Grew up Missouri Synod Lutheran. Alter boy. When I was 27 I had several miracles and these can't easily be explained. I have a PhD but my atheist F-I-L says they are coincidences. One is definitely not a coincidence so that is really the main reason. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I'm in Mensa and after 35 years I have no other explanation. It may seem weird but that's the main reason among others.
Why are you a Christian?
3,427 Views |
42 Replies |
Last: 1 mo ago by KingofHazor
I'm not in Mensa but I know Christ rose from the grave and is Lord.
CrackerJackAg said:
I'm not in Mensa but I know Christ rose from the grave and is Lord.
What does it mean to you to say you "know" these things?
BartInLA said:
Grew up Missouri Synod Lutheran. Alter boy. When I was 27 I had several miracles and these can't easily be explained. I have a PhD but my atheist F-I-L says they are coincidences. One is definitely not a coincidence so that is really the main reason. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I'm in Mensa and after 35 years I have no other explanation. It may seem weird but that's the main reason among others.
I too grew up Lutheran (ELCA tho). What are these miracles?
Indeed, what were the nature of these miracles?
I believe that public revelation, such as the miracles Jesus administered while he was here on earth, ended with the death of the last apostle. What we see now are private revelations for individuals and some small groups.
I did read recently, that Cabeza de Vaca, raised a man from death while he wandered through South Texas in the 1530's. Haven't read or heard of people being raised from the dead since.
I believe that public revelation, such as the miracles Jesus administered while he was here on earth, ended with the death of the last apostle. What we see now are private revelations for individuals and some small groups.
I did read recently, that Cabeza de Vaca, raised a man from death while he wandered through South Texas in the 1530's. Haven't read or heard of people being raised from the dead since.
Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
I'm not in Mensa but I know Christ rose from the grave and is Lord.
What does it mean to you to say you "know" these things?
***Quick unedited rambling answer warning***
This is something that I could get into a very long conversation in person. I'm not great at the Texags social media medium.
Short answer is that humans have always had a divine understanding. It's innate. We have always known from the very beginning that there were something greater than us. It's built into us.
Had you have never met your mother and you had no memories before the age of seven I'm fairly certain that you would still believe that you have a mother, despite having never seen her.
Without spending an hour, writing a summary, I can tell you that there is enough evidence pointing to the coming of Christ from both secular and non-secular sources that are too vast to be coincidental.
I don't believe it's an easy thing to get people to die for a lie. The disciples and apostles suffered greatly for their beliefs.
These beliefs are not just a story that they heard. They witnessed the events and then chose to die violent death's defending what it is that they saw. No riches to be gained. These were not demagogues, trying to create a political revolution.
We have four primary/contemporary sources that attest to the resurrection. We have many more sources that acknowledge Christ.
I don't think that you question that Homer wrote the Iliad & the Odyssey. We have more sources a testing to Christ & his resurrection then we do copies of the Odyssey.
Then there is the old scriptures, the Greek miracle, Alexander the Great. Lots of fun stuff.
The point being is that no one is ever going to be able to provide you with video evidence of the resurrection
Christ is not going to come to you and break it all down for you
A skeptical mind would say that the video was AI and that you were just dreaming if both of those things happened to them.
At a point, there's something inside of you along with prayer and understanding and research that leads you to the conclusion that you just "know".
ALSO I'M SAD YOU AREN'T THE REAL DAN CARLIN :-(
CrackerJackAg said:Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
I'm not in Mensa but I know Christ rose from the grave and is Lord.
What does it mean to you to say you "know" these things?
Quote:
***Quick unedited rambling answer warning***
This is something that I could get into a very long conversation in person. I'm not great at the Texags social media medium.
Short answer is that humans have always had a divine understanding. It's innate. We have always known from the very beginning that there were something greater than us. It's built into us.
Had you have never met your mother and you had no memories before the age of seven I'm fairly certain that you would still believe that you have a mother, despite having never seen her.
The need to know "why" is built into us. When we can't figure out "why", our species invents it. Why does lightning happen? Because Zeus is angry. Because Thor is angry. Because Indra is angry. Because Raijin is angry. Because God is angry. The same conclusion from people all over the planet. Not because we have divine understanding, but because there is a NEED to place intent on random events. Why did Hikaru's boat get struck by lightning and destroyed? If it is just a random thing, there's nothing we can do to prevent it. If it's due to an angry deity, we can try to prevent it by appeasing the deity with offerings, prayers, etc. So Hideki burns incense to honor Raijin. Then, when Hideki's boat doesn't get struck, he believes his entreaties to Raijin worked, therefore, Raijin is obviously real.
