Looks like 5 freshmen:

Duplechain - 5A IM finalist, 1:51; breast consol 59+
Kaaki - private school 50/100 guy
McKinnerney (diver) - 5th 4A state
Riley - 50/100 guy; times very similar to Kaaki
Shaw - 4A state champ 200/500 1:38/4:29

Add: All Texans.... :-)


[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 9/6/2011 1:27p).]

Kinda surprised there isn't at least one foreign addition after the loss of Makany. Perhaps they aren't all listed yet.

Looks like there are two diving transfers as well, Hayden Jones and Antonio Page-Kahn. Do you know anything about them Spice?

I do not know those divers - I am only generally aware of male divers in our district/region.

But Hayden Jones looks like he is currently listed at the Naval Academy. He was the Texas 2010 5A boys champion, with 511 points. Excellent scores. He dove at the NCAA Zones last year.

Antonio Page-Kahn's history is less clear. It looks like his high school and club experience is in New Mexico, college = Oakland University?

His brother is Harrison Jones who has been at USC for several years. Another solid pick-up for Lerew. We're going to be downright nasty in diving on both sides this year if everyone can stay eligible and healthy.

Hopefully, given that he went to the Naval Academy, he's in better shape than his brother was at USC. Harrison left school early, and now is under a FINA suspension after at least his 2nd positive marijuana test.

Hayden definitely has NCAA qualifying potential.

[This message has been edited by AGBlastoff (edited 9/6/2011 7:32p).]

Kaaki looks like he could be very good. Houston kid, but went to HS in Pennsylvania. The guy looks like he does nothing but 50/100, bests of 20.78/45.84. Just has the feel of someone who is going to break out when he gets to campus.

And if he went to Mercersburg, he must be a very good student, so shouldn't be any eligibility issues.

Ok, so I haven't been around Aggie Swimming as long as some of you, but Shaw seems to be one of the better mid-D recruits we've had in a while (American at least?) With a 1:38. That could be a huge help for that relay to keep them at NCAA's.

Luke Shaw is an Alamo Heights kid - swam in our region. I don't remember the last time I saw an Alamo Heights swimmer on our roster.

Alamo Heights kids seem to favor private, high academics schools, not the big public universities. Or at least that's what I imagine they do.

They have always had good swimming - another kid to watch is Ian LeMaistre. His dad was a state champion many years ago.

Great to see all Texas guys. Thats a good sign for the program. So definitely agree with that smile Spice. Don't know anything about any of the guys though, how does this compare to other classes around the country blastoff?

It's tough to compare our classes to others...we don't recruit many of the really versatile guys that most colleges love. In terms of meeting our needs within our system, it was a great class.

If you compare it swimmer-against-swimmer to the other teams that are in our 10-15 range at NCAA's, it doesn't stack up well. Minnesota brought in an army, including a 20.3 sprinter and a 55 breaststroker. UNC brought in a couple of top-40 recruits including a 48 butterflier and a 1:47 IM'er. Tennessee brought in a kid from Sweden who goes a converted 44 in the 100 free.

Without some hidden international recruit (which I think we're all sensing might be on the way), it's just sort of a continuation of what we typically recruit, which is guys who will be great relay guys, but aren't going to become individual scorers until at least their junior, and more likely senior, years. It's extremely difficult to move past 10th in the NCAA rankings without guys scoring individually, and scoring by the time their sophomores.

Look at the math. If you had 4 Balazs Makany types on a team, all in the same class. You were able to get all of your relays to average a 5th-place finish at NCAA's, plus each of those 4 guys to score 10 individual points as seniors, and none from your underclassmen. That still leaves you a point shy of 9th place in the individual standings, and that's sort of a "best case" when your four best swimmers are all seniors at the same time.

Comparing to Missouri (which only matters for another year) it falls even shorter. They brought in a kid that has a 47.4 (WOW!) in the 100 fly, and a 1:45.9 in the 200 fly (WOW!) and he's not even their best recruit. They've got a Lithuanian coming in who is a 44.9 in the 100 free, 54.1 in the 100 breaststroke, and 48.4 100 fly.

Definitely we have some guys to be excited about, but the math still doesn't work out for top-10 finishes.

Troskot is the guy who has a chance to start a new trend of scoring young...he was 34th at NCAA's in the 50 last year, and 12 guys ahead of him graduated. That leaves him having to sort of make up two-tenths on the field to make the B-Final as a sophomore. If you add a couple of very good breaststrokers (who got redshirts last year) in Dielmann and Suarez, it certainly makes the group look a lot better and much more versatile.

If you had to put a number on it, with what we know now that is, it would probably slot in around top-20 in the country.

[This message has been edited by AGBlastoff (edited 9/7/2011 12:15p).]

Luke originally committed to UVA. Something happened, and he changed his commitment to the good guys.

Good news for us. Pulling recruits away from the 8th-place team in the country is exciting stuff.

UVA is an excellent university with strong swimming. I wonder if our offer, with in state tuition, ended up a better overall package? It's great in any case to get a strong local kid on our roster.

