I know it's been talked about many times before, but i was curious to see the ages of the UCLA and Baylor top 6....

Baylor
1. Benedikt Dorsch - Germany, senior, 24
2. Benjamin Becker - Germany, senior, 24
3. Lars Poerschke - Germany, freshman, 21
4. Michal Kokta - Czech, sophomore, 21
5. Matija Zgaga - Slovenia, sophomore, 22
6. Vladimir Portnov - Russia, sophomore, 21

UCLA
1. Luben Pampoulov - Austria, senior, 24
2. Benjamin Kohlloeffel - Germany, sophomore, 23
3. Kris Kwinta - Poland, senior, 25
4. Chris Lam - USA, senior, 21
5. Alberto Francis - Texas, senior, 23
6. Philipp Gruendler - Germany, sophomore, 22

might as well just open it up to professionals.....

next year A&M might not have a single foreign player or anyone over the age of 21 in the top 6.

totally ridiculous. I just read a tennis article on the front page, and there was only one name in the entire article I could pronounce. I'm new to this discussion, but why should taxpayers be paying $100's of thousands of dollars to give free educations to 25 year old foreigners in NON-REVENUE sports?

Well to be fair, tax payers pay none of Baylor's players tuition, and if we toe the line that our sports program is self sufficent, we can't complain about some of the funds being used on foreign players. If we don't think our programs are self sufficent, than the real problem would be taxpayers paying the ridiculous football coaches salries.

94chem,

How exactly is your money paying anything at Baylor?

i'm assuming he means any and all americans around the country paying for foreign kids to play for public schools in their respective states.

however, especially at A&M and most other big schools, donors and athletic departments pay for the majority of athletic scholarships, not the schools themselves.

that said, i like what cass is doing...recruiting the best americans, and even texans. he's not recruiting exclusively american just to make a point, but rather because he knows that with our facilites and his experience, he can develop players from his own backyard instead of buying them up in some kind of "mail-order tennis player" arms race.

sure, we'll always have a few guys from overseas, and there is nothing wrong with that. but our team will never be 90% foreign.

Those players aren't that much older. Wouldn't any redshirt freshman be 20 years old at this point? A senior who had redshirted would be 23 at this time of year.

731,

exactly. I'm not a huge tennis fan, but I've seen enough to know that the top female players are usually teenagers, and the top male players are usually in their late teens or early 20's. Of course, there are the exceptions of those who achieved greatness, like Davenport, Capriati, Navratilova, Agassi, Connors, Courier, Sampras...

My point is that by age 20 a guy can tell if he's gonna make it as a pro. So, what's happening here? Are these European guys trying to make the pro tour, flaming out at age 21, then deciding to extend their "pro" careers by going to Baylor, USC, and Duke for 4 years? I mean, if they were serious about becoming pros, how could they have not jeopardized their amateur status by age 20? Is there some huge European cottage industry where parents support these guys' unpaid tennis careers from age 17 to age 21? Seems highly unlikely to me. Sorry if all these questions have been rehashed before - like I said, I'm new to this. Is this just something that the NCAA doesn't care about because it's non-revenue, or is there something I'm missing? Thanks.

quote:

---

Those players aren't that much older. Wouldn't any redshirt freshman be 20 years old at this point? A senior who had redshirted would be 23 at this time of year.

---

C'mon Bear. Don't play dumb here.
Redshirt in tennis doesn't happen to good players and I doubt any of these guys were ever redshirted.
A guy that redshirts is a guy that might peak out at about #5.
Note, i'm not picking on any school in particular here. Just the state of college tennis.

Actually, most of these guys play at european high school equivalnets that act as sports magnet schools. That why when you look at their high schools it often says Gymnasium as part of the name. Additionally, unlike in the US where kids graduate when they are usually 18, over there the last grade is usually taken when they are 19. This puts them a year older from the onset. Thats why I do not care too much about the ones that start as 19-20 year old freshman. Thats really only a year older than most freshman. Now the ones who start as 21 year old freshman make you wonder what they did in that extra year. Some of the countries require a year of military service so that takes care of some. And some of the guys go to the equivalent of a prep school, so that explains others. But that does not explain them all, and that is the question that needs to be answered.

