Men's tennis lost to NEBRASKA at home! We are now in last place. How could we have fallen, so far, so fast?

We have some guys out there that don't understand a thing about FTA-Tennis. I'm tired of seeing guys quit. Get beat - OK, quit - never!

That's a really harsh criticism, being quitters. I have no way of knowing if that is accurate. But if it is, then the coach is the ultimate loser for letting the offenders continue to represent TAMU.

I can assure you that there are no quitters on this team. I would challenge anyone to look in the eyes of our guys after this match and tell them they quit. I think not.

well i was not there so I cant tell you if the guys are laying down, but i can garuantee thats is something that was never questioned under Cass....how can a team with everyone back be in last place?

losing to OU and Nebraska is unaccaptable..

It is the impact of the new coaches, especially Denton. Of this talent pool, 4 of players are transferring or exploring the field, 3 are graduating, 2 are talking about leaving tennis all together. What does that tell you? The team has no motivation or real team mind melding that Cass would formulate early in the season to step up to the challenges againt top teams. This team has lost to the top ones and to two teams we have not lost to in 20 years. It will take time to recover from this for sure.

i knew one was gonna transfer but i didn't know that the team was in this bad of shape....if this is true, that means he will have to bring in a whole new group of players 4-6 guys, and from the looks of the guys he brought in this semester (ocvirk, donato, williams) they didnt have much success and were not capable of playing for a top 20 team...

finishing last in the big 12 is a joke, and i know some of you are refering to Cass' first season, but we had 4 new players in the lineup and only 2 guys with any experience playing... and none of us were recruited by Cass but even though we weren't great we did compete like wild dogs and were on the right track and the guys were on board with Cass and could see he was the right guy to make us a top 10 team....

I agree shrapeddressman, it is a harsh criticism and not one I took lightly when I made it. I try not to wear maroon colored glasses, I call it like I see it. I've been to EVERY home match this year and there are people on the team that have not bought into FTA-tennis. I didn't say everyone. If you watched how we finished our matches on Court 5 and Court 6 you'd want to throw up. I did. I even saw our player call a ball that was inside the line by an inch "out" (it was an easy call and he was right on top of the line - I wanted to puke). Steve and Bob get a free pass this year, but things better get better in a hurry.

Not that I'm condoning cheating, but if you'd ever played any amount of tennis (or any other competitive sport, for that matter), you'd know that if someone cares enough to cheat, then he's not quitting. When a guy is tanking, he wants to get off the court as soon as possible and he's not going to prolong the match by hooking his opponent. There is also the fact that everyone misses calls, even easy ones (in any sport, even trained pros - did anyone see the Oregon-Oklahoma football game last season?). It's one thing if the guy is making bad calls all day long (or all season long), but one blown call - even an egregious one, does not make a cheater.

I was not there for the Nebraska match so I cannot speak on that, but I've been to just about half of our home matches over the last 7-8 years and I can tell you that most of the guys on this squad are anything but quitters. I don't know Coach Denton and I don't know how the players feel about him, but like some of you I'm not too inclined to care how the holdovers feel about him as much as I'm curious to see how he'll do with his own guys. Cass was a good coach and understood how to do a good job at Texas A&M...and that's hard to replace. That said, he is not the Tennis Jesus that some of you make him out to be. CoryHub I know he was your coach and surely you know him better than most on this board, but you've been around college tennis elsewhere and surely you can also admit that the sky is not going to fall now that he's gone. There are dozens of college coaches that could take the Aggies to the sweet 16 and maybe even one or two that could win a national championship here. I mean if you can do it Baylor, why not at A&M?

And guys, enough with the Team Germany and "Baylor is dirty" talk. That may be true, but we had Dakki and Jerry may be American but he's not much different than the ringers that Baylor had...which by the way, I'm all for players with lots of experience, as long as NCAA rules allow it.

By the way, what's up with Jerry? Is he one of the ones thinking about dropping tennis altogether?