Quote:
Without spending an hour, writing a summary, I can tell you that there is enough evidence pointing to the coming of Christ from both secular and non-secular sources that are too vast to be coincidental.
I don't believe it's an easy thing to get people to die for a lie. The disciples and apostles suffered greatly for their beliefs.
These beliefs are not just a story that they heard. They witnessed the events and then chose to die violent death's defending what it is that they saw. No riches to be gained. These were not demagogues, trying to create a political revolution
People go to war for lies. People fight to the death over lies. People willingly die for lies ALL THE TIME.
Quote:
I don't think that you question that Homer wrote the Iliad & the Odyssey. We have more sources a testing to Christ & his resurrection then we do copies of the Odyssey.
Then there is the old scriptures, the Greek miracle, Alexander the Great. Lots of fun stuff.
The point being is that no one is ever going to be able to provide you with video evidence of the resurrection
Christ is not going to come to you and break it all down for you
A skeptical mind would say that the video was AI and that you were just dreaming if both of those things happened to them.
I have no idea if Homer wrote those works. But, I also am not told that Homer is God and I must obey him. I'm not told Homer hates gays and they should be persecuted. I'm not told that failing to believe in Homer will result in eternity in hell. So pointing out the Iliad may be mistakenly attributed to Homer doesn't equal evidence of Christianity as a fundamental truth.
Quote:
At a point, there's something inside of you along with prayer and understanding and research that leads you to the conclusion that you just "know".
But one doesn't "know". One believes. The reason one believes, typically, is because it's been taught since childhood.
A Hindu is raised to believe Vishnu to be divine. So, Hindus believe Vishnu to be divine. To most Christians, this belief is seen as laughable. But in reality, the same mechanism supports Christian belief.
TPS_Report said:CrackerJackAg said:Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
I'm not in Mensa but I know Christ rose from the grave and is Lord.
What does it mean to you to say you "know" these things?Quote:
***Quick unedited rambling answer warning***
This is something that I could get into a very long conversation in person. I'm not great at the Texags social media medium.
Short answer is that humans have always had a divine understanding. It's innate. We have always known from the very beginning that there were something greater than us. It's built into us.
Had you have never met your mother and you had no memories before the age of seven I'm fairly certain that you would still believe that you have a mother, despite having never seen her.
The need to know "why" is built into us. When we can't figure out "why", our species invents it. Why does lightning happen? Because Zeus is angry. Because Thor is angry. Because Indra is angry. Because Raijin is angry. Because God is angry. The same conclusion from people all over the planet. Not because we have divine understanding, but because there is a NEED to place intent on random events. Why did Hikaru's boat get struck by lightning and destroyed? If it is just a random thing, there's nothing we can do to prevent it. If it's due to an angry deity, we can try to prevent it by appeasing the deity with offerings, prayers, etc. So Hideki burns incense to honor Raijin. Then, when Hideki's boat doesn't get struck, he believes his entreaties to Raijin worked, therefore, Raijin is obviously real.Quote:
Without spending an hour, writing a summary, I can tell you that there is enough evidence pointing to the coming of Christ from both secular and non-secular sources that are too vast to be coincidental.
I don't believe it's an easy thing to get people to die for a lie. The disciples and apostles suffered greatly for their beliefs.
These beliefs are not just a story that they heard. They witnessed the events and then chose to die violent death's defending what it is that they saw. No riches to be gained. These were not demagogues, trying to create a political revolution
People go to war for lies. People fight to the death over lies. People willingly die for lies ALL THE TIME.Quote:
I don't think that you question that Homer wrote the Iliad & the Odyssey. We have more sources a testing to Christ & his resurrection then we do copies of the Odyssey.
Then there is the old scriptures, the Greek miracle, Alexander the Great. Lots of fun stuff.
The point being is that no one is ever going to be able to provide you with video evidence of the resurrection
Christ is not going to come to you and break it all down for you
A skeptical mind would say that the video was AI and that you were just dreaming if both of those things happened to them.
