Elephant in the room - Olympic Last Supper parody

10,295 Views | 131 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by The Banned
PabloSerna
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Gave it the 24 hour rule...

My feelings haven't changed that much. I laughed and thought oh my! That's not cool.

Maybe it is because it wasn't the first time I have seen grown men dress in drag (I lived for years in South Austin and still work in the downtown area). Maybe it's because as a Christian, I know that we have been a "pinata" for the world to smack around since the Romans lit up the early Christian martyrs (the original Roman candle) and Hollywood continues today with uninformed portrayals of exorcisms, so-called Vatican secrets, and on and on. Not much surprises, nor shocks me anymore when it comes to these types of attempts by artists who know very little of my faith, but choose to use it as a medium for their vision.

This is more obvious when you read what the opening ceremony's artistic director, Thomas Jolly, had to say:

"My wish isn't to be subversive, nor to mock or to shock," Jolly said. "Most of all, I wanted to send a message of love, a message of inclusion and not at all to divide." Jolly went on to say, "In France, we have the right to love each other, as we want and with who we want. In France, we have the right to believe or to not believe. In France, we have a lot of rights. Voila."

It was both shocking and offending to many who understand the significance of that moment when Jesus gathered his friends and broke bread for the last time. More importantly, it is when he instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist. While this is preaching to the choir, for many Catholics, this was a very meaningful event precisely because of the words Jesus spoke, "Take and eat, this is my body" (Mt 26:26). Which, I don't think that understanding was lost on the organizers who closed that scene by wheeling out Dionysus (naked blue dude) on a platter no less.

Part of me was sad, because I know what a sacrifice Jesus made for us that very next day and what that moment meant to him and his Apostles. Another part of me was offended, because I think this was the intent all along, to scandalize a sacred moment for the sake of controversy. But most of me was troubled.

I happen to believe that artist are like prophets among the people. They can use their art to make visible the invisible truth about subjects like love and sacrifice. For me, there in lies the trouble with this spectacle. Instead of understanding that the last supper between Jesus and his Apostles was about establishing a bloodless sacrifice, "take and eat, this is my body, this is my blood" he turned it into a feast for the excess of the flesh. Dionysus was no choir-boy!

The only good that can come out of this event is to witness to family and friends why this is wrong and why the sad attempt by Thomas Jolly misses the mark. The Olympics can do better!
Sapper Redux
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You realize this was a satire of The Feast of Dionysius and not The Last Supper, right? And furthermore, The Last Supper is a painting made some 1500 years after the fact, not an actual artifact of the event.
Martin Cash
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Sapper Redux said:

You realize this was a satire of The Feast of Dionysius and not The Last Supper, right? And furthermore, The Last Supper is a painting made some 1500 years after the fact, not an actual artifact of the event.
Baloney. Show me a depiction of Dionysius with everyone sitting on one side of a long table. That's their cover story, but is unquestionably a mocking of the painting and of Christianity. They admitted it.
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2
Sapper Redux
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It's a very common trope in Renaissance art. You think Leonardo was the only one to realize he needed a long dining table to fit everyone where the viewer could see?

jrico2727
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e weren't mocking Christ we were just celebrating a demon. Potato/Potatow
Sapper Redux
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Never lose that utter insufferability.
jrico2727
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Sapper Redux said:

Never lose that utter insufferability.

Ad hominem arguments is how you separate yourself as the true intellectual on this board
chap
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Sapper Redux said:

You realize this was a satire of The Feast of Dionysius and not The Last Supper, right? And furthermore, The Last Supper is a painting made some 1500 years after the fact, not an actual artifact of the event.


I can't believe it's 9:00 pm today and people are still saying this.

No. Just no.

The Paris 2024 Committee has already come out and said it was a parody of The Last Supper and issued apologies to the various churches they may have offended.

Actually, seeing who the poster is, I guess I can believe it.
Sapper Redux
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That's not what was said:
Quote:

The tableau brought to mind Leonardo da Vinci's "Last Supper," which depicts the moment when Jesus Christ declared that an apostle would betray him.

Jolly says that wasn't his intention. He saw the moment as a celebration of diversity, and the table on which Butch spun her tunes as a tribute to feasting and French gastronomy.


Jolly said in another interview,
Quote:

Jolly also said on French TV station BFMTV on Sunday, "The Last Supper" was "not my inspiration" for the segment, and he also spoke about the meaning of Dionysus.

