Looks like barring a miraculous fall full of rain we're going to have one this year.

Has any planning occurred to make burn night a "fire department training exercise" (I seem to recall that being one exemption) or otherwise lawfully work around the ban?

Uh oh Reds, drop everything, take note, Keegan wants to hear your plan! It must be in and approved by him no later than next week. Remember Keegan is a bonfire god.


Keegan, maybe they’ll put that $4,000 you were going to donate last November to good use and come up with a good plan to slide around the burn ban. Was that payment made by cash or check?

Thanks for the flame. Gosh forbid someone takes an interest in planning so that previous year's SNAFUs are avoided.

And let's be honest, planning in areas outside of cut and stack has been a major weakness of Student Bonfire. Look no further than the persistent traffic snarls and ad hoc burn night setup and execution that have been hallmarks of Student Bonfire for its entire existence. If SB wants to be seen as professional and squared away, the experience for the public at burn night must reflect that desired image.


I think we'd all like to see Student Bonfire succeed, but you seem intent on counterproductive personal attacks. I'd also add that your reflexive personal criticism and posturing is exactly the sort of defensive, insular mindset which was a key characteristic of the dysfunctional culture that led to the 1999 tragedy.


Finally, for the record, the donation was conditional in support of an effort to get a fire department to treat burn as a training exercise so it could go off as scheduled. That didn't happen. But if there's a plan to do such this year and it requires a contribution to the fire department to make it happen, then I'd happily support that financially.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 7/26/2011 1:30p).]

I’m perfectly fine with someone taking an interest in PLANNING so that “previous years SNAFUs are avoided”. What I get tired of is time and time again people including yourself assuming that those SNAFUs occurred due to a lack of planning or unintelligence on the part of the leadership (Reds and BOD included).

If you say you’re not inferring that leadership is not planning or they are not unintelligent in some regard I call you a liar my friend. The reason you never hear what their plan is/was is because they were too damn busy planning and working to execute the plan with the limited resources and funds available and I’m sorry but if you weren’t there they don’t have time to explain and ask for your approval, that’s what the Sheriff, TXDot and other local authorities (the professionals) are for.

Think for just one minute, wouldn’t you in vision that MORE than ANYBODY the Reds and BOD want to make the event go off without any issues and that they work every year harder than the last to make that happen? If you say yes then does that mean they are too damn stupid to make it happen and for some reason you have the final answer? If you say no than maybe you should take the time to meet those folks and learn about their burning desire.

I’ll be honest with you, I don’t think you have a damn inkling what sort of planning has taken place in the last few years on things outside of cut and stack or on cut and stack for that matter. If you did you wouldn’t be posting “has any planning occurred” here.

I’m not intent on personal attacks, I’m intent on “if you want to help then do something that matters” the personal attacks just stem from my frustration with stupidity. If you truly want to help than become informed about what is actually going on out there not just in the texags world before you “help make plans”. Your time will be spent much wiser that way.

BTW, I don’t exactly respond much to the “your defensive personal attacks is the same thing that lead to the 99 colapse”. Give me a break , really? I’ll promise you I’m quite open to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, and would consider my abilities and thought processes far from dysfunctional. You just have nothing that I’ve seen as constructive. What truly lead to 99 was a lot of people talking about taking action and simply doing nothing to change anything. Huh that sounds interestingly similar to what many do on here…

And “for the record” if you really have the burning desire to help bonfire you won’t place any conditions on it. Don’t worry though, I don’t think anybody held their breath believing the 4k was more than just lip service. A donation to the fire department IF they do something for us sounds awfully like paying off local officials to “turn a blind eye”. That my friend sounds like bribery…


Edit: Formating

[This message has been edited by Pro-Bonfire (edited 7/26/2011 4:43p).]

Take it to the "Across the Globe" board. So no one has to deal with this.

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I’m perfectly fine with someone taking an interest in PLANNING so that “previous years SNAFUs are avoided”.