How funny is it that a Nebraska Team that lost to Arkansas-Little Rock earlier this year beats an Aggie team at Home. You cant say that the Nebraska team is loaded and they were the better team. On paper A&M should have beaten the pants off Husker's but they didnt. Nebraska doesnt even have a true number one. They got a couple of guys that can play number 2 or 3 who can step in and get a big win here and there and the rest of the team is solid 4,5,6 guys for a top 75 team. The Ags should be and I hope they are embarrassed. The Ags have one of the top facilities in the country. An unbelievable fan base and yet there players cant dig in on senior night of all nights and find a way to fight. Nebraska is one of the most underacheiving teams in the country from a major conference. The Ags should look in the mirror and find themselves or they will lose all the things they have built up over the last decade.

[This message has been edited by tennisrealist (edited 4/21/2007 5:41p).]

Sharpdressedman-

Since it got locked, I wanted to ask you on this thread about the "Men's tennis meltdown"

What the hell does wasting a season have to do with the facility? Are you serious? Are we tearing down the Mitchell tennis center as well as wasting the season? That was the dumbest comment I have ever read on here...

I'm happy to correct your misunderstanding of my comment regarding the wasting of an extraordinary tennis complex. The facility is first-rate, but it will be wasted if the program goes into the tank.

Based upon the informed opinions of several regular posters whom I have come to respect, the program is nearly in a comatose state, and Denton is off to a very rocky and disappointing start.

Having a wonderful facility will mean little if the team continues to embarrass itself and the fan base withers away.

I hope that revises your assessment of "...the dumbest comment I have ever read on here..."

i agree SDM...the Aggie tennis fans are by far the best and most supportive in the country, but with a last place Big 12 finish its gonna be hard to continue to draw close to 1000 fans...the home court and fans are one of the main recruiting advantages...i would hate to see the Aggie program fall by the way side and struggle to draw more than 300 like 95% of teams...

i know its his first year and people keep saying "this isnt his team" but thats still not a reason for such a terrible season...you think Turgeon is gonna use that excuse next year, of course not bc he realizes its his job to work with the team he has to make them better, which obviously is something this coaching staff has not done...the other problem i see is that this staff did get to bring in their own guys and players in January, and those have proven not to contribute too much...if some of the recruits that were brought in Jan looked like impact players then we could feel safe about this being a down year and the recruiting for the future looked great, but with the guys they brought in so far its questionable

all of the guys who came in this year (tarnasky, donato, beatty, ocvirk, williams) are guys signed by cass.

i am not defending denton, just setting the record straight.

Williams and Ocvirk both came in Jan, so they are Denton's recruits....you cant sign players for Jan in the previous academic year, so Cass might have started recruiting them, but Denton is the one that signed guys brought in Jan...so Tarnasky and Donato were Cass guys, but the 2 Jan guys were signed by Denton

http://www.aggieathletics.com/pressRelease.php?PRID=10521

ocvirk signed an NLI with cass last year, and got here late because someone messed up his paperwork

williams may not have signed an NLI until the summer, but everyone knew he was coming before denton was hired.

[This message has been edited by texasaggie2007 (edited 4/21/2007 9:25p).]

Fact is, Coach D. had the talent to be a Top 20-25 team, and he didn't get it done. The bar for this program and the overall athletic program is very high. If he can't compete at the highest level, he will face the consequences. As it stands, Men's tennis this season has to be one of the biggest disappointments in Aggie athletics.

Sounds a lot like baseball last year. Sometimes you just have to clean house first.

oops double post

[This message has been edited by rikochet (edited 4/22/2007 8:56p).]

That is the best Nebraska team they have had since the Big 12 was formed. Not much doubles talent but competitive and talented in singles.

The current status of ATM is not unlike many teams that have to make the transition from one coach to another. Reguardless of experience it is just a grind for both players and coaches.



[This message has been edited by rikochet (edited 4/22/2007 8:58p).]

