Memorial Appropriate?

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Dear Abby
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I spent many days working on the bonfire back in my day and I am quite familiar with the Aggie spirit...not to be confused with the "Holy Spirit."

My question for yall is:

Is it appropriate to dedicate this much money, effort, time, and land to 12 folks who died doing recreational activities?

There have been several Ags, one of them a close friend, who have died serving their country over the past couple of years. I was dissappointed to walk into the Corps Center recently and see no mention of my buddy's ultimate sacrifice or any other Ags who had died recently.

I just wonder sometimes...are we putting this much effort into this partly because of the lawsuits and to appease the family members?

My heart goes out to those families and to the Ags who knew them well, but in light of the current War on Terror, this memorial seems a little much to me.
Dear Abby
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I just wish the University would have spent all that time and money getting the Bonfire back on campus.
karen03
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Where you here when bonfire fell?
Dear Abby
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No, but my wife was. I am not convinced either way. I just want to hear some heartfelt logic as to why this is appropriate.
NoACDamnit
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quote:
Is it appropriate to dedicate this much money, effort, time, and land to 12 folks who died doing recreational activities?


Yes.
Ol Army B-1 03
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AG
i agree with you somewhat...i mean something needed to be done but 5+ million dollars when they are still asking for more...sounds like someone is overcompensating

IDMA
05munkee
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The university needs something to point to when they say "We're doing something". Something to distract everyone from the fact that they get to hide behind the .5 Mil Liability Cap for state entities.
NoACDamnit
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How are they "hiding" behind the caps? The school is a state entity. It's not like they have free reign over taxpayer funds.
AB2
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AG
What NoAC said.
Mom Class of '03,'05 and '09
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S
Dear Abby,

Five years ago my daughter lost a new friend when the school's Bonfire fell and killed 11 students and one former student.These people willingly gave their time and hearts to a student run project that they all loved but they did not work their shift that night thinking of the hell their parents would be put through.They did not GIVE their lives for a stack of logs..it was taken from them and their parents were robbed of future generations from these children.

The school has now created a beautiful memorial to these students in the form of a memorial to the Bonfire that killed them..am I the only one confused?The personal comments from or about the deceased are very special as are their likenesses but all the signicant mention of the Bonfire to me is saying we should overlook the loss of precious life to support a stack of logs.Many of the parents would like Bonfire to return to campus ONLY if it is properly supervised and WRITTEN plans are used and altered ONLY for additional safety.Other parents never want to take this chance again.

Did I mention the injured?Some will become old men and women and have recurrences or aggravations of these injuries and there has been no provision made for them..one special student will have life long needs and yet there is no account to assist with his future needs and what if he is ever denied coverage because everything wrong with him happened at 19 and will be considered pre-existing.

We had funds available for all these causes,a nice memorial,survivor assistance, and future needs and past students all ready to annually give to the fund for life but now we have this beautiful memorial and so many unanswered questions.Abby can you help me understand all this.

Confused MOM
PKPAggie1
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I beel that a memorial is very appropriate. Having said that the memorial that was constructed is way over the top in scale. However, its built so not much can be done about it now.

"I voted for it before I voted against it."
txaggiegrl
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I was here when Bonfire collapsed, I don't understand why all the families said they wouldn't sue, and then turned around and sued. The university paid for expenses. They died or were injured doing something they loved. How is a couple of million dollars going to bring back your loved on? It won't fill the void, and I have noticed a big change on campus over the past few years. The students are falling apart and the commardiere is no longer felt, a great example was what happened with the ticket pull for the Cotton Bowl tickets. Bonfire needs to be brought back to campus, it taught the students how to work together with strangers and great friendships were forged in the meantime.

Class of 2003, still lives on.

[This message has been edited by txaggiegrl (edited 12/10/2004 11:50a).]
AB2
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AG
txaggiegrl - I agree wholeheartedly that not having Bonfire has affected cameraderie and spirit on campus, but tying the listeater to that is a tad over-the-top. The list eater still lives at home in a nearby town and the odds of it showing up at anything other than burn sit somewhere between slim and none.
Whoop05
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While I agree that the camaraderie on campus is at an all-time low...I think the list-eater is exactly the OPPOSITE example. Sad as it is...the campus has kind of pulled together in effort to make fun of the girl. She's become one big running joke. That's all we've got...
AB2
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I dunno...some guys built a pretty cool Bonfire this year.
MrD05
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Alot of new army didn't come out though... they don't like mud... maybe we should get list eater to eat any mud that is out there next year.

