Are y'all outsourcing everything to India now or are civil engineers just getting dumber? I swear, every set of Civil drawings I see now are worse than the last set. The legends never match up with drawings, they don't say whether the paving will be asphalt or concrete, the scale is off, everything looks half ass. What the hell is going on?
Question for Civil Engineers
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Last: 1 mo ago by MonkeyKnifeFighter
Probably all made by AI at this point
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Sir, this is a Wendy's.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
This question could apply to all engineers, architects and design teams. I'm currently on hold on a project because my Civil team can't get me the information the city is asking for.
This isn't very civil...
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AgsWin2011 said:
This question could apply to all engineers, architects and design teams. I'm currently on hold on a project because my Civil team can't get me the information the city is asking for.
Don't get me started on architects. I used to use a guy who had 6 kids. 3 were boys he had from a previous marriage and then 3 girls from his new wife. There was always something with that guy. His kids would mix up his plans with a school project and other issues too. I always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I had my breaking point when I found out he was a closet homo.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
Serious answer?
A lot of the really good draftsmen/designers are geting old and retiring. These are guys that learned the trade before most of it was done on computer. They had a meticulous eye for detail and were careful because everything was hand drawn. Mistakes weren't easy to correct, so it was best to avoid them. Most of it now is done on computers, from the design to the print. The older guys carried those drafting skilsl into the computer age. Best of both worlds. With the retiring of older draftsmen a lot of firms have chosen to just have new civil grads fresh out of school act as draftsmen for the first couple of years. They never learned the actual skill of putting good plans together. And they likely never will as their career progresses and they stop using CAD.
A lot of the really good draftsmen/designers are geting old and retiring. These are guys that learned the trade before most of it was done on computer. They had a meticulous eye for detail and were careful because everything was hand drawn. Mistakes weren't easy to correct, so it was best to avoid them. Most of it now is done on computers, from the design to the print. The older guys carried those drafting skilsl into the computer age. Best of both worlds. With the retiring of older draftsmen a lot of firms have chosen to just have new civil grads fresh out of school act as draftsmen for the first couple of years. They never learned the actual skill of putting good plans together. And they likely never will as their career progresses and they stop using CAD.
wangus12 said:
Probably all made by AI at this point
AI= actually Indians
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:AgsWin2011 said:
This question could apply to all engineers, architects and design teams. I'm currently on hold on a project because my Civil team can't get me the information the city is asking for.
Don't get me started on architects. I used to use a guy who had 6 kids. 3 were boys he had from a previous marriage and then 3 girls from his new wife. There was always something with that guy. His kids would mix up his plans with a school project and other issues too. I always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I had my breaking point when I found out he was a closet homo.
What
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maroon barchetta said:Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:AgsWin2011 said:
This question could apply to all engineers, architects and design teams. I'm currently on hold on a project because my Civil team can't get me the information the city is asking for.
Don't get me started on architects. I used to use a guy who had 6 kids. 3 were boys he had from a previous marriage and then 3 girls from his new wife. There was always something with that guy. His kids would mix up his plans with a school project and other issues too. I always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I had my breaking point when I found out he was a closet homo.
What
Yeah and their maid was a dime. But she had the hots for the damn butcher.
Ah unrequited love.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:maroon barchetta said:Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:AgsWin2011 said:
This question could apply to all engineers, architects and design teams. I'm currently on hold on a project because my Civil team can't get me the information the city is asking for.
Don't get me started on architects. I used to use a guy who had 6 kids. 3 were boys he had from a previous marriage and then 3 girls from his new wife. There was always something with that guy. His kids would mix up his plans with a school project and other issues too. I always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I had my breaking point when I found out he was a closet homo.
What
Yeah and their maid was a dime. But she had the hots for the damn butcher.
Ah unrequited love.
sure, Jan.
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:maroon barchetta said:Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:AgsWin2011 said:
This question could apply to all engineers, architects and design teams. I'm currently on hold on a project because my Civil team can't get me the information the city is asking for.
Don't get me started on architects. I used to use a guy who had 6 kids. 3 were boys he had from a previous marriage and then 3 girls from his new wife. There was always something with that guy. His kids would mix up his plans with a school project and other issues too. I always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I had my breaking point when I found out he was a closet homo.
What
Yeah and their maid was a dime. But she had the hots for the damn butcher.
Ah unrequited love.