Harry Dunne, I am stunned. Somehow the Aggie Code of Honor keeps popping up in my head "Aggies don't lie, CHEAT or steal, nor tolerate those who do". For your information, I play tennis 2 to 3 times a week and also played other competitive sports. I would rather get beat 6-0, 6-0 than to EVER cheat. I was there, it was an intentional blown call and not the first questionable one, just the first one that I had a birdseye view of. How you can say that cheating is part of the "competitive spirit" is mind boggling. A true competitor wants to win because he outplayed his opponent, not outcheated him.

Numb....i do agree with you in theory, but when you are playing in a dual match and its coming down to the last few points and your teammates are there urging you on, and all the pressure is on you the last thing you are thinking about is the Aggie Code of Honor....the pressure and competiveness gets to these kids and the whatever takes mentality to win shows up...why do think pro athletes do steroids, or foul when the ref is not watching, or hold, spit, step on hands in the trenches the answer is to gain the advantage and do what it takes to win...its terrible and is a tough pill to swallow, but until you are down there with match/game on the line and all the practice, running, sweat, etc that you have put in is down to you to win or go home, its tough to imagine or feel the pressure of doing whatever it takes to win..a lot of teams have the reputation of cheating/hooking and its known around the country which ones will cheat you and which teams are fair (relatively speaking) but every college player konws there are going to be tough calls, it is part of the game just like holding is in football...the difference in the teams that are known for it is the coaches tolerate it and encourage the players to do it while the fair teams it is not tolerated by the coaches and try to keep it as fair as they can

I played college sports Cory (golf) and I would rather get my arse kicked than cheat. It's the loser's way out. It's never, never justified and never worth it. Doesn't mean people don't do it (ever read the book "Winning Ugly", actually encourages it - what leadership!).

That said, I would be MORE lenient in this case if it had been a tight match and perhaps "the moment" got to him and it was in all reality an honest mistake. This was a situation where our player was getting his arse handed to him and instead of stepping up and playing better (many sloppy errors) he decided to cheat. I've played sports all my life Cory and this was pure CS.

If you guys would have jumped ship with me last week after the debacle in the great state of Oklahoma no one would be so upset...

Hey I said, "with all due respect" -- look it up, it's in the Geneva Convention! I think that on these boards (and in real life arguments) people often miss the point b/c they latch on to the first thing that offends them (in this case, you THINKING that I was encouraging cheating). Go back and re-read.

But seriously, I prefaced the statement by saying that I do not condone cheating - I was just trying to make a point (which you obviously missed). You accused the team of both cheating, and of tanking. A guy who is tanking a match isn't likely to cheat...that would defeat the purpose of tanking the match! Not that cheating is much better, but being TOO competitive is an easier thing to cure than not being competitive enough...and that concept (as well as the pressure these kids are under) is something you couldn't possibly know about unless you've played college tennis. I'm not trying to belittle you, but your 4.0 league at the club doesn't compare to the culmination o f30+ hours a week on the court for 20 years and two thousand people in the stands and a team full of your best friends counting on you. I have a feeling you might have a hard time not crapping your shorts, much less making great calls under those circumstances. Sorry to resort to "big-timing" you - that is usually not my style but I can't see a better way to make this point.

I have no idea what is really up with the team nor do I have much to contribute about Denton's abilities as a coach.I do know that these guys were not quitters before he got here and that if they ARE quitting now, he should probably bear some of the blame.

That said, let's give him a couple of years to bring in some guys, get them to buy into his system, and prove himself before we start acting like a bunch of Alabama fans.

- HD

To be very clear, what I mean is that if your guy is cheating, then he obviously cares about winning, and the cheating is something you can address and usually remedy pretty easily. If he is tanking, that is usually a symptom of a much greater problem.

good point Numb...like i said when the pressure is on sometimes you make bad decisions, calls, but if you are getting beat soundly then hooking someone is very bad and will start a reputation...i agree to take a beating like a man

Harry, I think you missed my point. I talked about 1 player who was getting his butt handed to him and decided that cheating might be a way out, that's unacceptable, take your beating like a man. This person has not played all that much so I'm willing to consider it a "rookie" mistake and move on. I never accused the Team of cheating because I don't think we do that as a team.

