Got selected for Adele pre-sale tickets for a date in January. Was number 274 in the queue.

Cheapest seats are $137.61 plus fees. Then it jumps to $321.10.

I had four of the cheapest seats selected, but there was a single seat between my seats and the next unavailable seat. So, Ticketmaster won't let me check out because I'm leaving a single "orphan seat". But there is a 4 ticket limit!

This cheap section only has 110 seats. There are two side-by-side handicap companion seats in this section that are unavailable because to purchase them you have to have also purchased a handicap accessible seat.

The next available seats that are $310 have over $100 in fees. And that price point exceeds the budget we set.

So, I get nothing.

Also, you can't tell me that computer programs aren't buying up these tickets because available seats appear and disappear before I can even click on them.

I know. Just an ugly reminder today. The sad thing is, most of these will end up resale offered at 10x the price.

You assume computer programs are buying because one of the most anticipated concerts had tickets disappear before you could grab then?

All the while you had 3 seats available to buy but held out for 4?

We have held onto our Adele tickets on 12/3 even though the date likely won't work for us and I didn't trust that I woudl be guaranteed seats in the refund resale. So my plan is to sell my tickets and rebuy secondary market tickets for another date once we get a little closer and know for sure.

All the resales I've seen at this point are 10x the original price. Starting at $1000 a seat. If you find something cheaper, I'd be curious where and how last-minute.

Unfortunately, since I live in Houston, I can't buy last-minute because of the travel logistics.

I knew getting these tickets would be a challenge because the venue is so small. And I've seen her in Houston, so I'm not devastated or anything.

The orphan seat restriction and unsold handicap companion seats just really ticks me off. Ticketmaster fees have also gotten out of hand, but I already knew that from purchases to local shows.

TXTransplant said:

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You didn't understand the post. When seats become available and then disappear faster than a human can put a mouse on the green dot and select it, that's not humans buying the seats. Unavailable seats show back up as available when purchases don't go through. You can't select a seat that's unavailable. So, a seat that changes from unavailable to available shouldn't disappear in a split second if humans are purchasing the tickets.

I wasn't "holding out" for four. I had four seats selected. When I went to add them to my cart, I got the error message saying my purchase wasn't allowed (because of the one orphan seat). I couldn't buy the fifth seat because there was a four ticket limit. By the time I clicked out of the error message, nothing in my price range was left.

Why would I intentionally select only three seats when I know I need four?

Also, in the 30 min or so I stayed on the site trying to see if anything else opened up, there were quite a few available single seats. So, something doesn't add up.

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I understood the post -- I just always see these posts where 1 person is on 5 computers trying to buy <INSERT HOT SHOW HERE AT SMALL VENUE> and then if they are unable to get the tickets they want, it has to be the bots... No, its 1 person on 5 computer * 10,000 people all at once.

And you are incorrect at how the system works -- just because you see a blue dot doesn't mean that ticket is available, it may have been carted by someone else already.

And you say if by the time you click on the blue dot if its gone then it couldn't have been a human that did it... Yet you were a human... Had you been able to cart them, what would be the explanation?

And a tip - the interactive seating chart isn't live, the listings on the right are. You have much better chances buying that way.

Don't get me wrong, there are issues with bots out there - but a small venue with everyone in the world interested in it, and verified accounts... you are likely dealing with just a lot of scalpers, not computer programs.

I didn't say by the time I click on the blue dot it's gone. And I'm not talking about blue seats (and even selected seats) that disappear/become unavailable before I can add them to my cart. That happens, too, and I know that.

I'm specifically talking about seats that are unavailable that all of a sudden become available again. Meaning they change from gray to blue in front of my eyes. But then change back to gray before any human could possibly click on it and select it. Literally over the course of a split second the seat goes from unavailable to available and then back to unavailable.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how any human could be doing that. Unless like you said the chart seating chart isn't accurate and has a delay.

But it's hard to buy tickets off that chart to the right, especially, if you've never been to a venue before. It also takes longer for your brain to process the written description of the tickets than it does to click colored dots. So, I think the vast majority of actual humans are probably relying on the seating chart.

Proposition Joe said:

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Don't get me wrong, there are issues with bots out there - but a small venue with everyone in the world interested in it, and verified accounts... you are likely dealing with just a lot of scalpers, not computer programs.

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Oh, based on the number of resale tickets that are already out there (for 10x the original price), I have no doubt it's mostly scalpers.

