was the run in the early millenium just a product of madden or did something else happen with personnel or staff that drove the drop in the program?

how far away is mens tennis from getting to be a consistent top 10-15 program? do you guys view this as being feasible?

sorry for the general questions, just curious.

Coryhub - this was during your time buddy. I'll let you reply to this one before I get my hands dirty with an answer...

from 98-02 this team was consistently in the top 10...it started with cass and his vision and all the players he brought in bought into this idea of building something special and wanting to be apart of it...during that time we all had a "chip" on the shoulder wanting to prove ourselves and would work our ass off to do it...our team was so close and just had that urgency to do whatever it took and it was something that cass instilled in us...then madden being one of the best players in the country just fueled that belief its so much easier to have confidence when you know your best player is always going to compete his ass off and will win everytime out...if you look at the best teams in the country it all starts with the # 1 (UCLA-koellofel..Baylor- Dorsch,Becker...Georgia -Isner,Flores...Illinois - Delic...Stanford -too many...A&M-Madden) so basically to be one of the best teams in the country you have to have that top gun at # 1....when your team goes into a match knowing regardless of opponent that you will be up 1-0 bc of stud and prob 2-0 bc he will win dbls its such a huge momentum swing bc then it only takes 2 more wins for the match and any average team can pick up 2 wins....even after madden left, the team was still in the upper echelon bc newport and cook were also top 15 guys and filled that void...but i also think some of that "chip" with something to prove is not there anymore, i dont think this teams of the past few years have that urgency and attitude that the teams of 98-04 had

You said it for me Cory. And its not that todays players don't work hard. If anyone has ever watched the workouts that Monty puts the boys through, you know that the physically, they can compete. But the problem is that every team in the top 40 works physically hard. They all have a strength and condition coach - they all bust butt. And what Cory said is correct - you need that #1 stud that has the flame and desire. And you need that bottom rotation that fights and claws and refuses to lose (i.e.- Bain - wish the team had 5 more of him). I thought Jerry would be that stud - and he arguably has - at times. He is too up and down, sometimes getting blown out by players no better than him. Madden brought the mad dog every single point.

It just seems that todays players are living off that Aggie team of old. Aggie tennis captivated fans during those glory days. Those fans continue to come back, looking for a glimpse of that same team atmosphere and desire. For some reason, it just isn't there. Maybe it will take a few classes of players that never knew the old coaches. It just seems like the youthful exuberance and desire to defend the home court and battle on the road no longer exists.

cass came in and put that gotta earn respect mentality and not gonna back down attitude with a refusal to settle for anything else regardless of what programs we play against and regardless of what our program history was....it seems very similar to the hoops program...cass and BCG are very comparable...

so is it possible to develop that #1 or do you have to recruit some badass and it is what it is?

what are y'all's thoughts on the new coach?

Right now you have a serious transition with a new coach, it isn't a question of working hard in practice, as mentioned they do. I have watched them also.

There is no team spirit. No unity, no fire.

Jerry and Bain are individuals, not leaders. Up until this year the fire came from Lester, Ante, Wooten, Khalid, Joelson, Nallon, and Marcus Lunt.

Lester is gone, Khalid is gone, Ante is gone
and Marcus is gone. That is a lot of turn over in a short time.

Cass is gone, but even with him, it was the players that generated the team spirit, he just provided the motivation to build the spirit as a good coach should.

This year we have no number one dominating player or number 2 dominating player. We have a lot of 3-4-5-6 players.

Don't put Bain anywhere but on 6 or he loses.
Jerry is ineffective in doubles and is so-so in singles thus far.

Nallon, Joelson and Wooten who made up the 3-4-5 player rotation, are in their senior year, should be leading the team and they are not playing.

We have several freshmen in the lineup that have no experience, and our experienced leaders are sitting on the bench. This in itself creates the wrong atmosphere for the team. The coach apparently does not yet know the players or as he has stated, basically believes this is a throw away year and he is working on next year because his seniors will be gone after this semester. That is not an Aggie spirit.

You can see the players are not fired up, they do not talk to each other on the court as previous teams under Cass, they are not helping each other, they have no spirit.

Denton is the reason for that. He is not into the Aggie culture, he has orange blood. The players do not like him, so when you watch them play you can see the lack of motivation and desire and spirit.

This drives the performance we see. It is a new regime folks and I for one don't like it. I spend my time watching the lady Aggies Tennis team as much as possible. The men are starting over.

They are down to 28 now in the ITA, you can expect they will be a number 30 something team next week.

its pretty tough to develop a #1....it has to be stud recruit with lots of experience...most of the development is from your mid level players that have not had the experience....its rare that you sign a kid that will play 6 as a fresh...then move up to 4 as soph..then 2-3...then 1...you look to recruit a guy that can play 1-2 for 4 years then fill in and develop the other guys into solid 3-6 players

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It is a new regime folks and I for one don't like it. I spend my time watching the lady Aggies Tennis team as much as possible. The men are starting over.

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This isn't always a bad thing... Look at baseball: unfortunately sometimes you have to clean house to get moving in a new direction.

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Denton is the reason for that. He is not into the Aggie culture, he has orange blood. The players do not like him, so when you watch them play you can see the lack of motivation and desire and spirit.

This drives the performance we see. It is a new regime folks and I for one don't like it. I spend my time watching the lady Aggies Tennis team as much as possible. The men are starting over

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This is stupid. Pretty sure the basketball team didn't like BCG his first year either. Way to put it all on the new coach in his first couple months on the job.....