I have no idea if Homer wrote those works. But, I also am not told that Homer is God and I must obey him. I'm not told Homer hates gays and they should be persecuted. I'm not told that failing to believe in Homer will result in eternity in hell. So pointing out the Iliad may be mistakenly attributed to Homer doesn't equal evidence of Christianity as a fundamental truth.Quote:
At a point, there's something inside of you along with prayer and understanding and research that leads you to the conclusion that you just "know".
But one doesn't "know". One believes. The reason one believes, typically, is because it's been taught since childhood.
A Hindu is raised to believe Vishnu to be divine. So, Hindus believe Vishnu to be divine. To most Christians, this belief is seen as laughable. But in reality, the same mechanism supports Christian belief.
Honestly, I can tell that your responses were the same regardless of what you read in my post or what I could've written in my post. It's obvious from your replies that you're just caught into a loop of belief that you're not going to be willing to come off of. There's a bit of cynicism and anger in your post. It's OK to be skeptical but once you become cynical, you're no longer a functioning thinker.
When I spoke about people dying for things that they directly saw and experienced, you argued that "people go to war for lies". This was a terrible rebuttal as it probably made my point more than it did yours.
Arguing with somebody in your mental state is unhealthy as it will just further entrench you and your cynicism, and you will again to believe that you are justified in your thinking as you continually repeat the "logic" cycle that you are on and harden your thoughts.
I encourage you to keep an open mind and to remain skeptical without being a cynic. Praying for you on your journey.
CrackerJackAg said:TPS_Report said:CrackerJackAg said:Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
I'm not in Mensa but I know Christ rose from the grave and is Lord.
What does it mean to you to say you "know" these things?Quote:
***Quick unedited rambling answer warning***
This is something that I could get into a very long conversation in person. I'm not great at the Texags social media medium.
Short answer is that humans have always had a divine understanding. It's innate. We have always known from the very beginning that there were something greater than us. It's built into us.
Had you have never met your mother and you had no memories before the age of seven I'm fairly certain that you would still believe that you have a mother, despite having never seen her.
The need to know "why" is built into us. When we can't figure out "why", our species invents it. Why does lightning happen? Because Zeus is angry. Because Thor is angry. Because Indra is angry. Because Raijin is angry. Because God is angry. The same conclusion from people all over the planet. Not because we have divine understanding, but because there is a NEED to place intent on random events. Why did Hikaru's boat get struck by lightning and destroyed? If it is just a random thing, there's nothing we can do to prevent it. If it's due to an angry deity, we can try to prevent it by appeasing the deity with offerings, prayers, etc. So Hideki burns incense to honor Raijin. Then, when Hideki's boat doesn't get struck, he believes his entreaties to Raijin worked, therefore, Raijin is obviously real.Quote:
Without spending an hour, writing a summary, I can tell you that there is enough evidence pointing to the coming of Christ from both secular and non-secular sources that are too vast to be coincidental.
I don't believe it's an easy thing to get people to die for a lie. The disciples and apostles suffered greatly for their beliefs.
These beliefs are not just a story that they heard. They witnessed the events and then chose to die violent death's defending what it is that they saw. No riches to be gained. These were not demagogues, trying to create a political revolution
People go to war for lies. People fight to the death over lies. People willingly die for lies ALL THE TIME.Quote:
I don't think that you question that Homer wrote the Iliad & the Odyssey. We have more sources a testing to Christ & his resurrection then we do copies of the Odyssey.
Then there is the old scriptures, the Greek miracle, Alexander the Great. Lots of fun stuff.
The point being is that no one is ever going to be able to provide you with video evidence of the resurrection
Christ is not going to come to you and break it all down for you
A skeptical mind would say that the video was AI and that you were just dreaming if both of those things happened to them.
I have no idea if Homer wrote those works. But, I also am not told that Homer is God and I must obey him. I'm not told Homer hates gays and they should be persecuted. I'm not told that failing to believe in Homer will result in eternity in hell. So pointing out the Iliad may be mistakenly attributed to Homer doesn't equal evidence of Christianity as a fundamental truth.Quote:
At a point, there's something inside of you along with prayer and understanding and research that leads you to the conclusion that you just "know".
But one doesn't "know". One believes. The reason one believes, typically, is because it's been taught since childhood.
A Hindu is raised to believe Vishnu to be divine. So, Hindus believe Vishnu to be divine. To most Christians, this belief is seen as laughable. But in reality, the same mechanism supports Christian belief.