Let's not be hypocritical. Our own Mohammed Dakki will turn 26 in September, making him older than any of the players mentioned above.

quote:

---

Let's not be hypocritical. Our own Mohammed Dakki will turn 26 in September, making him older than any of the players mentioned above.

---

See my comment....the state of college tennis. Not xxx school.

I'd hardly call this being hypocritical. It's sad across the board in college tennis. From A&M to Podunk U.

dakki was over here playing in michigan, had to go home for family issues, and then 9/11 happened. he could not get back in to the country whether he wanted to or not. when his visa was cleared, he came back to america to finish out school and his athletic eligibility, and ended up at A&M.

not trying to defend or make excuses for anyone...just giving some info.

yes we've heard the Dakki story.

Problem is once you allow a gray area, it just opens the door for more stories.

Not picking on his case. It's everywhere in college tennis.

i understand, and i agree.

i think we wasted our time getting dakki another year anyway. at least it will help him get a degree, but i doubt he sees much court time next year.

most of bu and co's players flamed out in the euro circuits and come on down to the states.

gotta love the ncaa...no jeremy bloom, but if you're a 30 year old from europe, get in there.

what a joke.

I understand that starting in August the NCAA rules change. A player's 5 year elgibility window begins no later than one year after HS graduation. This is commonly called the "Baylor" rule.

I am sure you can appeal for things like JM's graduating HS at 13 and the 2 year Morman missions.

did they scrap the 20 year old rule, amend it to this rule, or are they both being implemented?

[This message has been edited by txag731 (edited 5/29/2005 6:30p).]

How utterly stupid to say this is "commonly called the Baylor rule". To think that Baylor innovated recruiting foreign athletes is foolish. Baylor was late to the game, in fact, and what Baylor does is the same thing that 90% of the other US universities do. The "rule" was urged by coaches from A&M, Tulsa, Vanderbilt, and Illinois, and it's a reasonable rule, but to call it "the Baylor rule" is idiotic. Of course, European students don't finish high school until they're 19, so it's not unusual to see a player like Becker, who is 24 and has finished four years at Baylor, and has been academic All Big 12 each year. A legitimate student. Kokta, who went to NYU at Prague as a freshman and to Baylor as a soph, had a 4.0 this year.

A&M tennis fans are simply obsessed with Baylor to the point of having no objectivity about the issues. Some of the posts on this thread are objective and fair, but the general tone of A&M fans regarding Baylor lack objectivity to the point that they are not credible.

r u portly portly?

Yes.... Baylor like many other privates schools grades on the Stanford scale. Come to class 4.0 GPA, do not come to class 3.0 GPA. For most kids other than athletes the challenge is getting in the school not succeeding once you are in.

portly

can you give me a little info about the guys y'all signed for next year. i haven't been able to find anything on any baylor websites, unless it's been posted very recently.

thanks

btw portly...can you give me a little background on zgaga. he was a 22 year old sophomore, correct? i graduated from A&M and am starting grad school in the fall, and i haven't turned 22 yet. what did he do between high school and baylor? just wondering.

of course he played in the German pro leagues, no question about it.

uhm zgaga is from slovenia...not that this makes any difference but before baylor he played some international futures and challenger events both in europe and the u.s.a.



[This message has been edited by txmm05 (edited 6/2/2005 1:42a).]

Well to be fair, slovenia students are in high school until they are 19. That would only leave one year unaccounted for if he started college as a 21 year old. Not sure how quickly one can get from a european high school to a american university; I am sure there is some red tape to get through. That being said, I am sure he played in some futures tournaments and stuff like that. I don't think we know or will ever know what kind of money he made if any during that year.

close to $8000.is that significant amongst college players who play in pro tourneys?or do they just do it for the experience and dont accept the $$?

http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/default2.asp?playersearch=zgaga

[This message has been edited by txmm05 (edited 6/2/2005 2:41p).]