"The idea was to have a pagan celebration connected to the gods of Olympus. You will never find in me a desire to mock and denigrate anyone," he said.
AJ02
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The fat woman in the middle pretty much confirmed it was a parody of the Last Supper.
AJ02
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Olympics spokesperson also said he took inspiration directly from the Last Supper.
RAB91
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As many others have said, they would never do this with Islam. DeSantis covers it well.



Maybe I missed it, but has Pope Francis said anything about it?
Sapper Redux
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The constant persecution complex is amazing. Islam has it, too, for the record. Are paintings not allowed to be parodied?
Sapper Redux
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A spokesman said this in one email. The guy who actually made the show said he didn't and there are plenty of variants of a feast of Dionysus in Renaissance art that look similar.
Silent For Too Long
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Jesus Sapper just admit you were wrong for once in your life.

It was obviously a parody of the last supper. Every single person watching that immediately made that connection. It's one of the canonical archetypes of Western Civilization Art.

Dude is lying to cover his ass.
AggieRain
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Silent For Too Long said:

Jesus Sapper just admit you were wrong for once in your life.

It was obviously a parody of the last supper. Every single person watching that immediately made that connection. It's one of the canonical archetypes of Western Civilization Art.

Dude is lying to cover his ass.
dermdoc
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Sapper Redux said:

The constant persecution complex is amazing. Islam has it, too, for the record. Are paintings not allowed to be parodied?
Sure paintings are allowed to be parodied. And we are allowed to voice our displeasure over the parody.

I am just sad for all the lost souls.
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kurt vonnegut
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I don't know whether the painting was a nod to an ancient God or a mocking of the Last Supper. If it was the latter, then I think that is in terrible taste. The Olympic ceremonies is hardly the place to mock a religious story that many of the participants hold sacred or important. If it was a jab at Christianity, then I hope the Olympic committee or the participating countries or someone makes them regret that decision. I can see the obvious parallels between the opening ceremony and the Last Supper, but I'm also not an expert in Renaissance art and Greek mythology, nor do I know anything about Thomas Jolly. I don't know the answer.

BUT, What is funny to me is that the Christians on this board can't even play the victim without using it as an excuse to condemn other religions as demonic or to patronize other views by associating them with 'lost souls' and the 'decline of Western Civilization."

I'm willing to grant that the opening ceremony may have been tasteless (or at least that they should have been far more clear about their intentions if wasn't a jab at Christianity). But, most of the Christians on this board can't go more than 2 posts on this board without mocking non Christians. I understand the context is WAY different, but it still makes it difficult for me to feel sorry for you.

TLDR: Many of the Christians here have precisely zero respect for other view points, but like to whine when other disrespect their views.
RAB91
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Sapper Redux said:

The constant persecution complex is amazing. Islam has it, too, for the record. Are paintings not allowed to be parodied?

Zobel
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TLDR: unwilling to criticize tasteless behavior without saying tu quoque.
RAB91
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I guess the opening ceremonies were just setting the stage for the two male boxers who are being allowed to compete against women.
tk111
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Sapper Redux said:

That's not what was said:
Quote:

The tableau brought to mind Leonardo da Vinci's "Last Supper," which depicts the moment when Jesus Christ declared that an apostle would betray him.

Jolly says that wasn't his intention. He saw the moment as a celebration of diversity, and the table on which Butch spun her tunes as a tribute to feasting and French gastronomy.


Jolly said in another interview,
Quote:

Jolly also said on French TV station BFMTV on Sunday, "The Last Supper" was "not my inspiration" for the segment, and he also spoke about the meaning of Dionysus.

"The idea was to have a pagan celebration connected to the gods of Olympus. You will never find in me a desire to mock and denigrate anyone," he said.

It seems you've never heard of "desperation damage control"
kurt vonnegut
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Zobel said:

TLDR: unwilling to criticize tasteless behavior without saying tu quoque.

I'm confused. . . . are you offering a criticism of my post or of the Christian posters or all of us?

If aimed at me, then I say 'Valid criticism, I accept it'. If only aimed at me, I wonder why the selective criticism. . . . or partium favor, if you prefer.

edit: For the record, I would have been happy to ignore this thread or to even join in the criticism of the opening ceremony if thats all it was.
PabloSerna
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Sapper Redux said:

You realize this was a satire of The Feast of Dionysius and not The Last Supper, right? And furthermore, The Last Supper is a painting made some 1500 years after the fact, not an actual artifact of the event.
I realize that there is some overlap there with the imagery. Even the main character playing Jesus was honest about this arrangement. Contrary to many people's assessment, artist tend to be very deliberate with their planning and execution. Every detail is painstakingly worked and reworked. That is why it is not lost on me that he merged the two feasts to make a bigger point about war and suffering. At least that is what the blue dude sung about.