Honestly, I can tell that your responses were the same regardless of what you read in my post or what I could've written in my post. It's obvious from your replies that you're just caught into a loop of belief that you're not going to be willing to come off of. There's a bit of cynicism and anger in your post. It's OK to be skeptical but once you become cynical, you're no longer a functioning thinker.
When I spoke about people dying for things that they directly saw and experienced, you argued that "people go to war for lies". This was a terrible rebuttal as it probably made my point more than it did yours.
Arguing with somebody in your mental state is unhealthy as it will just further entrench you and your cynicism, and you will again to believe that you are justified in your thinking as you continually repeat the "logic" cycle that you are on and harden your thoughts.
I encourage you to keep an open mind and to remain skeptical without being a cynic. Praying for you on your journey.
I believe it's possible for Jesus to have existed and be the Son of God. Do you believe it possible that Jesus didn't exist or wasn't the Son of God?
Why am I Christian? Because...
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man; And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried. And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father. And He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets;
And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the Life of the world to come.
Amen.
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man; And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried. And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father. And He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets;
And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the Life of the world to come.
Amen.
PacifistAg said:
Why am I Christian? Because...
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man; And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried. And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father. And He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets;
And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the Life of the world to come.
Amen.
Agree and amen.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
My reason(s):
His spoken truth - John 14:6
His demonstrated proof - Luke 23:39-43
His spoken truth - John 14:6
His demonstrated proof - Luke 23:39-43
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
“To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he's doing is good” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
“To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he's doing is good” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
Joined:
Dec 2, 1999
Posts:
13,017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
In Hoc Signo Vinces
When I grew up I really struggled with what my identity is. Not in the way people do now with transgenderism or homosexuality, I just didn't know who I was or what I was about. My family didn't really go to church much, I knew a little of God but not much.
When I came to Texas A&M I had a terrible semester where I was struggling to make friends, still didn't really know who I was. Thus when I got invited to Breakaway and church I was open to it.
I did the ol' fashion prayer to accept God in my life, and He came. He changed my life, I got an identity, I got a purpose, I got confidence in myself.
Every good thing in my life I have now stems from that moment. My wife, my kids, my job.
I still have those same struggles, I'm prone to feeling like an outsider and shutting down from those around me but God is gracious and always pulls me back in.
In summary, I believe because God changed me. He changed my perspective and gave me hope. Since then I have devoured apologetics, theology, etc. But it still comes down to the simple Gospel.
When I came to Texas A&M I had a terrible semester where I was struggling to make friends, still didn't really know who I was. Thus when I got invited to Breakaway and church I was open to it.
I did the ol' fashion prayer to accept God in my life, and He came. He changed my life, I got an identity, I got a purpose, I got confidence in myself.
Every good thing in my life I have now stems from that moment. My wife, my kids, my job.
I still have those same struggles, I'm prone to feeling like an outsider and shutting down from those around me but God is gracious and always pulls me back in.
In summary, I believe because God changed me. He changed my perspective and gave me hope. Since then I have devoured apologetics, theology, etc. But it still comes down to the simple Gospel.
I think there are many many miracles that we just don't recognize but having said that, let me list three miracles.
1. My first serious girlfriend of four years broke up with me when I was about 25. I was completely devastated. I was walking around a large block and intensely praying to God and I asked God if she was the one for me. Now mind you, she had broken up with me three weeks earlier. I was absolutely stunned that I felt the presence of God in a way I have never felt before. Instantaneously came the thought that no she is not the one for you. Well, I certainly didn't like that answer. So I immediately pretended that I didn't hear His response that I asked very seriously the question again. Immediately, I got the same answer, no she's not for you, but what was added to that is that I would fly like an eagle and there would be an eagle mate for me and that she wasn't that mate. I thought for a long time that God was calling her sort of a turkey, but I realize that God was just saying that she wasn't MY Eagle. Well, there was some hope in that but I really want this woman to be my Eagle as she was my first real girlfriend. So I pretended not to hear the second answer and I asked a third time.
Guess what happened?
I immediately felt God's presence leave. My interpretation is that He knew that I was shocked at feeling His intense presence for the first time in my life and that the answer was hard to take. On the second time He chose to give me a little more information. On the third time, He was just letting me know that I was being rebellious and the conversation was over.
