I know because I am the one authoring this post and question, this topic will take a different turn than it normally would, but I'll ask anyway as I think it's something worth considering.

Given the current state of Texas, a tinder box, is Bonfire burning this year all but an impossibility? If it can be determined that it is in fact not going to burn before the project gets underway, does it make financial sense to undergo the project at all? I know the value of building it and continuing the tradition far outweigh the costs associated with it, but if you know you won't be able to recoup any costs from the burn night event, does that change this year's efforts?

Flame away...

I see it as a valid question and not one worth flaming over. It is actually a tough nut to crack.

The short answer to your question is that it will be built as planned like always citing exactly what you said about the benefits exceeding the costs. So from that standpoint, it is business as usual.

Burn night is going to be another issue. For sure we are not going to wait until the day of and hope for a miracle anymore. A "go/no go" decision will be made sometime before the event to give folks enough time to adjust and allow us to more easily work with our contracts.

As far as other changes to the efforts, it just means that this year is going to be tight financially and we are going to have to keep a close eye on costs. This "build a stack and pray for rain" is not really a sustainable business model, but it is all we have at this point. I, as well as everyone else involved, are struggling with this issue, but in this current weather pattern, there is not a whole lot of other options. I have personally done the research on the exemptions and training exercises arguments thrown around here from time to time and those really don't fit. There is still more research to be done and other possible options, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

Scott Coker '92

That answers most everything really. From my view there's just a couple other things.

First off, while it has been unmercifully dry, a contact in USGS water resource management has indicated that the moisture needed to bring this area to a safe and healthy level is achievable, and not unlikely sometime this fall. Personally, I won't hold my breath, but it is nice to know that the prognosis is not as bleak as it might seem to we uninformed.

Second, I'm sure you've included this in your list of benefits, but just to put it out there for the record. While the experience is invaluable to participants for reasons we all well know, continuity and likewise evolution are absolutely essential to the organization. If there is no as-scheduled burn this year, this year's costs won't be for naught as they will have preserved lines of leadership, added another generation of experience, tested and developed the next year's leaders, and informed the organization's improvements and progress.



[This message has been edited by FtnTXAg03 (edited 9/9/2011 10:48a).]

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If there is no as-scheduled burn this year, this year's costs won't be for naught as they will have preserved lines of leadership, added another generation of experience, tested and developed the next year's leaders, and informed the organization's improvements and progress.

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I couldn't agree with you more! Build The Hell...

The intangible value that Bonfire season brings is definitely worth something, but a financial backer, for example would want to know what that figure was I assume.

If Bonfire were to be built and not burnt and it costs ~$5,000, would that be worth it? What if it cost ~$25,000?

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The intangible value that Bonfire season brings is definitely worth something, but a financial backer, for example would want to know what that figure was I assume.

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Assigning book values to intangibles in business like brand names or intellectual property may be common practice, but even then it's a highly speculative estimate.

In addition to the intangibles that you're hinting at above, I would posit that the longterm outlook for SB is largely contingent on Bonfire events (cut, stack...) taking place annually, and therefore not just lines and experience are at stake, but the overall activity. Thats why my two-cents says that it's better to have a bad [no burn] year than no year at all.

It's always reassuring to hear from the top. Thanks guys.

Valid question, and solid feedback.

I know it's been awhile since I've been involved with anything bonfire related, but I'll throw my two cents in...

Is there some way that bonfire as a group can turn a negative circumstance, i.e. drought, into a positive that gives bonfire some much needed good press?

Barring a miracle, chances of Bonfire burning this year are slim to none. Could we have a couple of months of "cut" and then devote the manpower to a public service project that would take the place of time normally devoted to stack?

Regardless of what happens, people will have to be extra careful in the woods this year. One cigarette or hot car exhaust could set the woods on fire. I hope that there will be emergency response nearby to any cut site.


B.O.B. '06

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Is there some way that bonfire as a group can turn a negative circumstance, i.e. drought, into a positive that gives bonfire some much needed good press?

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Describe Cut as "forest fire prevention".

TooTall, I've passed along that exact same worry. A stray cig left smoldering in the woods when everyone is walking out could be a fire in the night.

Edit: Hadn't read the website yet. Apparently no smoking is allowed at Bonfire this year. Hell must have frozen over.

[This message has been edited by Fitch 10 (edited 9/13/2011 9:12p).]

Fitch...we've had smoking bans before, we'll see how well people follow it. I'm sure this is at the forefront of leaderships minds.

I'm just as worried about car exhaust, see Texas World Speedway fires.

It's a long cry from '04 when we were knee deep in mud. It's either or with bonfire seems like.

To my knowledge, smoking is banned at cut this year.