Blastoff, I think that is the correct way to look at the class - unfortunately. The times listed didn't seem to pop off the page at all. Solid group, but no studs that can score at NC's until they develop more. Definitely nothing against this group, they really make up the core of the team. Just like in all sports, getting those blue chip guys is always the goal.

These type of guys are necessary to score relay points and have solid depth, but it seems that without 1-2 studs in every class its almost impossible to get into the top 10. From my observations we've been getting 1 stud every 2-3 years for as long as I can remember. Here' to hoping we have that foreign stud hiding away

Look at Duplechain's progression over the last few years. He was barely sub 2:00 in the IM as a junior, and then dropped to 1:51.4 at state. He dropped from 4:15 to 3:56 in the 400IM his senior year. And he's still a young body with a lot of "man growth" still to come. He's also a pretty solid freestyler, capable of high 46's right now. With A&M's strength program and some physical maturing, he's gonna be good.

[This message has been edited by 76Firebird (edited 9/14/2011 9:47p).]

Don't pretty much all freshman coming in have "mangrowth potential?" I mean unless Coach Holmes is bringing in LeBron James type body types every year, everyone has that potential to become studs. Also I agree H20polo but I do feel like the ultimate goal is to start making that a Texan stud every year instead of a foreign stud every 2-3 years. Maybe the SEC will help with this issue? who knows. But Coach Holmes and Coach Boyd know what they are doing so I can't wait to see what is in store for this year.

It appears that now A&M has to battle not only with Texas, but also with Harvard to get the top in-staters every year. They've been lighting up Texas recruiting.

I'm new here but this is a great topic.

I am somewhat close to a number of high school swimmers/divers in the Austin area.

I recently spoke to a very good swimmer in Austin who has olympic trials cuts (earned at junior nationals this summer). He was a state champion in 4A backstroke last year. He has a bunch of visits lined up over the next six weeks. A&M is not one of them. I asked him why not. He said he has spoken to Jay a few times. Including in person at his club one time. Jay has called him and the conversations were described as "we're still interested in you" but they go nowhere. So the kid is visiting Auburn, Missouri, LSU(!), Michigan, Texas (unofficial), and North Carolina. He has given up on A&M. He said Missouri is all over him and showing him lots of attention. He also raved about Missouri's incoming class. No way this kid could go to Harvard.

So my question is, does Jay typically recruit like this? It sounds like he expects the kid to come to him. Does he only try hard with kids that he thinks already know they want to go to A&M? I know this is only one kid. But is this how A&M recruits?

quote:

---

So my question is, does Jay typically recruit like this? It sounds like he expects the kid to come to him. Does he only try hard with kids that he thinks already know they want to go to A&M? I know this is only one kid. But is this how A&M recruits?

---

in short...yes

Yeah, since Rhodenbaugh signed on at Mizzou, they've become a recruiting force it seems, and unfortunately they recruit mostly the same areas that we do.

texagg09, does your thumbs up mean you like how this works? Or were you just agreeing.

If this is true it might explain a few things about our recruiting of male swimmers. From what I have seen of 17 year old boys, they are very prone to outside influence. And no way do they have their mind made up this early.

I think Jay is reluctant to make promises too early, or for that matter to schedule visits too early because they eat into the teams budget....

I'm all for waiting as long as possible to make sure you have as much info as you can for an informed decision.
That being said, perhaps it's time Jay needs to review the recruiting process : If the players in a game change their strategy, your old strategy may not be the most efficient anymore.

We also aren't operating on all the information here, perhaps Jay has a few top notch recruits lined up that we just don't know of??

This is funny:

Boris Loncaric PLAYER 6-4 5Sr. 3L Zagreb, Croatia (Sport)

Boris is a PLAYER!
From the roster on aggieathletics.com

Playa Playa!

Brings up a good point - not a freshman, but definitely an important "new" piece to the team this year. Having that backstroker allows everyone to shift back to more natural positions in those medley relays. Hopefully we don't have the relay meltdown that we did this year.

quote:

---

texagg09, does your thumbs up mean you like how this works? Or were you just agreeing.

---

i was mostly agreeing/answering your question. do i particularly like the way it works? not really. could changing the recruiting tactics help? maybe so, but its tough to argue with the success, as unconventional as the style is. seems like everytime someone questions the methods, you see a walk-on turned stud pop up (casey strange/jason bergstrom), and a foreign guy come through in the clutch (balazs/boris). lets not get into all the hypothetical "what if" scenarios, cuz we all know the common arguments that always pop up at these questions.

Aquabullet makes a good point about planning recruiting trips. its obvious by the guys they bring in/when their trips are, that Jay likes to bring in the "immediate impact" guys in the fall, to spend his scholarships early if need be to get the good ones. if a guy is going to take a trip who has the potential but wont be an immediate impact guy, Jay is going to wait until after the kid performs at sectionals/state to bring him in before he makes the call on the kid. like Aquabullet said, get all the info on the kid.

I'm not sure what the best approach is. I just know that many of these kids expect to be "sold" on a program. They haven't made their mind up. The kid I spoke to swims a 48 100 fly and 100 back right now. There is a reasonable chance he will be the fastest high school 100 fly guy in Texas next spring. Based on what he told me, Jay didn't try very hard.