Isn't the MSC a memorial for all Aggies that have given their life serving this country?
Dear Abby
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That was a great point about the MSC. I may have it wrong, but I was still disappointed with the lack of focus on recent aggies who have given their lives on my recent campus visit.
Frisk151
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I think it is more than appropriate.. I never expected anything less.
AAM02
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AG
the Memorial Student Center is dedicated to all Aggies who have given their lives for our country. No hats, no walking on grass is done as a conscious show of respect to those Aggies as well.

It doesn't take a huge memorial to show respect and appreciation for these people.

Also - I don't think the bonfire memorial is such a bad thing ... I believe it's a symbol of the importance of life - the reality of death - and will inspire many college students who take the time to check it out.
Ol Army B-1 03
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it's nice and all but i wish the money had been given to the families and the injuries to cover health expenses instead of 5 mil being thrown at the memorial

IDMA
dutch_chicken
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quote:
it's nice and all but i wish the money had been given to the families and the injuries to cover health expenses instead of 5 mil being thrown at the memorial


I agree. The whole reason I no longer give money to the University is because I disagree with their handling of the money that WE freely gave to the Bonfire fund. I disagree with how they are hiding behind a $500,000 cap (I know, they do not have free reign over taxpayer money) while leaving STUDENTS to take 100% of the rap for this. I will never give them money as long as families and vicitms are still in need of money for medical bills and have no other recourse but to sue students. It is time for the University to do the right thing. Give MY money (ie. Bonfire Fund money) to the families without all of the red-tape, and then put Bonfire medical expenses into the budget for however long it takes. It won't break the budget, it will make everyone happier, and it will help disgruntled Former Students like me feel like giving again.

I admit to a little bit of sick pleasure whenever I get a piece of mail saying that they are in danger of not making their fund raising goals.
Pooh-Ah 1996 Chuck
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It's funny how people feel they should have a say in how other people spend their money. The funds for the memorial were largely (though not entirely) raised privately, so it's not like $5 Million of your property taxes built it. I think it is a touching memorial to the tragedy and I think it is appropriate.

The argument that the money should go to the families has some flaws. I don't think there is any question that the victims and the families need to be made whole financially. But more money than that isn't going to bring anyone back. It's not as though an extra $1Million is going to make it "OK", but absent that money it's "Not OK". It's always going to be "Not OK".

The best thing we can do is to tell the story and have people remember what happened. The memorial does just that and I think it does it very well.

Now, as far as parents being so concerned about the safety of Bonfire in the future...
...parents need to chill out. If they put that much effort into addressing cigarettes, tanning, drinking and everything else their fully grown, adult, children willingly engage in that they know is harmful, well then they might actually create a little value. Rest assured, everyone involved in Bonfire now knows that there are significant risks to be considered.
Ol Army B-1 03
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quote:
I don't think there is any question that the victims and the families need to be made whole financially. But more money than that isn't going to bring anyone back.


Well let's use an example of what we are talking about. John Comstock does not have a wheelchair accessible bathroom in his home. the 5 mil should have gone to things like this. not a huge memorial. we needed a memorial yes but it could have been much simpler in design and cost

IDMA
dutch_chicken
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quote:
It's funny how people feel they should have a say in how other people spend their money. The funds for the memorial were largely (though not entirely) raised privately, so it's not like $5 Million of your property taxes built it. I think it is a touching memorial to the tragedy and I think it is appropriate.


That isn't what I said at all. The money that was raised for the victims and their families has so much red tape around it that the families have trouble getting it. I did not give money so that the University could force people to relive their agony on a daily basis just to get some cash to cover their medical expenses. I like the fact that we have a memorial, but I think that it should have waited until such time as the families and victims had been taken care of. It is a matter of priority. At this point it appears that a memorial and some University CYA are more important than the victims, their families and the former students whose lives have been destoyed by this accident.

quote:
The argument that the money should go to the families has some flaws. I don't think there is any question that the victims and the families need to be made whole financially. But more money than that isn't going to bring anyone back. It's not as though an extra $1Million is going to make it "OK", but absent that money it's "Not OK". It's always going to be "Not OK".