Sam had a prime selection of meat
Honest answer as a Licensed Civil Engineer.
Maybe pick a decent Civil Engineering firm? Of course, little things will slip through, but if your CE firm is making huge basic mistakes, maybe that ain't the one to stick with. We're small, and of course we're not perfect, but major things should be immediately caught in QA/QC review.
AI is the new up an coming thing. Our company is in the process of getting certifications in AI. But it will never take the place of real engineering. Just sayin'.
Maybe pick a decent Civil Engineering firm? Of course, little things will slip through, but if your CE firm is making huge basic mistakes, maybe that ain't the one to stick with. We're small, and of course we're not perfect, but major things should be immediately caught in QA/QC review.
AI is the new up an coming thing. Our company is in the process of getting certifications in AI. But it will never take the place of real engineering. Just sayin'.
I supply construction materials, so unfortunately I don't get to pick engineers. We get sent a set of plans and have to figure out how much material is needed based on the plans we get, which are often terrible.
Sorry to hear that. Yes, there are a lot of crappy engineers out there. And some of them are even with the huge firms. I would love to minimize that experience. But I don't think outsourcing to India, et al, or AI is the problem.The plans still need to be stamped by a TX Licensed Engineer. Some people just suck. It is what it is.
And if you think regular Civil Site Plans are bad, don't even get me started on Traffic Control Plans. Most ignore that until the last day, but bad TCPs can kill more people than bad drainage plans.
And if you think regular Civil Site Plans are bad, don't even get me started on Traffic Control Plans. Most ignore that until the last day, but bad TCPs can kill more people than bad drainage plans.
Classmate of mine was ME grad. Was hired by a firm after he retired doing the exact same job he was doing for his other company. Except, he was checking the work of the younger engineers who did not have the hands on skills you described above. Said there were about 50 guys working there. Ranging from 60 to 75. This was aerospace, NASA and similar contracts.
I remember getting a few pages of Civil that were soaked with information. Now I get like 15 sheets of all that info spread out and a lot of photocopied typical details. A lot of CYA documentation rather than information I need. It's a new era.
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maroon barchetta said:Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:maroon barchetta said:Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:AgsWin2011 said:
This question could apply to all engineers, architects and design teams. I'm currently on hold on a project because my Civil team can't get me the information the city is asking for.
Don't get me started on architects. I used to use a guy who had 6 kids. 3 were boys he had from a previous marriage and then 3 girls from his new wife. There was always something with that guy. His kids would mix up his plans with a school project and other issues too. I always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I had my breaking point when I found out he was a closet homo.
What
Yeah and their maid was a dime. But she had the hots for the damn butcher.
Ah unrequited love.
Sam had a prime selection of meat
Hey oh!!!!
In Hoc Signo Vinces
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:AgsWin2011 said:
This question could apply to all engineers, architects and design teams. I'm currently on hold on a project because my Civil team can't get me the information the city is asking for.
Don't get me started on architects. I used to use a guy who had 6 kids. 3 were boys he had from a previous marriage and then 3 girls from his new wife. There was always something with that guy. His kids would mix up his plans with a school project and other issues too. I always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I had my breaking point when I found out he was a closet homo.
Sounds like you're hiring a dumbass that would be a dumbass in any profession.
I see the same thing with younger intern architects. They don't understand line weights which is annoying to me. Laying out a sheet like a damn spaz. I constantly have to tell them to put a north arrow on the plans. Nevermind actually trusting them to detail something that can actually be built.
I think all architects should be required to work as a laborer or a trade for a summer. You learn a lot just by spending time seeing what happens in the field.
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AggieArchitect04 said:
I think all architects should be required to work as a laborer or a trade for a summer. You learn a lot just by spending time seeing what happens in the field.
I'm assuming you are class of '04 and not born in either 1900s or 2000s. I'm also assuming you are not my uncle who just passed at 79.
He worked construction his entire life. Specifically in building hospitals. He said the same thing. He didn't hate anything but definitely disliked some architects. lol
In Hoc Signo Vinces
That took me a minute but now I'm dying.
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AtticusMatlock said:
That took me a minute but now I'm dying.
Oh don't get me started on the account executive I had put up with at the old advertising firm I worked with. I should have listened to his neighbor Mrs. Kravitz.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
I had a neighbor who built hospitals. Hope it wasn't him although I think 79 is too young for him.
Did he live in college station?
