I will never believe that Shoeless Joe bagged the '18 World Series; AND I WILL NEVER believe that Floyd cheated.

It just is not in him. I truly believe that he had rather lose to his close friend Oscar in a man's battle than to cheat and win.

I am not saying there is a conspiracy against him and American Cycling, but rather a possible physical/chemical/scientific/BS explanation for why his levels were that high.

When I drink Whisky, my testosterone probably does funny things. And I am not even riding a bike like a mad-man for 5 hours over unbelievable terrain!!

The thing that makes it hard for me to believe (even though the evidence (if it isn't tainted) is overwelming) is his background. He comes from a family and community that would have nothing to do with that kind of stuff.

it seems fishy. why would he use synthetic testosrone when it's easily detected? there are other drugs out there (ask lance) that are un-detectable.

and prior to the tour they had that big ass doping fiasco, why would he risk it when he knew that doping would be under a big microscope?

you people are ridiculus. he has tested positive and you just say i dont believe it. but bonds hasnt ever tested positive and he is condemmed to hell for steroid use. i dont care about his background. he is busted. someday these athletes will just quit lieing when they get caught

Yea, my tesosterone level is abnormally high, and it's all natural. This will go down as one of the most shameful stories in American sport.

I love the world we live in.. innocent until proven guilty never seems to apply. However, in Landis's case the evidence is agaisnt him and of now is guilty..

My personal opinion is that something is up with the Cycling World. Landis comes from a good background and find it hard to believe he cheated..

If he cheated, he needs to fess up.. If it is reveealed that his urine was tainted but an outside source, Cycling should just fold. The french HATE Americans with a passion. So with all the stuff with L. Armstrong, maybe this is there way to get back at us for dominating their sport..

I will leave you with this, I had a bunch of lab work done on myself a month ago for work purposes and insurance. I take a vitamin B12 supplement and when we got the lab results back, some of the lab results were off.. Went off the the vitamin supplement for three days and was re-tested and everything is normal..

You can never predict how everyone's body will react to medicines and supplements because we are all different and that is what makes my job so great and challenging at the same time..



True heroism is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost But the urge to serve others at whatever cost

[This message has been edited by docbow (edited 8/6/2006 8:54a).]

quote:

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The french HATE Americans with a passion.

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So how long did you live in France?

I was in France for about a year.

True heroism is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost But the urge to serve others at whatever cost

i understand that the results can be affected by all sorts of things. didnt you hear all his excuses. he had four of them the last i counted. at least stick with one excuse if you are going to fight it.

The most strange aspect is that the drug does not match with the sport or timing. There are a ton of other substances that would be better for a cyclist to take.

someone got docbowned

I've been to France off and on since the early nineties, and I've never been the recipient of any HATE towards myself or any of my colleagues. I will admit the politics are different there than here, but I would sooner consider the French people in general more as rivals in some arenas than people that hate us.

Whatever nebules, you got served!

He's losing in the court of public opinon. Only 28% of the voters on espn.com think he's innocent.

On the bandwagon since birth. Raised in the bleachers of Kyle, Olsen, and G. Rollie White

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/06/sports/bike.php

Interesting stuff in this article.


More:

"I put in more than 20,000 kilometers of training for the Tour," he told USA Today for a story posted on the newspaper's Web site Sunday night. "I won the Tour of California, Paris-Nice and the Tour de Georgia. I was tested eight times at the Tour (de France); four times before that stage and three times after, including three blood tests. Only one came back positive. Nobody in their right mind would take testosterone just once; it doesn't work that way."

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2541883

[This message has been edited by bogustrumper (edited 8/7/2006 11:21a).]

bogustrumper

my thoughts exactly! I cannot imagine one shot the night before helping him any at all. Further, I have not read anything that says what the benefit of it would be.

I would welcome any enlightenment on the issue.

Nebules is a Frenchie lover.

You ought to be ashamed!

I want to believe that he's innocent, and the fact that only one of his tests came back positive (and by a wide margin) seems very strange. Also, I think the way the doping organization has handled the situation (leaking information to the media) really sucks.

However, I think like most sports fans I'm becoming jaded by the seemingly endless stream of high profile athletes busted for doping. I haven't heard any convincing alternative explanation for the failed test, and by his own admission the multitude of different excuses offered up hurts his credibility.

Count me in the group that really wants to believe Floyd, but I think he's guilty. I think they're all guilty. The test is borderline infallible for testing synthetic testosterone, which is what he had.

With all this talk, I can't help but remember this article from early on from Austin Murphy at SI. People wonder how he could test positive for one day for testosterone, yet we have this info from a doctor stating exactly how testosterone could aid in recovery in the middle of the Tour.

quote:

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Even before Landis finished Stage 17, when he pulled back most of the time he had lost the previous day, the whispers had begun. Allen Lim, Landis' trainer, took pains in the days that followed to point out that the effort put forth by Landis in that heroic, Tour-saving stage was generally in line with "what he's done in training." The anomaly had been the bonk the previous day.

Then you read what German doctor Kurt Moosburger recently told Cyclingnews.com: "You can do a hard Alpine stage without doping. But after that, the muscles are exhausted. You need -- depending on your training conditions -- up to three days in order to regenerate."

To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used. "Both are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he said. "They help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

Dr. Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard testosterone patch that is used for male hormone-replacement therapy on your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is not sufficient to produce a positive urine result in the doping test, but the body actually recovers faster."

It would be funny -- if it weren't heartbreaking -- to think that as he sat outside the team hotel last Wednesday night, explaining his collapse, Landis was already getting a little help from a patch on a tender part of his anatomy.

So I flat-out asked him if he'd done the patch thing, and he told me he hadn't. All he can do now is wait for the B sample and, after that, hope another test proves that he's in a very elevated percentile of men, who go through life with more than their share of testosterone.

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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html

Original article:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2006/landis_beer

I'm willing to give Floyd his day in court, but I am not hopeful.

[This message has been edited by Atty_Ag (edited 8/9/2006 10:38a).]

Atty_Ag

Thanks for the info. I had not seen that article.

Floyd doesn't stand a chance in any French or Euro court.

The patch on the balls theory made me laugh out loud! I guess that one is better than the crystallized tablet in the beer theory.

That is what the TdF is now...a complete joke.

The French have spent more time trying to discredit rather than celebrate the TdF's greastest champion ever in Lance Armstrong. Floyd was easy pickings.

The governing international body of cycling and the Tour de France officials just can't seem to get a plan together. Zero professionalism. Too much opinion and emotion. They create problems for the sport by the consistent mishandling of almost everything. There have been problems from the beginning and most notably the last 15 years. I think that because of this many mistakes have been made. More than an overhaul is needed.

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-uci-doping&prov=ap&type=lgns

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-ullrich-bloodsample&prov=ap&type=lgns


[This message has been edited by bogustrumper (edited 8/9/2006 5:19p).]

If he had a naturally high level of it he wouldn't just flunked one test by a longshot and passed every other one. The story doesn't hold water.

Either way, he will have a hard time proving his innocence. Once you are accused of cheating, you are assumed to be a liar as well. His "defense" has been inconsistent, and not exactly convincing.

I agree...I think the guy was in shock and now he is just reeling. He is done and the TdF as well as professional cycling has zero credibility.

[This message has been edited by bogustrumper (edited 8/10/2006 10:55a).]