Your argument is not based on facts. The families would not have sued had the University done what is right. No lawsuits were filed until the statute of limitations got close and the University didn't appear to be doing anything but biding its time. Had they put some mechanism into place to make sure that the families got what they needed there likely would be no lawsuits. As much as I despise the idea of these families suing the former reds, I understand their reasoning.

The University can "hide" behind the cap because, no matter what, they are out only $500,000. That means that the medical expenses of 27 people, the funerals of 12 people and the various psychological expenses of even more people have to come out of $500,000. It is my understanding that John Comstock's expenses alone eclipse this amount. If you are getting no satisfaction from the University and your time limit to take any action at all is coming up you do what you have to do. Thus the lawsuits. If the University had taken responsibility and not made the families jump through hoops to receive the money that people like me gave this would not have happened.

If I had been told that there would be a ton of red tape to get the money, and a memorial built from the funds before the families were taken care of, I would never have given a red cent.

Is the memorial appropriate? Sure. But the timing was not.
brown eyes
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I must admit that I find it odd that there were no private funds immediately founded by the university to cover expenses related to the collapse. Just this semester I've seen thousands of "International Howdy" shirts sold to cover all of the expenses of the affected victims of the university apartment fire. I assume, rather I hope, that the victims of that fire have had no trouble receiving the funds raised from the sale of the shirts.

I in no way am trying to minimalize what happened to those in the university apartments, but the scale of that tragedy is nowhere near that of the collapse, and yet it seems those victims have had an easier time receiving financial relief. This seems more than a little odd to me.

I won't speculate on the politics involved, but I think the whole situation is a shame.
halfpint05
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As far as recognition in the corps center for our fallen Ags in the war, I think it's probable that there will be some kind of memorial when the war is over. To try and do anything now would be difficult since unfortunately there may be more to come.
NoACDamnit
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I think it's probable that there will be some kind of memorial when the war is over.


Why? We don't have memorials for Korea, VietNam, or Gulf War I. I'm doubting that Gulf War II would somehow get one when the others did not.
califflash
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Well first I would like to reply to those that, what I would call, down bonfire. I realize where those people come from. I'm not a parent and cannot assume to understand how they fear for their children, or how possibly they would react to their child's death. However, I cannot help but think the legal battle with A&M is blowing things out of proportion.

I realize that these people have sustained a loss, but money will not bring those people back. If they were out to punish someone that damage has been done. Bonfire is no longer on campus, and everything it did for A&M is clearly not very strong anymore. Its like the underlying fabric of the community that was here, that I first fell in love with and made me want to come to A&M, is gone.

I am not saying that these families are now only out for their piece of the pie. I believe that their persuit for justice has just gone too far. A&M has already admitted fault, signed several contracts, and essentially made it impossible for bonfire to come back as a student run organization.

What these families don't realize is that their children had to have known they were taking risks, and what those risks might lead to. People have died before while working on bonfire. Given that it has never happened in the way or on the scale of that in '99. The knowledge is everpresent in the back of your mind that if something were to go seriously wrong; maybe not due to any one person's mistakes or even a small group of people's, but an add up of all the little things that can go wrong. If something were to ever go seriously wrong that someone could very easily die or be injured. Its not really talked about, people keep their focus on the job at hand. They keep their focus so that they do the best job they can do, because their buddy next to them is relying on them to do their part. I guess that's not a really clear explination. More to the point when you and about 30-50 other people are going out everyweekend and not only cutting down trees, inherently dangerous in itself, but also carrying the logs most weighing at least 400lbs and some as much as 1500lb (or at least it feals like it) YOU KNOW that if someone were to not give it their all and the log started to drop that there is a chance that someone, maybe you, could get in a bind (pinched). Not just that but maybe die.

Now there has to be someone here who has not experienced bonfire, aggie or not, and ask the question, "why take such a risk?" I have just helped build my first bonfire. I am a fish. If you are an aggie this is going to be kind of like trying to explain to a non-aggie how it feels to be an aggie. Bonfire, while not the only tradition at A&M, definitely must have made the most impact.