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That's exactly what my original post was, and by your response, you made it clear that you were not fine with such an inquiry.

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I’ll be honest with you, I don’t think you have a damn inkling what sort of planning has taken place in the last few years on things outside of cut and stack or on cut and stack for that matter. If you did you wouldn’t be posting “has any planning occurred” here.

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Considering the lack of PR or statements, I am - like all other outside observers - left to only form opinions based on results and experiences. So you're correct, I don't have any idea. But such things tend to happen when inquiries are met with hostility.

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If you truly want to help than become informed about what is actually going on out there not just in the texags world before you “help make plans”.

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If I may make a suggestion, SB should have an email distribution list for supporters and donors to keep them in the loop on things. That's pretty standard protocol for any organization which is heavily dependent on constituent support. Indeed, most would regard it as essential. Well run organizations certainly don't make it incumbent on boosters to take initiative to seek out information, which, incidentally, is what I was trying to do when I started this thread.

Heck, a few months ago, I had a fairly lengthy conversation with a good friend who's a former greypot for Bonfire '03, and even he seemed to not be apprised of what was going on.

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BTW, I don’t exactly respond much to the “your defensive personal attacks is the same thing that lead to the 99 colapse”. Give me a break , really?

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Read the Linbeck report. Tunnel vision and cultural biases were points of emphasis. Adversarial insiders vs. outsiders mindsets are indicators of such problems.

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A donation to the fire department IF they do something for us sounds awfully like paying off local officials to “turn a blind eye”. That my friend sounds like bribery…

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Bribery? No. Covering the costs of their operation or other needs? Absolutely. Generally any sort of official presence from a group like a fire or police department isn't done as a freebie (many simply bill outright for overtime and the like), and things always run smoother when it's not all take and no give.

But again, nice attempt at an attack by attempting to imply that something shady was desired.


And if Student Bonfire wants to continue and grow their support base, they'd be wise to not be hostile to someone who's been a backer from day one, meeting with Luke and John during the summer of '02 and helping to sketch out basic ideas.

I've been writing checks or tossing cash to Student Bonfire since 2002. I have several handwritten notes of thanks from those that started it. I've personally ensured that Student Bonfire had a presence at the Austin Coach's Night - the first Coach's night to approve of such a presence - and made sure SB's presence would continue to be allowed when the University strongly expressed a desire for the banning of the group.


We're on the same team here (which you seemingly failed to recognize on this thread from its start), and a legitimate question deserves a legitimate response, not the flame you offered and confrontational stance you continue to take.

I only hope you're not any sort of leader or official, as that would reflect extremely poorly on the organization.


[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 7/26/2011 7:23p).]

Ok well I’ll start off by answering your original post.
I don’t know that any burn ban planning has happen as of yet but then again the semester hasn’t yet started. The Reds are probably more concerned with getting to the last few A&M clubs and coaches nights to pass the pot. I will say, there were numerous conversations last year around stack and “burn night” etc that the Reds and BOD had gone to the county and spoke with them many times (almost daily if not multiple times daily meetings with the judge and such). There is no sort of “exemption” that they would offer up in any shape form or fashion from what I recall.

As I said originally I’m perfectly fine with someone taking an interest in planning but this is not the place to do it. If you REALLY want to help GET IN TOUCH WITH THE LEADERSHIP. I’m sure some of them read here but I doubt any will ever take you up on your offer from there, its not a legitimate offer. Calling or emailing them IS.

So they need to make PR statements addressing exactly every single step they took to try and get an exemption to burn, every traffic plan they made that failed, everything? Really, that’s ludicrous.

If you make a suggestion to the leadership directly I’m sure they would willing as time permits to sit down and listen to your suggestion, you haven’t done that though have you? So what they are supposed to take your suggestion, post it in a monthly email and send it out? What else should the monthly email update provide??

I bet your former Greypot friend would be more informed if he were out there also. I’ve seen Girth around out there a lot in the past few years and even though I bet he couldn’t tell you off the cuff what’s going on with everything I bet he could find out in a matter of a phone call or two.

