If anyone wants to know what is wrong with college tennis in the new millineum then they need go no farther than Waco, Texas. If the coaches that make up the govening body of the ITA don't take bold moves to regulate the influx of Professional Players participating for schools like Baylor and others then the slippery slope we are now on will deliver us to a place the founders of the collegiate sport had no intention.

In the past ten years we have lost the consicous of the sport. Coaches like Dan Magill, Dave Snyder, Tut Bartzen, David Kent and others like them were cartakers of this sport on the college level. They have been replaced with tennis pimps like Matt Knoll who is the antithesis of all that is wrong with the college game. I for one , have no stomach for thisbrand of street hustler who prowls the professional ranks for players who are willing to lie to their school and the NCAA. They meander their way through the Clearinghouse and gain elegibility through pretense. Guys like Dortch and Becker , while nice guys, have no place in college tennis. And I hope that coaches like Tim Cass and others will not be tempted to bring in players with similar credentials who only come to play for one semester then leave the scene with no inverstment in their school other than a footnote on some team picture . Please don't recruit these guys.

Hopfully, the coaches will find the unity to realize that for the long term good of College Tennis things must change. The Aggies lost in the Big 12 Finals to a team of seasoned pros. Wasn't really a fair fight, then again..it wasn't suppose to be.



[This message has been edited by rikochet (edited 5/2/2004 11:16p).]

Name one thing illegal that Knoll has done.

I thought Aggies were supposed to be gracious in defeat. This whiny, poor me BS is supposed to be reserved for Longhorns.

Posting on an Aggie board does not make the poster an Aggie. Your presence here proves that.

Who exactly has come in for one semester to play tennis and then left? Maybe there was one homesick kid along the way but I sure don't recall one. By and large, the Baylor players are good students who get their degrees and several of them come back to attend matches and continue to support the team after their playing days.

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of the garbage you posted except to say the timing of it is typical. Anybody else remember all the BS that a few coaches stirred up this time last year? What ever came of that?

I have to agree that I dont like the idea of foreign players taking those spots. I have very strong feelings about that. however, you cant argue with the fact that knoll runs a good program, and they win. you dont get to be #2 in the nation with just luck. He is doing something right, and although I am a huge advocate against his players, I will give him due credit for his results.

The bottom line is that the NCAA wont ever change these rules, fair or not. the ncaa is a jacked up organization with a lot of screwy rules, not just with tennis or with foreign players. thats how it is gonna be for a long time.

that being said, I hope baylor represents the big 12 well and does good in the tourney.

You know what's funny...

There's no mention of Baylor in the title of this thread, but the bears are starting to flock to it. Are they a little paranoid? I'm not sure, but I just found it humerous.

quote:

---

I hope that coaches like Tim Cass and others will not be tempted to bring in players with similar credentials who only come to play for one semester then leave the scene with no inverstment in their school other than a footnote on some team picture

---

Does the name Mohamed Dakki ring a bell???

I sure hope this is not an Ag posting this crap....

Last time I checked this was America unless you want to turn into the old Soviet empire then brining foregin kids is totally legal..If this is Knolls philosopy then so be it good luck. The point is you can win with the best americans look at Stanford, Gerogia, UCLA, and Cass has done a good job in getting good American players..So I say go aTm and baylor in the NCAA's...

It's not a foreign players issue, it's a professional player issue. College sports isn't intended to be a pro sport.

I think that the influx of foreign players has only strengthened college tennis and allowed smaller schools a shot at competing with the typical sports power houses. What I dont agree with is what some of these school are doing and getting away with. It is a known fact that when these european players go home they play for their respected clubs and in many instances receive money for their play. I play for a relatively small school, but we have players on our team who play for their club team and receive money for the their matches. They also said they know its illegal but is almost impossible to track and that the players from schools like Baylor are most certainly doing the same thing. For example... Germany has a very strong club tennis league throughout its nation and most of the players on those teams are pro's or college kids all receiving money whether they report it or not. something has to be done, i have no idea what to monitor this. But it is not fair to expect some kid from the united states to be able to compete against a 20, 21 year old freshman who has been grinding his last few years out on futures circuits and club teams playing to make a living.

Rubber band man hit it on the nail. Recently ITA coaches voted to limit the age of ALL entering freshmen to no older than 20. The days of the guy four or five years out of high school playing the tour and collecting money then entering college as a player are coming to an end and not a moment to soon.

