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This should make a number of you happy (Paramount going anti-woke)...

4,664 Views | 57 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by FL_Ag1998
TCTTS
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... and I don't mean that sarcastically. The industry desperately needs a new balance/equilibrium....





Milwaukees Best Light
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Isn't this the guy that pissed off Taylor Sheridan? If so, seems kinda damage control timing for this.

Admittedly, I don't recall the names of the folks that Sheridan was pissed at in the one article I skimmed, only that he left them cause he was pissed at a couple people.
TCTTS
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Ellison's strategy outlined in the article has been in effect/known about since long before the Sheridan split. In other words, this isn't damage control. And it wasn't Ellison who pissed off Sheridan, it was Ellison's TV execs, who are looking to make cheaper shows going forward (granted, at the behest of Ellison). Not cheap, just cheaper, seeing as Sheridan's shows have ballooned in budget, with numerous episodes now costing as much as shows like Game of Thrones. Sheridan felt disrespected in that regard (and others), so he bolted. Still, his Paramount deal isn't up for another three years, so he'll continue making shows and movies for the studio until then. That said, for those who want Hollywood to be less woke in general, Sheridan leaving for another studio should be good news, seeing as his more heartland sensibilities won't be contained to just one studio in the future.
javajaws
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Yeah I think 3 more years of Sheridan are about all the viewing audience can take at this point. Keeping him longer would be like us giving Jimbo yet another raise instead of canning him.
double aught
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This seems appropriate since the Paramount Network was Spike TV in a previous life.
Lathspell
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I mean... that's one step. But i don't want to see an overcorrection and leaning too much the other side. I just want this **** out of my media. I want great stories and great characters. I want filmmakers and writers to simply not have to worry about appeasing some intersectional group. Put story first and don't worry if you can squeeze X number of black or brown people into it. Just tell an authentic and good story.

Hell, the biggest movie of the year was created by a woman of Korean descent who wanted to tell a story that shined a light on Korean culture, history, and Kpop. That's the story she wanted to tell and she created a fully original story in which to do it. Fantastic! Great! I love the opportunity to see and hear great stories from great storytellers and LOVE getting some windows into other cultures. What I don't want is to hear about them remaking a movie and simply race-swapping just so they can check a box and feel better about themselves. That's simply shallow and inauthentic.

I used to also like to see when Disney would do this with so many of their classic movies. More recent movies like Moana and Coco were also telling stories from completely different cultural lenses and backgrounds. Fantastic! Great! These are all subjects I love seeing in films and shows. These movies felt authentic and they succeeded massively at the box office because audiences loved the stories.

It's funny; the only movie I can think of that should have come closest to "representing" me was Encanto. As a half-Colombian, I thought that movie was stupid and I didn't find any real common threads between anything in that movie and my family or life experiences. Granted, I don't care, because I don't rely on seeing that in movies/shows to validate my existence.
Cliff.Booth
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I don't know enough to know, but I'm skeptical about this making much of a difference. This seems like remodeling a house abandoned and rotting for 50 years by painting the trim. Like with academia and journalism, when 90% or higher of any institution are committed leftists who refuse to work with/collaborate with/know anyone even marginally right of them, and actively paint them not just as someone they disagree with but as evil/fascists/nazis etc, the problem is terminal. I'm not saying Hollywood is beyond fixing, but it would take literally either moving the industry out of LA, or decades worth of personnel changes. I'd love to be proven wrong on that.
FL_Ag1998
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What those tweets are describing....is it really that crazy? I mean, yeah, its a reversal of the trend we've seen in Hollywood over the past 20 years, but it really just seems like a return to pre-2000's Hollywood.

I mean, I grew up on Stallone and Schwartzenegger. He-man and G.I. Joe. And before that was Bronson and McQueen and Eastwood and so many others. Hollywood was very masculine prior to masculinity being deemed toxic by self-proclaimed progressive minds.

The media is going to label this as a move towards "alpha" males and "MAGA culture". But in reality it's simply a return to what was normal in human history prior to the recent attempt to wipe out masculinity.
TCTTS
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Please show me your sourcing for this "90%." Otherwise, I'll assume you pulled that stat out of your ass, considering I work in this industry and know for a fact it's inaccurate.

Also, explain how certain liberal creatives are going to overrule the owner of the company.