I don’t see that Student Bonfire has been hostile towards anybody? Why cause they haven’t answered your questions on texags?

I’m happy you’ve been a bonfire supporter tossing in spare change since ’02, I really am. That however doesn’t give you “the insiders right”. If you want to have the insiders right, go out there and get to know the leadership of today… Better yet go out and give them that $4k they probably desperately need and I bet they would really give you an insiders right…

We’re on the same page, and we’re not on the same page. I don’t think your ideas are all bad I think your execution of offering up the ideas is horrible.
And to answer your final statement, no I’m no form of leader or official I can assure you that, I'm just a bonfire participant with a little sense to take a look around and talk to the right people enough to keep myself in the know as I please.

@Pro-Bonfire: Keegan has not just been a "supporter"; he's been a participant.

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If you make a suggestion to the leadership directly I’m sure they would willing as time permits to sit down and listen to your suggestion, you haven’t done that though have you?

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I've talked to a few reds directly and informally, as they rose through the ranks from my old dorm's crew.

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If you REALLY want to help GET IN TOUCH WITH THE LEADERSHIP. I’m sure some of them read here but I doubt any will ever take you up on your offer from there, its not a legitimate offer. Calling or emailing them IS.

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There doesn't appear to be any contact information on StudentBonfire.com

Again, it shouldn't be incumbent on supporters to go on a hunting expedition to get plugged in.

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I’m happy you’ve been a bonfire supporter tossing in spare change since ’02, I really am.

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Spare change? Suffice it to say, my cumulative giving is solidly into the four figures.

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What else should the monthly email update provide??

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Talk to anyone that works in PR for a non-profit or community organization. In a nutshell, provide an executive summary of the group's activities of late. Project excitement. Give folks a reason to believe they are stakeholders and should continue their support. It doesn't have to be a term paper. A few paragraphs will suffice. Brevity is actually preferable in such communications, to be honest.

Keegan, I'm very glad you're a patient person.

Thank you again for your help in '06.

Pro, you a red? Then shut up. Or at least be positive.

Keegan:

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If I may make a suggestion, SB should have an email distribution list for supporters and donors to keep them in the loop on things. That's pretty standard protocol for any organization which is heavily dependent on constituent support. Indeed, most would regard it as essential.

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I've been trying to sell this idea too, but take it a step further and make it an avenue to market with, much like the emails we all get from Aggie Athletics or Apple or whatever. Billboards are great, but expensive and are limited by those who drive by, email is cheap and limited only by spam blockers. It could be a seriously good way to inform a large swath of former students that Bonfire is happening and burns on Nov. 22, etc...

Any thoughts on how that could be achieved? I don't know the first thing about mass-emails, what kind of bandwidth you'd need or how to go about attaining email addresses.

And back to the thread lead off: IHIOGA that SB is not gonna risk getting throw out of another county because they wanted to make a date on the calendar. Legal loophole or no, if the ground ain't wet, I doubt it'll get lit.

Pray for rain, I s'pose.

...and plan for alternative ways to raise $_0,000.

BUILD THE HELL OUT OF IT. Its not about burning it its about Aggies coming together to build it.

-Remember '99

Conner L. Brehm
Construction Science '14
Texas A&m University

The reality is that we don't just burn it to make room for next year. We burn it because SB needs people's five buckses to pay for its expenses.

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BUILD THE HELL OUT OF IT. Its not about burning it its about Aggies coming together to build it.

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Yeah, but beetching and moaning are Bonfire traditions almost as old as Cut and Stack. This ain't no hippie lovefest. You don't fight about something that you don't care about.

And you have to burn the damn thing at some point. You want the next generation of Ags to already know about Bonfire before they show up on campus. The best way is if their parents take them at some point, preferably every year. You can only do that if it's accessible.

I think it's sometimes hard to see how truly interconnected today's Bonfire is to the years' prior and the years' to come. Keegan is right. It has to be as perfect as possible this year and next year has to be better than that. This all lays the groundwork for the next time.

