fans almost never know what is going on inside a sports program. Does that mean we can't comment or occasionally suggest a sports program could do something new?

Have you ever criticized Mike Sherman?

Is swimming different?

As for you idea of equalizing talent levels, that is a terrible idea. So if a 6 star kid wants to go to Cal, but they already used their slot, the kid has to go somewhere else? That's a dumb idea, and almost un-American.

The best program operating legally should win. If A&M doesn't get the best swimmers, they should figure out what they need to do to get better.

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Have you ever criticized Mike Sherman?

Is swimming different?

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I'd venture to guess that 95% of the criticisms or suggestions directed at Mike Sherman have a) either occured to the football coaching staff and we just don't get to see them in action b) wouldn't be made in the first place if you got to spend time behind the closed doors. Is swimming any different?

My father has been in college athletics for 30 plus years. He's got more tough love Geno Auriemma (UConn) in him, and if I can brag on my pop for a bit, been very successful with it, than Gary Blair, but he's well aware of the "Gary Blair" style. I'm sure our swimming coaches are, too. They'd have to be living under a rock to not be well versed in that style.

They obviously are doing something right- they might just be really energetic, charismatic guys. We just don't know.

I'd love to see them more visible in the local community, but that might not always be as worthwhile for swimming as it is for basketball. If it's simply not their cup of tea, that's okay. We have 70 million dollar athletic budget that can and should work in that area.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 4/9/2011 2:55p).]

A Gary Blair quality or personna might not be the answer. But asking questions or commenting on our success and speculating how to make it better are reasonable for a message board. We don't have to know what's going on at the Rec during practice or during recruiting to do that. I think it is a fair question - what does our swimming programs need to get to consistent Top 5? I don't think we need better coaches.

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I think it is a fair question - what does our swimming programs need to get to consistent Top 5?

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I think we've all answered that question several times already. The athletic department as a whole needs to sell itself "better". That goes for swimming. That goes for volleyball. That goes for the whole shebang.

For swimming, I agree that it could easily start with the website puting up better ane more extensive coverage of the program.

Off the top of my head, I can say our soccer program does a terrific job with this. They even had a feature story the other week about the success they've had with transfers. If you're looking around at schools one late night, that's the exact type of thing you want to see. Let's get it done with the swim teams!

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 4/9/2011 6:39p).]

Just got on aggieathletics...one of the front page stories is Troskot making the Canadian World University Games squad.

It is that kind of stuff that we need more of from the website.

Let's also remember recruiting in these sports is very different. Blair can give out only two types of scholarships: Full Ride/No Ride. Swimming must deal with perecentages as well as walk-ons. I would sure assume the State of texas knows both teams are doing very well, but let's face it. Ego's and scholarship percentages don't mix well.

Blair has done a great job, but let's not just say the same approach would work the same way. He has also failed many times at what the swim coaches have seemed to do well at lately: Swim Fast on the right day...Blair has just got his team to do this for the first time, no?

Money and marketing.


Beyond that what does Bultman and Holmes need?

Do either programs host Junior day for potential high school prospects?

Just went to one at Georgia Tech.

I heard LSU was hosting one as well.




[This message has been edited by bogustrumper (edited 4/13/2011 9:47p).]

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I think there should be a talent cap on every team to evenly distribute and see who the really good and talented coaches are. No more than 1 six star recruit, no more than 3 five star recruits - I'd love to see the shift in power.

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This may be the stupidest thing I've ever heard! So we should just say sorry to big time recruits that love a school and make them go to another school? 6 star and 5 star recruits are people too that may want to actually go to a school for academics... and what? The NCAA isn't a socialist nation

quote:

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I think there should be a talent cap on every team to evenly distribute and see who the really good and talented coaches are. No more than 1 six star recruit, no more than 3 five star recruits - I'd love to see the shift in power.

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if that were a joke, sign me up for an LOL

if not...FAIL for you

Loving this debate...

The talent on cap thing isn't feasible in any way, as much as anyone wants to see a level playing field (it'd great for the spectators, terrible for the athletes)

I think the argument for the track & field team has to also be that Pat Henry came back to A & M with a VERY good reputation, and in technical sports, reputation means a whole lot...

I wonder how much Bultman tries to play up the national titles he was apart of as a club coach and as an assistant at Georgia...

Anyhow, Pat Henry came to A&M with a reputation. That's true.

He came to Blinn as a 33 year old with no college experience and had the first of his national titles within 3 years. He got LSU with no previous experience at a 4 year college and some of his teams were damn near unbeatable for a decade.

TXag, I was referring to his rep coming from LSU.

Prior to his time at Blinn, he had coached a high school team (I forget where) to 5 state championships, hardly a bad record to have and if a coach displays the correct knowledge and sells himself well, it's a fair rep to enter junior college coaching with.

Add to this the fact that most of his family coaches and does so very well and I think you'll find that his rep entering Blinn wasn't too bad.

It's actually the step he took between Blinn and LSU that I find the most interesting, although LSU has (for the most part) always had a healthy track program, he really did catapult them to champions very very quickly.

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TXag, I was referring to his rep coming from LSU.

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I know what "rep" you were referring too. Hence the "Anyhow, Pat Henry came to A&M with a reputation. That's true."

I also didn't say he came to Blinn without some sort of reputation. I said he made the jump and succeeded quickly. He's done it multiple times.

As I said, Bultman has made similar jumps, as well. The "problem" is that he hasn't made the final jump quite like Henry did back when he took over Blinn and/or LSU, even though he had a similar base to build a D-1 head coach reputation upon.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 4/16/2011 5:43p).]

Let's also remember that in Track you can get into the top ten quite easily with a relay and a few sprinter's. There just isnt the depth of teams that are good as there is in swimming, baseball, football etc. Taking nothing away from what Henry has done...it's just different

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Let's also remember that in Track you can get into the top ten quite easily with a relay and a few sprinter's. There just isnt the depth of teams that are good as there is in swimming

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Georgia just finished 10th at the last men's swim championships basically by placing 3 guys in multiple events and running relays with the same guys.

There's about twice as many division one track programs as there are swimming programs. You can get into the top 10 in track with just a few high quality guys, but that's not really because the depth isn't there.

It's that 72 men's track squads scored atleast one top 8 finish in the last outdoor championships and the difference between 10th and 30th or whatever might be one race because it's such a diluted meet. (37 registered (that's a top 16 finish, of course) in the men's swimming meet.)

Anyhow, isn't this argument kind of moot? Pat Henry is not just getting into the top 10. He's winning the championship. And that's certainly something that requires a very deep and large pool of talent.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 4/17/2011 9:31p).]

I mean, we all get that track is different than swimming, and that basketball is different than swimming, and etc. etc. etc. But I think it's a hallmark of all great coaches that they learn from the best in their industry, even if it's from different sports. I guarantee you that every swim coach you've ever had has used a Vince Lombardi quote at some point. I bet our swim coaches would tell you the same thing. I mean, John Wooden, anybody? Any D-1 college coach who doesn't at least read John Wooden's book just really doesn't care about their job.

I absolutely agree with that. Excellent points, blastoff.