I also said that I saw 2 players who appeared to "tank" their match instead of fighting until the last point. In four years I never once saw El Dorry quit. Not once, ever. I played college golf, and while it might not be as intense as college tennis, the thought of cheating (to better my score) or quitting never entered my mind.

I read your post several times before I responded and I disagree with you, that's why I responded. I still disagree with you.

Pressure does not develope character it reveals it!!! ( I didn't say it first but I wish I did!!)

I see where you're coming from, and as they say in courtroom, reasonable minds could differ on the matter. I apologize if I wasn't clear or if I didn't read your post as it was intended. I will say that unfortunately, tennis is not as much of a "gentleman's game" as it used to be, while golf still is.

Rik it is probably only because you are quoting someone (who said it, John Wooden?) that I agree with you! I might be wrong but I think that the original quote said "sports" and not "pressure", but the meaning remains. A big part of a coach's job is to develop character, especially in a sport like tennis where there are a dozen or less guys on a team and the coach gets a chance to be around them ad nauseam. A lot of people around here are not huge Cass fans, but even so I think you've got to concede that his teams fought hard. I am indifferent about him as a person, thought he was a good coach, but I REALLY respect the heart of his teams (esp. the great ones feat. Madden, Caradima, El Dorry - who you're dead-on about...guy had the heart of a lion) Like I said before, I think we need to wait for Denton to get his own guys before we can see what sort of character HIS teams will have.

Were the Cass teams cheaters? I don't think so. I don't remember a significant number of bad calls, but then again I'm a homer Mostly I think that they were good, so they didn't need to cheat and when you're winning, everyone is happy. We're looking for things to pick on here, because we're having a sheisty season.

I want to say one more thing (and I realize that I am getting way off topic, but I'm done after this post)...
I don't remember anyone writing articles about steroids when Big Mac and Sosa were chasing the home run record even though they looked more ridiculous (physically) than life-sized He-Man dolls. Again, I'm not condoning cheating of any sort, but it happens in most sports at most levels. I'm going to be vilified for this, but a big percentage of the guys on the Aggie football team have used steroids, while most of the NFL has too. Baseball we know about. Even pro tennis! Are they bad guys? Probably not - just guys trying to be the best at what they love and do for a living and trying to get any edge they can. Is it right? no. Do I respect their character? not as much as guys that do it the right way. But show me a guy who doesn't juice in football and I'll show you a guy that isn't going to be able to keep up (in most cases).

I know that steroids and bad line calls are two totally different things, but I guess my point is this:
On the one hand, we're pissing and moaning because our teams sucks, and on the other hand we're calling for them to have great character. Let's say that the Houston Texans were the only steroid-free team in the league last year (obviously a very fantastic hypo). I'm pretty sure there would be a lot of booing in the stands. If the Aggie tennis men were undefeated in conference, there would be no crying about tanking or cheating (even if it were going on). I'm sure that the Baylor fans didn't whine their 25 year-old professional German tennis team as they were hoisting the national championship trophy. We wouldn't have either -- we would have CERTAINLY found a way to justify the situation if Cass had brought them in instead of Matt Troll...errr Knoll.

I have gotten rambly and scatterbrained here, but I'll finish by saying that I think Melvin Watkins got canned for losing with class. I guess what I'm saying is that the bad line calls (as long as it is just a little sporadic overcompetitiveness and not what we are known for), are not that big of a deal. The tanking is.

nm

[This message has been edited by rikochet (edited 4/24/2007 6:10p).]

nm

[This message has been edited by rikochet (edited 4/24/2007 6:11p).]

[This message has been edited by SwampAg88 (edited 5/4/2007 6:27p).]