It's not a slight against anyone in SB to ask questions and make suggestions. SB will never get the benefit of the doubt because of mistakes that were made in the past. Can't change that. Just have to be better, work harder, do more and plow ahead. Nut up.

But, then again, it wouldn't be Bonfire if someone didn't get their panties in a wad.

[This message has been edited by KyleFieldSection143 (edited 7/27/2011 4:31p).]

True words.

I love when people, especially VERY in the know people like Keegan, offer constructive criticism and ask for a little foresight, only to get slammed by those who think they know better.

Didn't read the whole tirade, but I did chucle when pro said that they had plans, but were too busy to implement them. Sweet excuse!

Best of luck this coming year and here's to some rain, and if we don't get some rain, how about a plan!

Sorry, Pro, but I 100% agree with Keegan on this one. I love Bonfire, but for those of us with bills, careers, wives, and kids, it can be an "out of sight, out of mind" condition.

I fully intend to donate every year, but somehow or another I just "forget" with everything going. I get no emails, no letters, no phone calls, nothing to keep Bonfire on my mind. If the TMF or Century Club didn't call me and send me letters, I probably wouldn't donate to them either.

It's not because I don't want to. It's because I have multi million dollar construction projects of my own to worry about all day, and two wonderful kids and a loving wife to worry about all night.

It has to be clear that there is a communication issue. We don't all need "inside" knowledge, but just some updates, discussions, suggestion boxes, etc. Since I graduated, I hear nothing of SB unless I go out of my way to dig up information.

A lot of people help out with this thing, but there would be a lot more if they were just asked.

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Pro, you a red? Then shut up. Or at least be positive.

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What is this the flowers and sewing club? Grow a pair if you want to give criticism be open to it too.

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I've been trying to sell this idea too, but take it a step further and make it an avenue to market with, much like the emails we all get from Aggie Athletics or Apple or whatever. Billboards are great, but expensive and are limited by those who drive by, email is cheap and limited only by spam blockers. It could be a seriously good way to inform a large swath of former students that Bonfire is happening and burns on Nov. 22, etc...

Any thoughts on how that could be achieved? I don't know the first thing about mass-emails, what kind of bandwidth you'd need or how to go about attaining email addresses

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I remember there use to be one back around the 06 time period. Don’t know what happen to it but maybe the effectiveness vs. time spent was weighed and it was given up on.

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Yeah, but beetching and moaning are Bonfire traditions almost as old as Cut and Stack. This ain't no hippie lovefest. You don't fight about something that you don't care about.

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Couldn’t have said it better myself.

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I think it's sometimes hard to see how truly interconnected today's Bonfire is to the years' prior and the years' to come. Keegan is right. It has to be as perfect as possible this year and next year has to be better than that. This all lays the groundwork for the next time.

It's not a slight against anyone in SB to ask questions and make suggestions. SB will never get the benefit of the doubt because of mistakes that were made in the past. Can't change that. Just have to be better, work harder, do more and plow ahead. Nut up.

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Agreed here too. In my whole wrath I’m not trying to say SB is perfect, I just don’t think people give them as much credit as is due, especially old SB guys. I’ve seen those guys bust their arse and things still not turned out how they planned after months of planning and meetings and more planning and scratching a stick in the ground and planning and talking to officials, etc etc etc. That’s why it pisses me off when someone says they didn’t plan worth a crap and the event failed. If you think that you obviously are WAY to disconnected and need to get out and see what is actually going on or keep your opinions to yourself.

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I love when people, especially VERY in the know people like Keegan, offer constructive criticism and ask for a little foresight, only to get slammed by those who think they know better.

Didn't read the whole tirade, but I did chucle when pro said that they had plans, but were too busy to implement them. Sweet excuse!