Never mind the fact that David Ellison used daddy's money to make this deal happen, Larry Ellison (said daddy) is one of Trump's biggest supporters, and Trump's FCC had to approve the deal. Throw in Warner Bros, for which the Ellisons are currently the most aggressive bidders, and the Ellisons could soon very well own a majority of Hollywood. Which I assumed would be wet dream for those of you who constantly ***** and moan about how "woke" Hollywood is, but I guess not.
TCTTS
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You're right, and that's what excites me, and I thought would excite others. It's just that in a woke/post-woke climate, going back to that pre-2000s Hollywood of course sounds "toxic" and "MAGA" to the far left.
Quad Dog
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"Alpha-male-skewing"
TCTTS
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Ignore the tone of the reporting. Instead, concentrate on the substance/reality of the deal itself.
FL_Ag1998
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TCTTS said:

You're right, and that's what excites me, and I thought would excite others. It's just that in a woke/post-woke climate, going back to that pre-2000s Hollywood of course sounds "toxic" and "MAGA" to the far left.


Exactly. This is cautiously exciting news to me. Hopefully its the start of a trend (or reversal of the beta-male trend we've seen over the past 20 years). Maybe not. But goodness gracious Cliff, don't be so gloomy! When you see some light at the end of the tunnel don't automatically assume its a train coming to run you over.
oldarmy76
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double aught said:

This seems appropriate since the Paramount Network was Spike TV in a previous life.

Think they will bring back Joe Shmoe?
Richleau12
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I like it. Bring back movies for guys who like movies. There's clearly a demand that is not being met so I applaud Paramount for being first to meet it. Congrats to them. I will support their content provided it is as they are being described. If successful, the other content providers will follow suit because they have to.
double aught
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Now we're getting somewhere! That show was hilarious to college me and my roommates.
Cliff.Booth
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TCTTS said:

Please show me your sourcing for this "90%." Otherwise, I'll assume you pulled that stat out of your ass, considering I work in this industry and know for a fact it's inaccurate.

Also, explain how certain liberal creatives are going to overrule the owner of the company.

Never mind the fact that David Ellison used daddy's money to make this deal happen, Larry Ellison (said daddy) is one of Trump's biggest supporters, and Trump's FCC had to approve the deal. Throw in Warner Bros, for which the Ellisons are currently the most aggressive bidders, and the Ellisons could soon very well own a majority of Hollywood. Which I assumed would be wet dream for those of you who constantly ***** and moan about how "woke" Hollywood is, but I guess not.


Not, because of a point I made that you missed. Hollywood isn't just physical properties or studios, it's people. Institutional change on the scale needed to make a lasting difference won't happen when you acquire a company staffed with 90% people who hold contempt for you and anyone else across the US who looks/thinks/votes like you.

The success of a company like Angel Studios giving non-leftists a place to actually work in the movie industry is a more hopeful sign, but that's a modest thing in the grand scheme of the industry.

An outspoken conservative/Christian/non-leftist in Hollywood is absolutely out of luck, for now. I don't mean someone who claims they voted for Trump but would never ever ever ever mention that or what views made them do that when socializing with their colleagues. I mean someone who works in the industry and actually stands on business and isn't cowered into silence. I don't know how many people there are like that. Is it over 10%?
Cliff.Booth
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FL_Ag1998 said:

TCTTS said:

You're right, and that's what excites me, and I thought would excite others. It's just that in a woke/post-woke climate, going back to that pre-2000s Hollywood of course sounds "toxic" and "MAGA" to the far left.


Exactly. This is cautiously exciting news to me. Hopefully its the start of a trend (or reversal of the beta-male trend we've seen over the past 20 years). Maybe not. But goodness gracious Cliff, don't be so gloomy! When you see some light at the end of the tunnel don't automatically assume its a train coming to run you over.


Like I said, I'd love to be wrong on that outlook. I see light at the end of the tunnel in some respects in our country, but Hollywood sure as hell isn't one of them for now.
YouBet
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Seems like a good move towards some sanity. As I embark upon my 50s and continue to lose all touch with the current cultural zeitgeist, maybe this will bring me back into the fold.

I guess I could start with existing Taylor Sheridan shows of which I've never seen any of them that I'm aware of.
Counterpoint
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oldarmy76 said:

double aught said:

This seems appropriate since the Paramount Network was Spike TV in a previous life.

Think they will bring back Joe Shmoe?

They just did a new season earlier this year and it was awesome.
TCTTS
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Cliff.Booth said:

TCTTS said:

Please show me your sourcing for this "90%." Otherwise, I'll assume you pulled that stat out of your ass, considering I work in this industry and know for a fact it's inaccurate.

Also, explain how certain liberal creatives are going to overrule the owner of the company.

