My wife loves Counting Crows. I can't stand them. PART of the reason is I think Adam's voice is "whiny". the other part, and probably the main part, is that he completely sings around the beat, and I just don't like that.

My wife comes back at me and says "you like Rush, how is that not a whiny voice?!" And I said "at least he sings in time with the song."

She challenged me to explain the difference in singing with the beat and around it, and I used Adam (counting crows) and Willie Nelson as examples of the latter. But she doesn't acknowledge that she hears a difference.

Can anyone point to

a) a good instructional video about singing in time, or
b) suggest good examples of Willie and/or Adam singing really out of time AND/OR someone who sings spot on to the time of their song?

I know you're not my internet research staff, but before I start Googling and YouTubing, I hope someone here can suggest some good paths to go down.

Thanks in advance!

Do you also not like Willie Nelson? That seems a bigger deal than your wife not understanding what singing behind the notes means.

Actually I love Willie, but I think ALMOST every duet he does is a disaster. No one can match his own personal timing, and it's so awkward.

There's nothing wrong with being non-mechanical. I just don't like Adam's way of doing it ONE IOTA. I'm trying to explain to her what it is that bothers me about it. She just listens to the lyrics, which are really good, according to her. I wouldn't know because I changed the channel whenever they came on the radio. (Now that there are streaming channels and playlists, I never hear him/them)

He's definitely impossible to sing along with live with the way he performs.
You did just make me google "singing behind the beat" - as it's a convo I've had with the missus before as well.

I'd be curious to know if you like jazz music

Willie studied and learned the phrasing of Ol' Blue Eyes himself Frank Sinatra, whom he emulated as a kid and ultimately partied with in Vegas and NYC and everywhere in between. Two of my absolute favorites.

I remember reading a few different articles (Rolling Stone, Texas Monthly, and I think even AARP at my in-laws!) on this 4-5 years ago when Willie released My Way, his tribute to Frank.

-

let me just say: I don't have a problem with someone singing around the beat. Sinatra and Willie are foundational pillars of what i consider "great music".

In fact, here's a great video I recently watched on how being RIGIDLY in time would take away from the greatness of a song and i completely agree with the point of the video!

IMHO, Adam sings (at least sometimes) with nearly complete disregard for the fact that a beat even exists. It's just too much for me. (And his voice is whiny.)

My wife just doesn't seem (or admit) to know what I'm even talking about. I just want to find some good examples or tutorials that make it clear.

PatAg said:

---

I'd be curious to know if you like jazz music

---

not particularly. Do you equate Counting Crows with great jazz music?

Which type does Tom Petty fit in with?

Refugee seems to be very offbeat. Won't Back Down is pretty in beat. I'd say most of his are off beat.

TX AG 88 said:

---

PatAg said:

---

I'd be curious to know if you like jazz music

---

not particularly. Do you equate Counting Crows with great jazz music?

---

Didnt say anything about great jazz music, but the way he sings is kind of how people solo.
I think you are more talking about how a lot of people hit every downbeat and upbeat, in your standard 4/4, which feels a little more rigid but it is also easier to listen too.

His style is more like he connects with the downbeat periodically to reset, and then sort of improvises for a few measures afterwards.
He meanders a lot, and I agree that the way he does it combined with his voice is not that enjoyable.

Muse is an example of a better way to perform live. Most of the time they are locked in, and then they have areas they know ahead of time they want to improvise in.

It happens in hip hop a lot as well, where some people are really good at riding the beat, and other people sounds like they have no idea that it is even possible...and somehow some people still like the latter.

Bob Dylan?