I just think that it was done in poor taste.

ETA: I think the image you are referring to is, "The Feast of the Gods" by Jan van Bijfert, 1635. It has been written by other art historians that he took his inspiration from Da Vinici's "Last Supper" done prior to his work. Again, it is obvious to many what the reference was - I would bet more people are familiar with DaVinci's depiction than Bijfert's. That is how it was effective, by the fact that it took a famous painting, its subject and turned it on its head to mean something else. This only works when people recognize the symbolism.
General Jack D. Ripper
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I too ran into the smarter than thou text that it was a bacchanalian feast. I felt pretty crappy for a few hours that I had been duped by X influencers. Thankfully, the smarter than me acquaintance (Christian Orthodox) texted me a few days later with a screen shot from the head of the American Orthodox Church bashing the display.

There's always that person who wants to gas light you into thinking you saw or heard something wrong and your error was based on your ignorance. It's a sweet nectar when those folks end up looking like the moron.
Well…you sounded taller on radio.
barbacoa taco
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The reason I am pretty sure it was the Feast of Dionysus is twofold:

1) the weird smurf looking dude is clearly Dionysus



2) Olympics originated in ancient Greece. Dionysus is a figure from Greek mythology. Da Vinci was Italian and the games are in France. It only makes sense for it to be a nod to an ancient Greek figure.

Even if there was some allusion to the Last Supper... and maybe there was... the intense overreaction and frothing at the mouth by Christians has been so over the top ridiculous. You'd think the Olympic committee would have come out and said "death to all Christians" or something.

Also, the French are weird and like to push the envelope. That was evident throughout the whole opening ceremony.

If you are refusing to watch the Olympics, fine. But this isn't the horrible persecution that the American Right thinks it is. And it makes me chuckle hearing so many people (Exhibit A: F16 MAGA types) making fun of liberal snowflakes and safe spaces and then having an aneurysm over this.
Dad-O-Lot
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Sapper Redux said:

You realize this was a satire of The Feast of Dionysius and not The Last Supper, right? And furthermore, The Last Supper is a painting made some 1500 years after the fact, not an actual artifact of the event.
day 3 revisionist history.

The person at the center was highlighting herself the mirroring of da Vinci's painting before the controversy blew up.

I can certainly believe they were portraying the characters they say, but that does not preclude them from using those characters to mock The Last Supper.

No, it was an intentional mocking of Christianity.

Christians will be belittled by many for speaking out against it as being "triggered", however if Muslims had been mocked in such a manner, Paris would still be burning.
People of integrity expect to be believed, when they're not, they let time prove them right.
Zobel
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Sapper Redux
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Dad-O-Lot said:

Sapper Redux said:

You realize this was a satire of The Feast of Dionysius and not The Last Supper, right? And furthermore, The Last Supper is a painting made some 1500 years after the fact, not an actual artifact of the event.
day 3 revisionist history.

The person at the center was highlighting herself the mirroring of da Vinci's painting before the controversy blew up.

I can certainly believe they were portraying the characters they say, but that does not preclude them from using those characters to mock The Last Supper.

No, it was an intentional mocking of Christianity.

Christians will be belittled by many for speaking out against it as being "triggered", however if Muslims had been mocked in such a manner, Paris would still be burning.


Not everything is about you. And Jesus is second only to Muhammad in Islam. So by your logic this is offensive to Islam as well.
RAB91
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The usual suspect just can't help themselves. They know they're in a hole, but they just keep digging. Congrats?
kurt vonnegut
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I care less about the fight over whether this is the Last Supper of Dionysus. I think there are plenty of reasons to draw the comparison to the Last Supper, but I'm not going to pretend to know the motives of the designers of this skit. And I don't care enough to spend the hours needed to research the issue and the players.

Again, for this thread, I'm willing to grant that the French Olympic committee responsible was taking a jab at Christianity. And I'm happy to join you all and say that this is tasteless. At a minimum, I would expect them to have been intelligent enough to know the conclusions that people would inevitably draw from their performance. BUT - we have a choice in how we react. There are many ways we can react. I am going to outline two of those ways that we can react, and then I am interested to hear from everyone which of those reactions is better. Or which reaction is most becoming of a Christian, if your'd rather.