What sad is, when Adele played her two shows in Houston, she specifically said she didn't want people reselling/scalping, and supposedly there were protections in place to prevent this. I seem to recall there being a lot of empty seats at the show I went to, so whatever was done must have worked to some degree. But it doesn't seem that was implemented for this residency.

Seat Geek already has at least 112 tickets (that might be listings, I'm not sure) for the show I tried to buy today up for resale. When the venue only seats 4100, that's a lot.

From what I have seen:

Interactive map has a delay. If you are in super early, or are buying something without a ton of demand (ie not 10,000 people all trying to buy at once), then you can have success there. On in demand stuff, I tend to actually go 3-4 rows back over what is best available to try and avoid what everyone else is clicking (cause as you said, once you miss once, you're up **** creek).

Right side - it is the most updated. You'll see tickets on the right side before you see them on the map. However due to design and "sort by best available", it also kind of feeds everyone into the same 10 or so listings that populate at the top without scrolling.

So a double-edged sword.

But I also think it's key to understand that some one who is mad that them and their 5 friends all on their iphones didn't get good seats? There's 10,000 people with 5 friends all on their iphones. When you start calculating up the capacity, then it's highly likely you go after anything halfway desirable on a hot show that you're going to get shut out.

Take Adele... 4200 capacity theater. So that means if you start the queue and there's 1,000 people in front of you, if everyone has success there's going to be just scraps left.

Yeah, I get all that. I was 274 in line, so I thought I had a better chance. The real issue was, we had a budget and there were less than 100 seats in the whole theater that were offered for a price that met our budget. I knew the seats would be expensive, but I didn't know just how few seats would even be an option for us.

But that on top of the handicap companion seats that will stay empty, on top of the "No orphan seat" clause, on top of the ridiculous fees that TM tacks on, on top of all the resales/scalpers just really ticks me off. Nothing about their business model enables actual fans to purchase tickets. It's just sheer luck.

TXTransplant said:

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Yeah, I get all that. I was 274 in line, so I thought I had a better chance. The real issue was, we had a budget and there were less than 100 seats in the whole theater that were offered for a price that met our budget. I knew the seats would be expensive, but I didn't know just how few seats would even be an option for us.

But that on top of the handicap companion seats that will stay empty, on top of the "No orphan seat clause", on top of the ridiculous fees that TM tacks on, on top of all the resales/scalpers just really ticks me off. Nothing about their business model enables actual fans to purchase tickets. It's just sheer luck.

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Yeah, and she also did platinum seating right off the bat -- so that probably takes half the capacity away due to affordability for most.

Proposition Joe said:

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From what I have seen:

Interactive map has a delay. If you are in super early, or are buying something without a ton of demand (ie not 10,000 people all trying to buy at once), then you can have success there. On in demand stuff, I tend to actually go 3-4 rows back over what is best available to try and avoid what everyone else is clicking (cause as you said, once you miss once, you're up **** creek).

Right side - it is the most updated. You'll see tickets on the right side before you see them on the map. However due to design and "sort by best available", it also kind of feeds everyone into the same 10 or so listings that populate at the top without scrolling.

So a double-edged sword.

But I also think it's key to understand that some one who is mad that them and their 5 friends all on their iphones didn't get good seats? There's 10,000 people with 5 friends all on their iphones. When you start calculating up the capacity, then it's highly likely you go after anything halfway desirable on a hot show that you're going to get shut out.

Take Adele... 4200 capacity theater. So that means if you start the queue and there's 1,000 people in front of you, if everyone has success there's going to be just scraps left.

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What I bolded isn't exactly applicable for this particular presale. I had to "apply" for presale using an invite that Ticketmaster sent to me because I was not selected to purchase tickets when they first went on sale last year.

I had to log into my account to pre-register. The other day, I got an email saying I was selected for presale. Then yesterday I got an email with the link to purchase.

But I also got a separate text to my phone with the presale code. You couldn't get in without this code, and supposedly the code doesn't work unless you are logged into your account.

Now, I have no idea how many presale invites and codes TM sent out. But trying to coordinate a purchase among friends across several different accounts should not have worked in this case because no one was guaranteed a presale invite and the codes weren't supposed to be shareable.

I'd think all of this would prevent the bots, but the number of resale tickets that are already out there makes me think otherwise.

Is it 1995 Again?

MookieBlaylock said:

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Is it 1995 Again?

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i predict, in the near future...your namesake will wage a war against Ticketmaster!