Never mind the fact that David Ellison used daddy's money to make this deal happen, Larry Ellison (said daddy) is one of Trump's biggest supporters, and Trump's FCC had to approve the deal. Throw in Warner Bros, for which the Ellisons are currently the most aggressive bidders, and the Ellisons could soon very well own a majority of Hollywood. Which I assumed would be wet dream for those of you who constantly ***** and moan about how "woke" Hollywood is, but I guess not.


Not, because of a point I made that you missed. Hollywood isn't just physical properties or studios, it's people. Institutional change on the scale needed to make a lasting difference won't happen when you acquire a company staffed with 90% people who hold contempt for you and anyone else across the US who looks/thinks/votes like you.

The success of a company like Angel Studios giving non-leftists a place to actually work in the movie industry is a more hopeful sign, but that's a modest thing in the grand scheme of the industry.

An outspoken conservative/Christian/non-leftist in Hollywood is absolutely out of luck, for now. I don't mean someone who claims they voted for Trump but would never ever ever ever mention that or what views made them do that when socializing with their colleagues. I mean someone who works in the industry and actually stands on business and isn't cowered into silence. I don't know how many people there are like that. Is it over 10%?


I didn't miss that point. Of corse Hollywood is people - whom, again, I've been around for 20+ years, and not a single one I know or have interacted with has ever expressed the deep-seeded "contempt" you so desperately think "90%" (again, a number you're pulling straight out of your ass) of them hold "for you and anyone else across the US who looks/thinks/votes like you." Any time anyone spouts this bull**** I know they're simply parroting the company line, because anyone who actually works in the industry knows that sentiment/statistic simply isn't true. But by all means keep stubbornly believing/peddling your nonsense from halfway across the country. You clearly know best!
Richleau12
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Ok, I'll choose to believe you. Then it sounds like Hollywood is tired of losing money and is now going to start making things people want to see. Is that the position then?
oragator
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This is what I have never understood about the entertainment industry generally.
There has been this large untapped market for decades and none of them had the guts to go after it. It was like they'd be breaking a taboo or would be thought less of by their peers for doing it.
Trump contributor or not, it's a smart business play if done right. I probably wouldn't watch much at all of what they produced, but I would invest in it if it had the right backers.
TCTTS
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Richleau12 said:

Ok, I'll choose to believe you. Then it sounds like Hollywood is tired of losing money and is now going to start making things people want to see. Is that the position then?


That's the position of CBS/Paramount, at least. It could also be the position of Warner Bros, should the Ellisons win that bid as well. And it looks to at least partially be the position of NBC/Universal, seeing as they went so hard after (and own over) Sheridan. I'm not saying that all of Hollywood is suddenly going MAGA, I'm simply saying that all signs point to there being increasingly less woke content and increasingly more "everyman" content. I'm also not denying that there are indeed many in Hollywood who fit Cliff's description, I'm just saying it's not anywhere remotely close to "90%."
Serious Lee
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oldarmy76 said:

double aught said:

This seems appropriate since the Paramount Network was Spike TV in a previous life.

Think they will bring back Joe Shmoe?

would LMAO if they troll everyone by bringing back jimmy kimmel
TXAG 05
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Serious Lee said:

oldarmy76 said:

double aught said:

This seems appropriate since the Paramount Network was Spike TV in a previous life.

Think they will bring back Joe Shmoe?

would LMAO if they troll everyone by bringing back jimmy kimmel


Jimmy Kimmel was only off the air for about a week. Or do you mean The Man Show?
El Gallo Blanco
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javajaws said:

Yeah I think 3 more years of Sheridan are about all the viewing audience can take at this point. Keeping him longer would be like us giving Jimbo yet another raise instead of canning him.

I can't figure him out. Several of his pieces of work are borderline masterpieces to me but it's like he needs to focus on quality over quantity or something. And I don't like him trending towars over-the-top uncomfortable sex scenes tbh. Seeing some tiddies in "Mayor of Kingstown" is one thing...highly graphic forced bondage orgy scenes in a show like "1923" is just too much. We get it, this guy is bad, I don't need an almost-hardcore-porn-scene to convey this message.
El Gallo Blanco
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TCTTS said:

Richleau12 said:

Ok, I'll choose to believe you. Then it sounds like Hollywood is tired of losing money and is now going to start making things people want to see. Is that the position then?


That's the position of CBS/Paramount, at least. It could also be the position of Warner Bros, should the Ellisons win that bid as well. And it looks to at least partially be the position of NBC/Universal, seeing as they went so hard after (and own over) Sheridan. I'm not saying that all of Hollywood is suddenly going MAGA, I'm simply saying that all signs point to there being increasingly less woke content and increasingly more "everyman" content. I'm also not denying that there are indeed many in Hollywood who fit Cliff's description, I'm just saying it's not anywhere remotely close to "90%."