Reaction 1: "This portion of the Opening Ceremony appears to be referencing the Last Supper and not in way that we appreciate. It is in bad taste and entirely inappropriate for what these games are supposed to represent."

Reaction 2: "This portion of the Opening Ceremony appears to be referencing the Last Supper and not in way that we appreciate. These people celebrate demons and evil. These views and these people represent a decline in civilization. They are all lost souls and I pity them. Also, Muslims are way worse and more violent - if they were the ones being mocked, they would have burnt Paris to the ground."

I guess what I'm asking is. . . . Why can't we just criticize the performance without throwing shade and hatred at everyone involved and uninvolved?
wessimo
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Q: What did Jesus say at the last supper (other than what was recorded in the New Testament)?





A: OK, everyone, come to this side of the table for the picture!
tk111
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kurt vonnegut said:

I care less about the fight over whether this is the Last Supper of Dionysus. I think there are plenty of reasons to draw the comparison to the Last Supper, but I'm not going to pretend to know the motives of the designers of this skit. And I don't care enough to spend the hours needed to research the issue and the players.

Again, for this thread, I'm willing to grant that the French Olympic committee responsible was taking a jab at Christianity. And I'm happy to join you all and say that this is tasteless. At a minimum, I would expect them to have been intelligent enough to know the conclusions that people would inevitably draw from their performance. BUT - we have a choice in how we react. There are many ways we can react. I am going to outline two of those ways that we can react, and then I am interested to hear from everyone which of those reactions is better. Or which reaction is most becoming of a Christian, if your'd rather.

Reaction 1: "This portion of the Opening Ceremony appears to be referencing the Last Supper and not in way that we appreciate. It is in bad taste and entirely inappropriate for what these games are supposed to represent."

Reaction 2: "This portion of the Opening Ceremony appears to be referencing the Last Supper and not in way that we appreciate. These people celebrate demons and evil. These views and these people represent a decline in civilization. They are all lost souls and I pity them. Also, Muslims are way worse and more violent - if they were the ones being mocked, they would have burnt Paris to the ground."

I guess what I'm asking is. . . . Why can't we just criticize the performance without throwing shade and hatred at everyone involved and uninvolved?
I'm guessing your implication is that there is something wrong with reaction #2. I'm just having trouble finding it.

Guess I have to be the one to tell you - in reference to this and your earlier posts - criticizing pagan religions as demonic is exactly what the Bible does. God's people being "set apart" from the rest of the world is literally the narrative of the entire Bible.

A couple common projections that always get thrown around in these situations, and are demonstrated right here:
- claiming that calling out anything as wrong (explicit affronts to God, which is undeniable here) is "hatred"
- claiming that calling out these wrongs is somehow synonymous with saying we're being "persecuted" (which no one except the detractors here are claiming).

AGC
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kurt vonnegut said:

I care less about the fight over whether this is the Last Supper of Dionysus. I think there are plenty of reasons to draw the comparison to the Last Supper, but I'm not going to pretend to know the motives of the designers of this skit. And I don't care enough to spend the hours needed to research the issue and the players.

Again, for this thread, I'm willing to grant that the French Olympic committee responsible was taking a jab at Christianity. And I'm happy to join you all and say that this is tasteless. At a minimum, I would expect them to have been intelligent enough to know the conclusions that people would inevitably draw from their performance. BUT - we have a choice in how we react. There are many ways we can react. I am going to outline two of those ways that we can react, and then I am interested to hear from everyone which of those reactions is better. Or which reaction is most becoming of a Christian, if your'd rather.

Reaction 1: "This portion of the Opening Ceremony appears to be referencing the Last Supper and not in way that we appreciate. It is in bad taste and entirely inappropriate for what these games are supposed to represent."

Reaction 2: "This portion of the Opening Ceremony appears to be referencing the Last Supper and not in way that we appreciate. These people celebrate demons and evil. These views and these people represent a decline in civilization. They are all lost souls and I pity them. Also, Muslims are way worse and more violent - if they were the ones being mocked, they would have burnt Paris to the ground."

I guess what I'm asking is. . . . Why can't we just criticize the performance without throwing shade and hatred at everyone involved and uninvolved?


How is quoting people's own words 'throwing shade'? And how can you disaggregate the 'performance' from its context and intent? Doesn't that contradict the concept of art?
PabloSerna
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