^^^Casual observation - if he's got times like that already, he falls into the "immediate impact" category, especially with another two years of development before he has to swim a Big 12 or NCAA Championship meet.

Just looked up his times...Would have been A&M's top finisher at Big 12's last year (5th) in the 100 fly. Also goes 21.1/45.9 in the freestyles as a junior (and a young junior at that, didn't turn 17 until late June/July). He's ranked 12th in the country in the 100 fly in 2011 amongst 16 and 17 year olds. Ranked top 40 in the class overall at CS.

[This message has been edited by AGBlastoff (edited 9/19/2011 3:36p).]

The other thing we aren't really touching on here is that we will (more than likely) be in the SEC next year.

That brings up a whole host of questions about how do we best perform at conference while still focusing on NC's?

The way the Big 12 conference was on the men's side meant that you had a better chance of getting those crucial lower down placing points in the stroke and distance events, because there was a lack of depth there, due to there being only 3 teams.

In the SEC with the increase in teams, a lot more strategy is going to be required to get those lower points.

SO, I'd think we have to look at other teams' rosters, try guess where they'll recruit and combat that by either getting better walk-ons or focusing into other events, while still getting the best recruits we personally need for NC's.

Not that easy....

You can sit here and dwell on all the people the team has lost and think that the remedy would be to recruit 4 Balazs Makanys (who is by the way, a one of a kind swimmer, not easily recruited) but the truth is there's a lot more depth in this team.

Its already been mentioned but Loncaric is back and hopefully healthy. He could potentially be on all five relays and also score individually (he came top 8 in 09 ncaas, something nobody else, even Makany, has yet been able to do).
Don't forget sprinter Dalton who could also be on 5 relays (replacing Makany on the 400IM relay and being the fastest 50free split last year).
Fonua, who showed us last year he can literally sprint any stroke. He can fill any hole but will probably be better suited for the breaststrokes. Also featured in last year's 200free relay (leading off in a 20.0)
Ariens continues to drop time every year, so he is presumably the step in for the backstrokes.

Diving is going to be a big decisive factor in beating Missouri this year.

As for recruiting, it seems Coach Holmes prefers to let the program (including academics) speak for itself. It almost seems like a pride game, like a Highschooler would be lucky to get a roster spot. It doesn't work with the 'instant gratification' generation thats popping up now. High schoolers WANT you to WANT them...Its all ego with 17/18 year old kids.

My worry is the 800free relay: Dalton and Loncaric are the only two that come to mind. Makany is gone and I don't even know who swam it at Big XII's last year

[This message has been edited by aggieswimfan (edited 9/19/2011 7:00p).]

I know that kid. He swims for our high school. He is a bit raw, only swimming seriously for 2-3 years. Explosive speed. As for A&M recruiting him, I'm not gonna say much. I get in trouble here when I talk too much about recruiting.

quote:

---

Diving is going to be a big decisive factor in beating Missouri this year.

---

This should never be a problem.

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 9/19/2011 8:14p).]

I'll put it out there - Missouri has a very good diving program as well. Maybe not quite to the level of the Nel-McLean duo after Dante Jones graduated, but they have David Bonuchi who was 8th on the 3-meter and 4th on the platform at NCAA's last year as a freshman. We're not going to just blow away Missouri in diving at Big 12's...I think they actually outscored us last year...

With the competitive nature of the very-limited number of scholarships at the NCAA level, I can't blame the kids for wanting to be wanted. I'm not going to wait and sign in the spring if there's a possibility that Texas or somewhere else is going to offer me 25% in the fall. That money's not going to be there after Sectionals or State. Not saying A&M coaches are doing it the wrong way, but I don't think it's fair to give a kid a hard time for taking his trips to the teams that show a real interest in him.

I imagine Shaw will be a part of the 800 free relay. The beauty of that relay is that the NCAA is so weak in the 200 free right now, that even by finishing legally last year you would've scored a point in the race. 1:37.4's would've scored you 6 points at NCAA's last year. Not great, but not bad either.

Whoever brought up about the differences between the Big 12 and the SEC is spot on. The Big 12 conference meet is almost a farce at some level...you put swimmers in events that they are horrendous at just for the points. We had two breaststrokers swim the 100 back, and put a 57.70 in the A-final at Big 12's, and it scored 11 points! The SEC, just by the nature of the pure number of teams, is a whole different strategy. There's no freebie points at the SEC Championships.

[This message has been edited by AGBlastoff (edited 9/19/2011 8:37p).]

[This message has been edited by AGBlastoff (edited 9/19/2011 8:39p).]

Shouldn't A&M be able to beat Missouri without any divers at all? Jeez if it is getting that close then we are getting the NASA level "Houston we have a problem."

quote:

---

Shouldn't A&M be able to beat Missouri without any divers at all? Jeez if it is getting that close then we are getting the NASA level "Houston we have a problem."

---

THIS!
The 2 teams should never be close. I don't care if Eddie Reese is coaching there