Between this, and Jennifer Lawrence recently stating that she doesn't see it as her place to preach to the masses politically...I am hoping this is the beginning of a trend to resume focusing more closely on the bottom line, aka, content most Americans want.

We always knew the vast majority of Hollywood was liberal, and that wasn't an issue...just don't preach to us every chance you get or throw raging political tantrums and alienate half of the country who disagress with you. It started off as just Meryl Streep, Susan Sarandon, and Tim Robbins preaching at awards shows, yeah whatever...then social media came and it was like "holy sh**, these people effing hate us".

I am guessing J-Law finally realized that raging against a president, that half the country elected, actually makes those people feel a certain way and is maybe not the best business model. Hopefully others take note. Hollywood is meant to be a fun escape from the real world and all of it's heavy issues, imo.
zap
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Just do this...and mean it.

El Gallo Blanco
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zap said:

Just do this...and mean it.



What a freakin icon and amazing actor. Such a shame he is BSC, or completely compromised. I still like him tho...don't care what anyone says.
YouBet
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I was about to post that we can likely think Tom Cruise for this resurgence. That dude almost single-handedly got the Top Gun remake over the finish line. He's an absolute stud regardless of his personal life weirdness.
Lathspell
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I loved that message when I went to see that in the theater.

Movie star.
Serious Lee
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Quote:

Jimmy Kimmel was only off the air for about a week. Or do you mean The Man Show?

man show, or something of that nature.
EclipseAg
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YouBet said:

I guess I could start with existing Taylor Sheridan shows of which I've never seen any of them that I'm aware of.

"1883" was one of the best shows I've ever seen. The subject matter was unique and it was clear a great deal of effort was made -- and money spent -- to be authentic.

Sure, I had some minor quibbles with it, but overall it was a great piece of work. Great story telling, great acting, great cinematography. Sam Elliott should have won an Emmy for his scenes in the first episode.

Cliff.Booth
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TCTTS said:

Cliff.Booth said:

TCTTS said:

Please show me your sourcing for this "90%." Otherwise, I'll assume you pulled that stat out of your ass, considering I work in this industry and know for a fact it's inaccurate.

Also, explain how certain liberal creatives are going to overrule the owner of the company.

Never mind the fact that David Ellison used daddy's money to make this deal happen, Larry Ellison (said daddy) is one of Trump's biggest supporters, and Trump's FCC had to approve the deal. Throw in Warner Bros, for which the Ellisons are currently the most aggressive bidders, and the Ellisons could soon very well own a majority of Hollywood. Which I assumed would be wet dream for those of you who constantly ***** and moan about how "woke" Hollywood is, but I guess not.


Not, because of a point I made that you missed. Hollywood isn't just physical properties or studios, it's people. Institutional change on the scale needed to make a lasting difference won't happen when you acquire a company staffed with 90% people who hold contempt for you and anyone else across the US who looks/thinks/votes like you.

The success of a company like Angel Studios giving non-leftists a place to actually work in the movie industry is a more hopeful sign, but that's a modest thing in the grand scheme of the industry.

An outspoken conservative/Christian/non-leftist in Hollywood is absolutely out of luck, for now. I don't mean someone who claims they voted for Trump but would never ever ever ever mention that or what views made them do that when socializing with their colleagues. I mean someone who works in the industry and actually stands on business and isn't cowered into silence. I don't know how many people there are like that. Is it over 10%?


I didn't miss that point. Of corse Hollywood is people - whom, again, I've been around for 20+ years, and not a single one I know or have interacted with has ever expressed the deep-seeded "contempt" you so desperately think "90%" (again, a number you're pulling straight out of your ass) of them hold "for you and anyone else across the US who looks/thinks/votes like you." Any time anyone spouts this bull**** I know they're simply parroting the company line, because anyone who actually works in the industry knows that sentiment/statistic simply isn't true. But by all means keep stubbornly believing/peddling your nonsense from halfway across the country. You clearly know best!


I'm not saying I know best, in fact I started my post office with "I don't know enough to know", but I don't think a lot of people believe you when you claim, which you often do, that Hollywood is mostly just a bunch of political moderates or people who don't care about politics. I can only judge based on the handful of people I do personally know in the industry and of course on the shift in messaging/narratives/themes in content over the last couple of decades. Based on that, I don't think your appraisal is an accurate or honest one.
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