Proposition Joe said:

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TXTransplant said:

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Yeah, I get all that. I was 274 in line, so I thought I had a better chance. The real issue was, we had a budget and there were less than 100 seats in the whole theater that were offered for a price that met our budget. I knew the seats would be expensive, but I didn't know just how few seats would even be an option for us.

But that on top of the handicap companion seats that will stay empty, on top of the "No orphan seat clause", on top of the ridiculous fees that TM tacks on, on top of all the resales/scalpers just really ticks me off. Nothing about their business model enables actual fans to purchase tickets. It's just sheer luck.

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Yeah, and she also did platinum seating right off the bat -- so that probably takes half the capacity away due to affordability for most.

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Yes, and anyone who had their show cancelled got first dibs. But again, looking at the number of resales, it appears even those original ticket sales may have gone to mostly resellers.

I'll be honest, I'm not a big concert person. Prior to this year, I'd only been to less than 10 in my entire life (this year alone, I'll go to four). I got Stevie Nicks tickets at The Woodlands Pavilion a few weeks ago. That was a challenge and I had similar issues with tickets "disappearing", but I did get tickets. Granted Stevie Nicks is no Adele, but I know the radio stations around here gobbled up tons of seats, and The Pavilion has season ticket holders. So, there wasn't 100% availability when tickets went on sale.

And the main reason reason I haven't been to a lot of shows is because I hate TM and all their stupid fees. But it seems to have gotten much worse since Covid.

digging tunnels said:

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I've now gotten to the point where I buy tickets the days leading up to and even the day of the concert. Lots of people for whatever reason have to back out and try and resell them last minute for a cheaper price

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I've done this forever for a lot of the big name acts. TM almost always releases held seats day of show. One time I got 3rd row to Radiohead at the Woodlands that were additional folding chairs they added.

However, for the Rolling Stones at the Cotton Bowl last year I bough PIT the day they went on sale for like $700 each. Then I check the day of and they were only $400. I called customer service and the lady told me that the prices fluctuate based on demand. This was the first I'd ever heard of this and I've been buying tickets from that godforsaken company for over 25 years.

I said to the lady "So basically I'm getting penalized $300 per ticket for being an early bird?". She said "Pretty much". Then I hung up the phone.

johnnyblaze36 said:

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digging tunnels said:

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I've now gotten to the point where I buy tickets the days leading up to and even the day of the concert. Lots of people for whatever reason have to back out and try and resell them last minute for a cheaper price

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I've done this forever for a lot of the big name acts. TM almost always releases held seats day of show. One time I got 3rd row to Radiohead at the Woodlands that were additional folding chairs they added.

However, for the Rolling Stones at the Cotton Bowl last year I bough PIT the day they went on sale for like $700 each. Then I check the day of and they were only $400. I called customer service and the lady told me that the prices fluctuate based on demand. This was the first I'd ever heard of this and I've been buying tickets from that godforsaken company for over 25 years.

I said to the lady "So basically I'm getting penalized $300 per ticket for being an early bird?". She said "Pretty much". Then I hung up the phone.

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yep....Live Nation/TM does this a lot in Houston when shows aren't selling well. T

Tickets will go from $75-100 after fees to $25 w/ no added fees. Great for people that waited, not so much for idiots like me who buy at the on-sale.

Thanks for the tip re The Woodlands. We wanted to go to Kid Rock, but it was sold out and the resale tickets were stupid expensive (considering it was Kid Rock). I didn't think to look day-of. Just figured sold out meant sold out.

We did think about walking to the venue to see if anyone was standing outside trying to sell. But it was hot so we went to a bar instead.

For the record Ticket Master provides the "platinum" system, but the artist is the one that does it. Basically its a way for the artist to profit off of scalping rather than the scalpers.

You can be mad at TM, but ultimately it's the The Rolling Stones, Adele, and Bruce Springsteen who are doing it.

Who can I blame the stupid "No orphan seats" rule on?

I'd have four tickets and wouldn't be b/tching here if it wasn't for that. If it's so important to not have single unsold seats in a row, then people should only be allowed to buy even numbers of tickets.

TXTransplant said:

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Who can I blame the stupid "No orphan seats" rule on?

I'd have four tickets and wouldn't be b/tching here if it wasn't for that. If it's so important to not have single unsold seats in a row, then people should only be allowed to buy even numbers of tickets.

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common sense?