Did he live in college station?
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
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Minnesota.
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AggieArchitect04 said:Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:AgsWin2011 said:
This question could apply to all engineers, architects and design teams. I'm currently on hold on a project because my Civil team can't get me the information the city is asking for.
Don't get me started on architects. I used to use a guy who had 6 kids. 3 were boys he had from a previous marriage and then 3 girls from his new wife. There was always something with that guy. His kids would mix up his plans with a school project and other issues too. I always wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I had my breaking point when I found out he was a closet homo.
Sounds like you're hiring a dumbass that would be a dumbass in any profession.
I see the same thing with younger intern architects. They don't understand line weights which is annoying to me. Laying out a sheet like a damn spaz. I constantly have to tell them to put a north arrow on the plans. Nevermind actually trusting them to detail something that can actually be built.
I think all architects should be required to work as a laborer or a trade for a summer. You learn a lot just by spending time seeing what happens in the field.
The architect and his family were really famous though!
My architect Art Vandelay is outstanding
I'm retired and still have drafting equipment from many years at the drafting table. The comment about line weight is certainly true. Drawings are about communication. My mentor in the early '70s was a stickler for detail and line weight with the different leads to clearly communicate on that blueprint. Something that is lost on many CADD drawings I see.
I can remember my first job and the Architect I consider my mentor . He would walk up to the opposite side of the drafting table and quickly pick out something wrong or still to complete on a large drawing. Definitely learned attention to detail.
I can remember my first job and the Architect I consider my mentor . He would walk up to the opposite side of the drafting table and quickly pick out something wrong or still to complete on a large drawing. Definitely learned attention to detail.
Apollo79 said:
My architect Art Vandelay is outstanding
He designs railroads!
1. After Oil and Gas runs out of petroleum, chemical, and mechanical engineers to hire, they go after the civils.
2. After O&G is done, there aren't many Aggie civils left, and the cream of the crop is gone.
3. A lot of civil companies have resorted to hiring agricultural engineers from A&M or Civil engineers from UH, Lamar, etc.
4. Generational differences. Todays grads grew up with minimum grades through high school. They get a 60 even if they didn't turn in their homework. Attention to detail was only stressed occasionally.
5. The big companies hire H1Bs that can do what you tell them, but often struggle to think for themselves.
2. After O&G is done, there aren't many Aggie civils left, and the cream of the crop is gone.
3. A lot of civil companies have resorted to hiring agricultural engineers from A&M or Civil engineers from UH, Lamar, etc.
4. Generational differences. Todays grads grew up with minimum grades through high school. They get a 60 even if they didn't turn in their homework. Attention to detail was only stressed occasionally.
5. The big companies hire H1Bs that can do what you tell them, but often struggle to think for themselves.
You prefer CADDY drawings?
What's so civil about engineers anyway?
When my dad was in the Air Force, the base maintenance guys were called "Civil Engineers".
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
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Lucky I did a rapid pivot after college because my liberal arts degree only prepared me for a job in custodial engineering.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
I am glad you were able to clean that mess up so quickly.
Teslag said:
Serious answer?
A lot of the really good draftsmen/designers are geting old and retiring. These are guys that learned the trade before most of it was done on computer. They had a meticulous eye for detail and were careful because everything was hand drawn. Mistakes weren't easy to correct, so it was best to avoid them. Most of it now is done on computers, from the design to the print. The older guys carried those drafting skilsl into the computer age. Best of both worlds. With the retiring of older draftsmen a lot of firms have chosen to just have new civil grads fresh out of school act as draftsmen for the first couple of years. They never learned the actual skill of putting good plans together. And they likely never will as their career progresses and they stop using CAD.
LOL...those guys retired over a decade ago. Nothing has been hand drawn since about 1985. The guys that 'learned the trade before most of it was done on a computer" learned it in the 70's, which means they are in their 70's now.
The second part about using new grads to draft is true however. We keep doing that in my small section of our company and we can't seem to talk our director to stop and let us hire a real CAD person. Everything the new engineers learn is completely lost after a few years b/c they move to doing real engineering or project management and we have to teach the new hires all over again.
The other really big issue is the over reliance on the computer and automatic calculators to do things. Well guess what, garbage in = garbage out. Some will just blindly accept whatever answer the software is giving them because the computer is always right. Fortunately we've hired some really good new grads who are smart enough to ask questions.