My reply to baylor tennis fans who ask what has knoll done is simple. Besides being the only coach in the big 12 to have his team put on ncaa probation, he went out and recruited guys like Benidict Dorsch who has career prise money way beyond "expenses allowed" and even posed for a picture published a year ago before the tournament in
Athens of him standing behind a giant check for 10K in a challenger event in europe. The facts are there. If knoll has to compete on a level playing field his advantage is over. Wait and watch.....Winners never cheat and cheaters never win....well not for long anyway.....

^
^
^

Sour grapes.

A&M has always had a fine tennis program. Be proud of the Aggies for their accomplishments. No need to bash the Bears for theirs.

I just love it when you call a cheater a cheater, and they claim that you are jealous. Bears...get a grip. This has been an issue in the NCAA lately, and Baylor is not the only program that hires, I mean recruits, professional tennis players.

With that said, it is up to the NCAA to crack down on this practice.

rikochet,

class of?

The issue of utilizing the international players is really that they are 2-3 years older than the US freshman and they have a couple of years experience on the pro tour.

This gives the coaches that fill their teams with international players, an aadvantage due to physical maturity, emotional maturity and the vast experience due to the higher level of playing on the tour.

I have talked to 4 college coaches about this and what they struggle with is providing the opportunity for students to get an education and excel in their sport, but with:

a level playing field.

In other words, removing the advantage of 20-21 year old freshmen that have been on the tour.

How do you do that without discriminating against an applicant due to age?

Require 2 years experience before playing on the team?

Sign up US players for 6 years and red shirt them for the first 2years?

Send them out to futures and challengers when they can?

How do you do that on 4.5 scholarships and limited budgets?

Think of the bigger picture here, not just focusing on the wins and losses.

Baylor beat the AGs 4-0 last Sunday, sound sbad, but the AGs came yet another step closer to winning. Look at how many matches went 3 sets.

Baylor can be beaten, they have lost twice this year. Vanderbuilt beat them pretty good in the round of 8 last year.

Our guys are slowly figuring out how to beat them. Skill is one thing, strategy and tactics are also needed out there on the court. They will figure it out.

Meanwhile, enjoy their matches, their play and their success.

If the Aggies had just won three straight Big 12 regular season and tourney titles by utilizing foreign players, would the A&M fans be complaining about it? I don't think so.

If the NCAA wants to change the rules, it needs to do so. Until then, what Baylor and other programs have done is perfectly legal in the eyes of the NCAA, whether certain bitter opponents like it or not.

You win, but get no respect!!! AH!
Jon

Bear03,

I'm sick of you continually trying to make this about us just being upset that we lost. The fact of the matter is that we wouldn't be upset if we had won 3 Big 12 titles utilizing foreign players BECAUSE we don't and WON'T have a team full of foreign players.

I, for one, am proud of the fact that while we typically have a few foreigners on our team, we compete with a majority of American players. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Yep, I am sure that the timing of the original post has nothing to do with the fact you lost.

Right.

Best of luck to the Ags in the NCAA's. As I stated earlier, you have always had a great tennis program. I would love to see an all Big 12 national championship match.

Mohammed Dakki is a good player and a fine individual but having him on our team makes us no "better" than Baylor in terms of experienced international players. Mohammed was born in 1979 folks.

It's not so much about international players but about the fact that, like some of you have mentioned, the Baylor players are older and more mature. Lester Cook is a junior who just turned 20 a few weeks ago. I guarantee that he'll be able to blow the Baylor Germans off the court by the time he's 23, like they are. I would be willing to bet that some of our freshmen will be just as good, if not better than the Germans by the time they're 23. Unfortunately, when they are 23 their eligbility will have long since expired.

There is a huge difference in the mental and physical maturity of a 23 year-old man and 19-20 year-olds like Joelson, Rolle, and Wooten. With that having been said, there is nothing stopping Americans from training for a couple of years after high school and entering as 20 year-old freshmen. This situation is just going to raise the level of college tennis and maybe force American players to redshirt a year or two, which is unfortunate, but maybe necessary.

I'm sure that there was a similar reaction to the first black athletes recruited in football and basketball when it was found that many of them were superior to the white athletes. What happened there? The white kids had to work harder to get a spot, the black kids were eventually accepted and found their place in the sport, and now they coexist in (relative) harmony. Let's face it, the Euros have just as much of a right to play college tennis that black folks do. There will be a day when all of this will taper off and then people will be pissed off because Tech is winning with Martians.