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VERY in the know people still don’t always know everything. Like I’ve said I don’t think Keegan’s ideas are all bad I just think that time after time his ideas have been poorly given to leadership, ie thru Texags.
And when did I say they had plans are were too busy to implement? Can’t find that, I think I said they had plans and were too busy implementing them to tell TexAgs their plans…

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Sorry, Pro, but I 100% agree with Keegan on this one. I love Bonfire, but for those of us with bills, careers, wives, and kids, it can be an "out of sight, out of mind" condition.

I fully intend to donate every year, but somehow or another I just "forget" with everything going. I get no emails, no letters, no phone calls, nothing to keep Bonfire on my mind. If the TMF or Century Club didn't call me and send me letters, I probably wouldn't donate to them either.

It's not because I don't want to. It's because I have multi million dollar construction projects of my own to worry about all day, and two wonderful kids and a loving wife to worry about all night.

It has to be clear that there is a communication issue. We don't all need "inside" knowledge, but just some updates, discussions, suggestion boxes, etc. Since I graduated, I hear nothing of SB unless I go out of my way to dig up information.

A lot of people help out with this thing, but there would be a lot more if they were just asked.

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Poor excuse… We’re all busy, we all have jobs, we’ve all moved away from CS and let the thoughts of Bonfire slip to the back of our minds. Those that truly have the bonfire in their blood remember Bonfire every time the fall rolls around if not more. If you REALLY wanted to donate you’d send in a check or drop by and hand it to a Red on a game weekend. I seriously doubt another email among the hundreds in your inbox would “remind” you to send a donation in… The Century Club takes credit cards, pays people to make those calls, has automated draft programs, and the resources to do such things. This is Bonfire not an automated machine…
A lot more people would help more if they were just asked and a lot more people say they would help if they were just asked but then when asked DON’T. I doubt the 6, 7, 8ish Reds have time to call down a list of 1000+ people to ask for help. I bet if you offered up your help once you’d probably get a call the next time they needed it though.

I’m not looking for everyone to agree with me I’m just giving more food for thought, hell Terry knows what that’s like.

And just for one more clarification...

I don't disagree there is a communication disconnect. I would also argue, however, that the communication disconnect goes both ways!

Pro,

I'm busy right now, so I don't have time to offer a line by line rebuttal of your arguments, but I will say that it comes off to me that you're representing SB poorly and making serious efforts to run off or at least turn off older folks who are supporting your cause.

Relax. One of the successes in my career and in the people I've brought up has been coachability. That involves being receptive to criticism, realizing you're not perfect, and inviting opportunity to grow and get better.

[This message has been edited by SquareOne07 (edited 7/29/2011 8:05a).]

That’s funny cause I would consider myself to be one of those "older" folks that supports the cause as I am well removed from the day to day scene of Bonfire and B/CS altogether. I just happen to keep connected as much as possible when time permits... I in no way claim to represent the views of SB leadership or current membership

And rub your eyes once and re-read, I never said I wasn't receptive to criticism, that I didn’t realize I wasn't perfect or that I didn't invite opportunity to grow.
I DID criticize the method in which many criticize and fail to realize the world isn't perfect and neither is every idea they throw out and continue to thow SB under the bus cause its not the way they would have done it… You have no room to criticize if you don’t partake in the solution the problem. Just as if you don’t vote don’t gripe cause you hate your representitives…

Here’s an idea. Keegan, you say you wish they would email out updates and such to the former students, donors, etc. Your a computer guy of some sorts right? Have you offered to help set-up a list serve for them, help re-design the website? Anything?

Sorry just have to add.
I find it oh so funny how when I criticize someone’s criticism they automatically say I’m not open to criticism! HA

You should probably just take a break from TA for a while buddy...you're making yourself look like a real ass and certainly not helping SB's efforts.

Pot meet kettle.

Pro, you can't be serious man. Poor excuse?? Let's compare lives, man. I don't give a **** who you are, I'm trying to think of your average "pro bonfire aggie". I wish everyone was in your fantasy world of being the most red ass *******s that ever lived, but sorry.