I can tell a definate difference in the people from when I first visited A&M 4 years ago and now. I hear stories of last year or the year before that about how people simply saying howdy have declined.

Believe it or not bonfire really does build friendships and confidence in people. You really will do things that you don't think are possible. Yeah, you think if you get enough people that you can lift anything. Tell me that when there is only 30 people to lift a log nearly 30 feet long and at least two feet around, and both your shoulders are bleeding through your shirt and so are they guys' next to you because all you have done all day is carry out nubby logs. We did it though. To be completely honest I didn't think it would happen. There is nothing like that feeling when everyone gives it their all and before you know it this enormous log is resting on your shoulder and you and your buddies are carrying it through the woods. It builds confidence it creates friendships, not because everybody gets together but because your and the person next to you are about to do something normal people look at and think is impossible, or stupid. It sets you apart and that creates a bond I can't really describe.

Now those of you non-bonfire folk out there are probably wondering why I would risk my life to make a few friends and a self-esteem boost. Its just so much more than that. If you are an ag, a true ag you know that only the simplest terms can describe how it feels to be an ag, but there is so much more too it. You just stumble over your words because it makes you feel like nothing else, impossible to describe. Its the same thing with bonfire. If you really want to know why I would particpate in something that is currently under a lot of scruteny, is struggling for survival, and 12 people GAVE, I don't care what anybody says even though those people did not die voluntarily they were pouring their heart and souls into what they loved, their lives for you will have to find out for yourself. Its easy enough to find out about bonfire just ask around Sbisa at about 6:00 every night.

I honestly did not start out writing trying to recruit people, and I am still not. I am just trying to give a little understanding to those that would criticize what I, and many others, do. We love it as much as a person could love anything or anyone. At this time in our lives its helping form who we will be forever. The feeling is ecstatic when I think about that me and my buddies built something so big, and poured so much, literaly, blood, sweat, and tears into. That probably was not the best explination about how my buddies or even me for that matter, feel about bonfire and the goings on of the legal battle. However; I hope anybody that reads this understands a little more about bonfire and why people did and still do build it.



Build The Hell Out'a Bonfire!
texasaggie04
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quote:
There have been several Ags, one of them a close friend, who have died serving their country over the past couple of years. I was dissappointed to walk into the Corps Center recently and see no mention of my buddy's ultimate sacrifice or any other Ags who had died recently.


I would recommend going into the Corps Center and asking them why the more recent wars are not represented. Just be direct about it and see what reasoning they give. If it's a money issue, then I'm sure that there will be opportunities to raise the money for it, I guarantee that there are former students who would be willing to donate to that cause. Maybe you could spearhead something?
3rd Generation Ag
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I thought the names of the fallen are on the arches at the quad?
tree91
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There is a memorial to all Ags who have fallen in battle since WWII. It is on the west side of the plaza in front of the Quad arches. It lists each name. I remember names being added after the first Gulf War, but since I am no longer in CS, I don't know when it was last updated.

Pay attention.
CanyonAg77
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There were 4 Ags lost in Gulf War I. Their names are on the benches by the Fish Pond. I was there at the dedication, as I knew Rick Price '74.
aggielostinETX
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quote:
Is it appropriate to dedicate this much money, effort, time, and land to 12 folks who died doing recreational activities?

There have been several Ags, one of them a close friend, who have died serving their country over the past couple of years. I was dissappointed to walk into the Corps Center recently and see no mention of my buddy's ultimate sacrifice or any other Ags who had died recently.

I just wonder sometimes...are we putting this much effort into this partly because of the lawsuits and to appease the family members?

My heart goes out to those families and to the Ags who knew them well, but in light of the current War on Terror, this memorial seems a little much to me.


I dont know quite how to respon to this.

The memorial is very appropriate. I had tears in my eyes before I even got to the center ring. I lost a few friends that night who were doing what they loved to support a university that they loved. It was a tragic accident that should never be forgotten. Bonfire has never been just about building a fire. There is so much more, and if you don't understand that, then you will never understand what the mememorial signifies.

I understand your loss and I think that all fallen soldiers should be recognized, but to say one persons death deserves more recognition than someone elses, shows an irreverence to both.

quote:
Beware the Lollipop of Mediocrity, Lick it once and you suck forever.

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