My main point is, if we're going to have a Mohammed Dakki, we can't really go pointing fingers at Baylor just because they have more ringers and their ringers are better than ours. Coaching is Knoll's livelihood and he is called to vigorously pursue the best players available to the full extent of NCAA rules (and he has obviously gone beyond the rules at least once, but that is a different argument). Seriously, you think he's going to turn down those Germans based on some unwritten "coaching code" that you should try to win with as many domestic players as possible? As long as he's following the rules, there's not much we can say without looking like (I hate to admit they are right, but) sore losers.

quote:

---

Bear03,

I'm sick of you continually trying to make this about us just being upset that we lost. The fact of the matter is that we wouldn't be upset if we had won 3 Big 12 titles utilizing foreign players BECAUSE we don't and WON'T have a team full of foreign players.

I, for one, am proud of the fact that while we typically have a few foreigners on our team, we compete with a majority of American players. I wouldn't want it any other way.

---

So are you ashamed of our foreigners?

I, for one, am proud of the fact that we can bring guys halfway across the world and that they can become Aggies and embrace our traditions and be an integral part of the team and Aggie family. Ante, Mohammed, Khaled, and Marvin are great kids and comprise half of the guys that play. Why is it OK to win with half foreigners but not a whole team of foreigners? Is being half wrong any better than being totally wrong? If we had won, would our championship be only half tainted?

You guys really are a bunch of crybabies. Baylor can go to hell, not because they're foreign -- because they're BAYLOR!

Shut up and support our guys (foreign AND American).

If you need proof that Baylor is not the only team who brings in foreigners who are also great players, take a look at the All Big 12 Team released today.

http://baylorbears.collegesports.com/sports/m-tennis/spec-rel/050404aaa.html

The only American to make the singles team is A&M's own Lester Cook.

I agree with the spirit of the last two posts. Knoll and Cass are oblgated to recruit the best players they can to their respective programs (provided they are eligible in the eyes of the NCAA). If you don't like Baylor because we are conference rivals, that's fine. That's the way it should be. To say that you don't like us because we have foreign players (something A&M has as well) is hypocritical at best.

The issue here has nothing to do with foreign players at all. It has to do with professional players playing college tennis. Check out the rules. According to the NCAA if you accept more than expense money you are ineligible to play college tennis. Those mentioned above are pros. So that is that. Foreign players like Ante Mateavic are credits to their university. Great kid, good student and came to ATM as an 18 year old. That is the key. He is what college tennis is about. And with the recent ruling there will be a change. Yea! Let the games begin.....

well said rikochet.......I believe foreign players only strengthen the game, but when its a foreign player coming over after a couple of years on the tour give me a break. How is that fair. An 18 year old foreigner fresh out of high school and juniors is supposed to be able to keep pace with a 20 or 21 year old freshman, who has been playing for his livelihood, lets be realistic. There is a reason why seniors are leaders and it comes from experience, you rarely see a freshman that can handle the pressures of college tennis and playing atop a lineup for a team in the top 20. Unless that Freshman or sophomore, is used to it from previous experience....(ie. Benedikt Dorsch)..nuff said

Two words...

Mohammed Dakki.

What you said about Matejevic being a great student and a credit to his university could be said about any of the Baylor players as well.

Read my previous posts. The key here is the NCAA. There are no secrets regarding any of the Baylor players. FULL DISCLOSURE has been provided by Baylor officials in matters pertaining to their eligibility. The NCAA has deemed them to be eligible. A&M, had it wanted to, could have recruited these same players to its program and IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECTLY LEGAL. Baylor has not done anyhting that other schools could have also done, and many (including A&M) have taken advantage of the same rule structure. Baylor's only crime, apparently, is getting better players than just about everyone else.

quote:

---

FULL DISCLOSURE has been provided by Baylor officials in matters pertaining to their eligibility.

---

Surely you jest. You think Baylor (or any other schools) coaches don't know how the German/[insert country here] club league works?

Full disclosure on what can be tracked maybe. But those club payments........

Boo-hoo-hoo Aggies......

You guys are a joke. Go look at Big XII mens tennis honors for this season and I believe A&M has 3 players listed, 2 of which are from abroad.

As I have said before if you guys were #2 in the country and consistently winning the Big XII a thread like this would never have been started. Get a grip.

Win ---- but get no respect AH.
Jan

Grandma must be mentally challenged. Baylor is currently @2 due to the fact that they use talented mid 20 aged German club players. If either Texas A&M or Texas wanted to get into the pro player business they would have guys that would blow bu away. Mo Dakki was a bad decision on Coach Cass's part imho. I hope in the future he choses to go the development route and stick with young guys who belong in the varsity ranks. As for knolls trolls...well I guess we have to wait for commencement....

I think Baylor should look into what Boris Becker is doing now. He is done with his pro tennis so he would have a perfect fit in the Baylor program. And Kiefer has been up and down this year as well. If Baylor can get those guys then they could certainly make an explaination as to why becker plays 4.