Load on the other hand.... We'll see

Cigarettes are banned at any and all bonfire property. Anyone with them will have them confiscated I believe.

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It's a long cry from '04 when we were knee deep in mud.

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Also, they cancelled a couple of days of Cut because of the rain. Don't see that happening this year.

I have a huge fear of fire at cut this year... with the current whether conditions a cig left on the ground isn't a fire in the night... its a massive fireball 10 min later... but its more that that... tractors and trucks driving through the site can easily spark a wildfire... we are unfortunately in the worst possible conditions for fires...

I think cut can be done safely... but a VERY strict zero tolerance policy must be enforced... at least until we get some rain

Where will "Bonfire" be this year as I sure hope I live far far away. If a wildfire happens to develop I feel bad for the landowner and/or the financial supporters who may be liable for damages! This drought is suppose to last a couple more years....is Bonfire really worth the risk? How about asking folks from Bastrop!

Nobody is going to light Bonfire if there is a burn ban, or people's safety and livelihood will be put at risk.

In the case of a 3 year burn ban... put the new stack next to the old ones!

They're not going to burn it if there's still a burn ban, they made that painfully obvious my chief year. As far as possible fires because ppl are in the woods at cut, ***holes who chuck cigarette butts out of their car windows are much more of a threat.

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tractors and trucks driving through the site can easily spark a wildfire...

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no, they can't...

the only real threat with vehicles is if you were to park in grass tall enough to contact the catalytic converter (the hottest part of the exhaust system). That is the only area where grass can reach its pyrolization and auto-ignition temperatures

The tractors at Bonfire simply won't, unless they've starting cutting hay and allowing grass to accumulate on the engine... which they haven't. Two days into cut and the grass is gone.

Open flame is the danger.

Every year, hell every weekend I visit, someone asks if I'd like to get in the mix. Calling logs, getting in swings. One old buddy in particular likes to say he remembers me in my years as "scary," or some more impolite version thereof. He's often in my ear saying "Why don't you show these guys what that was like?"

The fact is, my time is and has long been done. These days I'm a fan, an admirer. And while I have (quite happily) taken on a facilitative role, I (and any other dead) am no longer in a position to do the things I once did. I don't live with ya'll, I don't know all of your brothers' and sisters' names, what your parents taught you growing up, your favorite pet waiting at home. That's the kind of closeness one needs to helm this kind of work. It's this generation's family, and this generation's turn.

Now, I say all that to say this. For the first time in years I can say that absolutely, unequivocally, without hesitation, this one matter could bear intercession (though I am certain it will not be required). But assuming for the sake of argument a ridiculous, implausible, asinine, cockeyed hypothetical...

One ****** cigarette, cigar, pipe, **** g*****n m************ wanna-be-a Clint Eastwood chomping on a soggy mush-mouthed never-lit ceegar, couldn't give a **** less, I will ******* ********** **** *** in the ******* **** until ******** **** and ******. ****.

Seriously though, Bonfire owes its friends and neighbors a debt of gratitude for their hospitality and support. Though the story of the first Bonfires stripping porches of furniture and fields of whole barns are charming(?), the modern organization has proven itself to be a useful and proactive neighbor. This year, possibly more than ever, Bonfire's friends are trusting the organization to take care of them. That is what Bonfire will do.

Unfortunately they can and do. while you are right about the most common causes, the current conditions present plenty of other opportunities, even in very low grass

I have faith that all of the proper precautions are being taken in regards to minimize the chances of any of this happening... and I will take the same approach if I catch anyone smoking while im out there(which isn't much these days)

Dion is right. 100%.

Bonfire owes its success not only to the participants but also to the community where it takes place. Being good stewards of the land and aware and careful of folks property and feelings is a major selling point of acquiring places to cut and burn.

And don't dare think that a slip up will go un-noticed. It can, it will, and the reputation of the whole organization can and will be tarnished for nought. I know this. I did not heed these tenets in 2005 and lit the sonofa***** because it was the popular opinion amongst the Bonfire folk. And that's exactly what we're going to do to them Ag's, right? Wrong. Bull***** I fouled up. I let down Student Bonfire and what it stood for; a symbol of that Aggie Spirit. We perverted the whole damn thing by making it into an "idol". Don't do this folks, it ain't the way.

Folks, just one slip up can end this beautiful venture. A flicked smoke, a hot exhaust pipe,stray spark, etc. can be disastrous. Never mind the blanketyblank mechanics and dick in the hand trifle arguments about what might and might not start a fire. Be careful. Pay attention. Look out for one another. Do this always. And not just at Bonfire.