Complaining about the "No orphan seats" is illogical. For a high demand show, the only reason your are seeing those seats is because the "No orphan seats" rule. If the rule didn't exists those seats would be gone and everyone would have significantly less opportunities to buy seats.

Complaining that my ticket purchase was not allowed based on what other people did or didn't purchase is illogical? The policy is illogical. There is no way that show wasn't going to sell out. A single seat in a row was not going to be an issue.

And I actually would have purchased the 5th seat, but there was a 4 ticket limit.

How is that fair? I can't control how many tickets other people purchase. I was prevented from purchasing four, but two other people could come in and buy a set of three and a set of two. Or if one person had purchased that single seat before I purchased my four, this wouldn't have even been an issue. And there were plenty of other single seats available for purchase, so clearly some people skirted this "rule".

And I'm not buying your argument that allowing orphan seats limits availability for everyone else, because in a show with this kind of demand that is going to sell out, it's all based on timing anyway. You don't really get to choose your seats. You just get what happens to still be available when you click "add to my cart".

Diggity said:

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TXTransplant said:

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Who can I blame the stupid "No orphan seats" rule on?

I'd have four tickets and wouldn't be b/tching here if it wasn't for that. If it's so important to not have single unsold seats in a row, then people should only be allowed to buy even numbers of tickets.

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common sense?

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Are you saying I should have known/expected this? Is this rule pretty common with ticket sales? Because if it is, I haven't encountered it before. Maybe that's just my lack of experience with high demand/popular shows.

Think of it this way.

You have a 100 seats with 50 couples that want to sit together.

With the rule all 50 couples go and sit together
Without the rule, worse case ~2/3rds of them go and sit together

I get what you're saying, but if the goal is to accommodate couples, then only sell tickets in groups of 2s and 4s. Because it's the singles and the groups of 3 who are causing this problem.

When the difference between getting tickets and not getting tickets is literally who is the faster clicker (and luck of the draw), I don't think it's fair to deny anyone a purchase of available seats (assuming they aren't trying to exceed the allowed limit).

Or, just sell tickets in a section and assign people to seats based on the price paid/section selected.

Very common these days. As mentioned, they don't want to leave singles because they're hard to sell. They're not going to limit it to 2s and 4s because not all rows have an even number of seats.

Quote:

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Because it's the singles and the groups of 3 who are causing this problem.

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No, its not. It leaving singles thats the problem. It doesn't matter if its 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 or 23 people buying, if you allow leaving singles, you limit how many people can get in the venue.

Another Doug said:

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Quote:

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Because it's the singles and the groups of 3 who are causing this problem.

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No, its not. It leaving singles thats the problem. It doesn't matter if its 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 or 23 people buying, if you allow leaving singles, you limit how many people can get in the venue.

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So sell seats in 2s/pairs that are linked. Meaning. If you buy seat 2 in a row, you have to buy seat 1, and not seat 3 (because that would leave seat 1 as a single). It's not hard to do if they can prevent me from buying four tickets because there is a fifth empty seat on the other side.

Buying an odd number of seats will cause more problems than not, too (especially if you buy only 1 ticket), and this eliminates that as well.

Diggity said:

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Very common these days. As mentioned, they don't want to leave singles because they're hard to sell. They're not going to limit it to 2s and 4s because not all rows have an even number of seats.

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I honestly had no idea. Never had it come up before. And when I was trying to buy I was just zeroed in on four seats. I wasn't even looking at how many seats were on either side because it was all happening so fast.

And this concert should have had no worry about leaving singles. Even those were snatched up within minutes.

I have a suspicion the single seat rule was only limited to the one section I tried to buy in. All the other sections were significantly more expensive. The prices jumped from $137 to $310 and then to $450 (and more). And there were plenty of orphan seats in the more expensive sections.

TXTransplant said:

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Another Doug said:

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Quote:

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Because it's the singles and the groups of 3 who are causing this problem.

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No, its not. It leaving singles thats the problem. It doesn't matter if its 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 or 23 people buying, if you allow leaving singles, you limit how many people can get in the venue.

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So sell seats in 2s/pairs that are linked. Meaning. If you buy seat 2 in a row, you have to buy seat 1, and not seat 3 (because that would leave seat 1 as a single). It's not hard to do if they can prevent me from buying four tickets because there is a fifth empty seat on the other side.

Buying an odd number of seats will cause more problems than not, too (especially if you buy only 1 ticket), and this eliminates that as well.

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You're wrong and your suggestion is much worse and if you don't understand that by now, you probably never will.