If Denton can recruit, the team will succeed. I could care less if he has orange blood or green. Until we see what kind of recruits he brings in, we won't know how successful he'll be. Have fun watching the women who as a program have repeatedly shown they can't get over the hump into the upper echelon.

I wouldn't jump to say that the 'orange blood' that Denton has is the reason for the teams demise. However, Cass did embrace the Aggie Spirit and understood the culture. He loved fish camp (wish he would have had a camp named for him), the 12th Man, and everything about the University. He was much more than a tennis coach. I guess thats why I'm hesitant to believe in Coach Denton. Same reason I am hesitant to believe in Coach Fran. They just don't seem to have the 'IT' quality that connects the players to the fans to the university. BCG has 'IT'.

Now, when it comes to Wooten/Joeslon and other seniors not playing - maybe Denton sees something that Cass either ignored or was forced to because of a shallow roster. TexAgs is the last place on earth to be calling out individual athletes, but you would be surprised at the poor work ethic and attitudes of some of our players.

Cory is right about a #1 - he can't just come in as a good player and be made. He has to come is great and be refined. Tennis is a funny game. The kids that are great start very very young. Most college coaches could watch a 13 year old and tell you if he/she has the stuff to play on a college roster 6 years down the road. No doubt there are exceptions and late player development, but tennis just doesn't happen. Great athletes don't become great tennis players. Great tennis players are great athletes .

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Denton is the reason for that. He is not into the Aggie culture, he has orange blood. The players do not like him, so when you watch them play you can see the lack of motivation and desire and spirit.

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Give the guy a chance, he has been here barely a semester and a half. You cant ALWAYS pin this on the coach, although, it does have a lot to do with the coach. His spirit flows through the guys. But, it can be just a down year, or the new guys arent buying into Denton. Look at Cass' first year in 97...they were 9-14. And look where he took the program.

Now anyone who has been on here long enough (cory for one) knows my history with Cass. I had some personal issues with the guy, but you cant argue with his record at A&M. He was a great coach, no doubt about it. But I highly doubt that the guys his first year jumped right on his wagon and wanted to win for him and bought into it all.

Look at any good coach, they dont win a championship their first year. It just doesnt happen. Give it a year or two before we start throwing rocks at Denton.

how has fran not embraced the university?

i understand the guy isn't winning and personally, i HATE the guy, but at least come up with something legit. the guy is all about a&m, its traditions, etc.

he's embraced a&m MUCH more vocally than bcg has. watch bcg when he sings the war hymn. half the time, he looks like he'd rather have his balls in a deep frier.

sorry, just annoys me to hear people say fran doesn't embrace the university and its culture.

thanks for the answers, though.

Let me clarify about Fran - sorry to hijack, but it is your thread ...

What I meant about Fran is that to the average A&M fan, he comes across as aloof, and white color. Part of this is some of his policies: not talking about injuries, closed practices, etc. No doubt this is all part of college athletics today and a very common practice for good reason. However, that doesn't change the way he is viewed.

BCG is in your face. He demands it from the players and from the fans. He is blue collar through and through. He FEELS like the kind of guy that can win at A&M. He is small town Texas. And and a huge percentage of Ag's are too.

I'm a Fran fan. But he rubs me wrong at times. Just doesn't have the same 'fit' in Aggieland. And that can't be debated. Win or Lose, sometimes coaches just don't gell with the fan base and university. Same with Denton. He just isn't gelling very easily. Blair, BCG, Coach G. - these fellas just resonate with the fans at a close level.

As for the state of the men's program, is their no one here willing to speak about our players? Some of you know these guys personally. No need to use names, but those of you close to Aggie Tennis know what I'm talking about. We have some players that are just down right not committed to the program through their on and off court actions. IMO- that is where Bobby is and always has been a step ahead and where Cass could have been more successful. Look past the forehand and big kicking serve and find out what kind of PERSON they are. I think Reggie and the football team is a great example. Awesome talent - terrible leader.

We followed the team to LA and Hawaii and I would have to disagree somewhat with the idea that these guys aren't close and don't like Coach Denton. You have to remember it's a team and Coach McKinley is BY FAR one of the most respected guys in Men's Tennis . . . . anywhere. I definitely got the impression that the kids really like both of the Coaches. Denton is very different from Cass so no doubt there might be a transition and acceptance period. The problem with the team is that we are VERY deep but relatively weak at 1 and 2. We could compete RIGHT now on a NC basis if we had stronger and more leadership oriented players at the top (particularly #1). Cass (and I believe Denton as well) is disturbed about the idea of signing 8 foreign players who have never heard of you, just to win championships. It's a tough issue. I will be surprised if Steve and Bob don't do a very good job with this program in the long haul. Just my 2 cents. Gig'em!

[This message has been edited by NumberEinAg (edited 3/3/2007 6:39p).]

NumberE, agree about Bob McKinley. I sure hope that Denton is able to pull the team together, as I do believe they have the talent to be very competitive in the Big 12.

we are ranked 35 in the latest polls. I don't think that is fair and I am expecting this to go up soon.

the rankings are basically not too accurate until late march when the computer has enough info and teams have played enough matches to even everything out....

Coryhub is right on. If we take care of business the next couple of weeks, our ranking will be MUCH better. Beating Hawaii and Michigan didn't hurt either.