Ya'll should be proud to know that at the present time Bonfire is in the care of the best and most talented people that it has ever been. I know these men and women. They look out for you; care about your well being, and are willing and eager to share with you one of the best traditions that an Aggie can experience. Help them. Help yourself. Help others. Build the Hell Outta Bonfire.


Never mind the mule being blind, just load the goddamned wagon.

I was moved by the speech, but didn't understand how the mule applies to the situation.

That is my signature line.

Never mind the mule being blind, just load the goddamned wagon.

James,

2005 wasn't a mistake, and ya'll did not light it because it was the popular opinion... There was much more to that night, and despite appearances and a media thrashing, it was not reckless either. The only thing unfortunate about that night was the pine not burning.

the thing is, the stories that get passed down the lines of '05 need to include the 'why' as well as the 'what'. Without the 'why', it was a bunch of kids that didn't want to be told 'no'...

when in fact, it was a group that was doing everything they could to do things right while the rules kept changing. Brazos County knew what they were doing... So did Student Bonfire... In the end it was a stalemate. Brazos county got rid of Bonfire, while the Aggies kept it alive.

there is a huge difference between now and then in the relationship between Robertson County and Student Bonfire... It is a very good one, and I, for one, hope it stays that way. This is one reason the Aggie Network stepped up and footed the bill for the seven of you... I doubt that would happen again unless a large group of Former Students felt the citations were given in spite of doing the right thing. (oh and by the way... Lighting a fire during a burn ban is a state felony now...)

we did everything we could to keep her lit... We just ran out of time.

Rebel,

As respectfully as I can be while making my point: You are part correct-2005 Bonfire was a success. The decision to burn in '05 was a mistake. Plain and simple. There is no way to sugar coat it.

Think about this for a minute (goes for everyone):

Think about when you were a fish or first timer out at Bonfire. Think about the stories and antics told to you about Bonfire and what's Redass. The young'uns out there are very impressionable (even though they are grown adults). It is poison to let them or anyone else think that what happened was OK. It wasn't. It seemed right at the time, but it was not. As Larry Potterfield from MidwayUSA puts it "That's the way it is." Enough of 2005, this was to illustrate the point made previously.

On another note: Robertson, Brazos, Burleson, Grimes, hell any county or municipality for that matter. SB must work with these folks (where the venue is held) to achieve success not only for the present but for the future. Good proactive measures like the ones taken by SB are key in building professional relationships between SB and the governing bodies. These relationships are vital in ensuring the continuation of SB.



Never mind the mule being blind, just load the goddamned wagon.

I believe what was at the time the emotionally correct decision was, in hindsight, a poor one... everybody involved wanted that fire lit... but what is redass is not always right

No matter how the county officials were behaving, the law should have been followed... But I gotta admit, at the time I was damn proud it was lit because, as James said, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WERE GONNA DO TO EM AGS

Wow, James, becoming a professor sure has made you wise!

Rebel, it is not a felony. Class C misdemeanor. See section 352.081 h.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/LG/htm/LG.352.htm#352.081]

Regardless, there are arguments to state whether 2005 was right or wrong. I have mixed opinions on that and I will hold off until I have more time, but, James it takes a big man to look back and say "we were wrong." Especially in this group

One note to make about 2005 that I wanted to bring up to folks like armymom....The concerns there are 100% valid but I hope you recognize that SB is not just a bunch of kids lighting fires without regard. As an example from 2005, the decision to light it was made, good or bad, it was made and believe it or not there was coordination with county officials. They were not endorsing it, but they did coordinate where they would meet to issue citations, who would be there to cover the area if something happened etc. I bring this up to point out the following: Once the officers and firefighters on site were done for the night and ready to go (midnight was the plan), we would be left with a slowly smoldering pile of wood. A bunch of kids that just wanted a fire to burn would have let the firemen leave and hoped it rekindled. Instead, to prevent a fire in the night sparking and getting out of control, SB elected to have the embers extinguished. I don't know about the rest of you, but to watch Bonfire put out was kinda hard, but it showed me that at that moment SB grew and matured by a huge chunk that has evolved into the policies we have today regarding burns. I was proud of the the way the guys navigated the courts to even get to light the thing, but I was even prouder of how they all accepted the best decision at the end of the night like adults. Recognizing what was best for the future was not the most popular choice at the time.


Scott Coker '92

Scott, my mistake, I thought I read in the code that had changed in 2007 as the drought was getting worse, and it was becoming more apparent that somebody who was recklessly willing to risk a simple fine could do too much damage.

but regardless, there is a very thin line between knowingly starting a fire during a burn ban and what could be legally considered arson, especially if the embers get out of hand.

Don't logs have to burn before they can be considered "embers"?

i agree with jimmy t

hey that rhymed!