A couple of months later, I moved into a new house all alone and while I had a small house warming party the doorbell rang at 10 PM and it was my ex-girlfriend crying and wanting to get back together. I took her back and the next seven months were very very rocky until she finally split for good.
2. The next miracle could sound like a coincidence. Many years later, my wife was in a grocery store and when she came out, she just happened to look carefully at the coins. Now there are very few wheat pennies in circulation, you know those before 1958. It was my birthday. The coin had a date of 1927. How could such an old coin be in circulation? On my birthday. My father was deceased and guess what year he was born?
1927
3. Perhaps the greatest miracle that I was aware of happened when I was 28. I was making very good grades getting my MBA and working as an engineer and to try to make the story shorter, I climbed up on a one and a half story with a ladder, but getting down meant dropping 18 inches to the first rung and I knew that spelled trouble. So I went to the other side of the roof where the drop off was only one story and I edged my way closer and closer to the gutter figuring I could just land like a cat as I had done as a teenager. Well, apparently, I didn't realize that I was putting weight on the gutter and I fell down and landed on my side, making a great impression in the grass with my head. Just inches from the concrete patio. I went to the master bathroom and pulled off my shirt, expecting to see ribs sticking out, but there was nothing. Out of the corner of my eye I could see two adults and a child running up to my door, ringing it. An eight-year-old girl next-door has seen me fall and her parents said that their daughter has seen a man fall off the roof and I said yeah it's me. Now the next day, I was very very sore, but I never went to the doctor. I was on the roof to put up an antenna and it was sort of muddy, so I just stuck the antenna in the backyard. It looked terrible, but I was able to catch a Radio Station clearly from Dallas called "praise in the night" and I said the salvation prayer.
Now a few weeks went past and I noticed that I didn't have any desire whatsoever to drink. I had a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, but I was very high functioning, but the truth is that after the first drink, I really couldn't stop before I was pretty darn buzzed. Many times blackout drunk. Nobody thought I was an alcoholic, but I was - I had the allergy. The desire to drink anything with alcohol was about as attractive as drinking a bottle of bleach. 33 1/2 years of not wanting or drinking one drop. Explain that to me. I have a PhD now in psychology and I could think long, deep and hard and come up with a theory, but I'm not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth. That was a gift from God. It happened in a nano second. That was a miracle and that's my final answer.
Oh and where did I get my PhD? Same school as Dr Phil and my wife. We are Eagles (although of course, I always identify as a Texas Aggie engineer). UNT Eagles and I didn't go there for that reason.
1. My first serious girlfriend of four years broke up with me when I was about 25. I was completely devastated. I was walking around a large block and intensely praying to God and I asked God if she was the one for me. Now mind you, she had broken up with me three weeks earlier. I was absolutely stunned that I felt the presence of God in a way I have never felt before. Instantaneously came the thought that no she is not the one for you. Well, I certainly didn't like that answer. So I immediately pretended that I didn't hear His response that I asked very seriously the question again. Immediately, I got the same answer, no she's not for you, but what was added to that is that I would fly like an eagle and there would be an eagle mate for me and that she wasn't that mate. I thought for a long time that God was calling her sort of a turkey, but I realize that God was just saying that she wasn't MY Eagle. Well, there was some hope in that but I really want this woman to be my Eagle as she was my first real girlfriend. So I pretended not to hear the second answer and I asked a third time.
Guess what happened?
I immediately felt God's presence leave. My interpretation is that He knew that I was shocked at feeling His intense presence for the first time in my life and that the answer was hard to take. On the second time He chose to give me a little more information. On the third time, He was just letting me know that I was being rebellious and the conversation was over.
A couple of months later, I moved into a new house all alone and while I had a small house warming party the doorbell rang at 10 PM and it was my ex-girlfriend crying and wanting to get back together. I took her back and the next seven months were very very rocky until she finally split for good.
2. The next miracle could sound like a coincidence. Many years later, my wife was in a grocery store and when she came out, she just happened to look carefully at the coins. Now there are very few wheat pennies in circulation, you know those before 1958. It was my birthday. The coin had a date of 1927. How could such an old coin be in circulation? On my birthday. My father was deceased and guess what year he was born?
1927
3. Perhaps the greatest miracle that I was aware of happened when I was 28. I was making very good grades getting my MBA and working as an engineer and to try to make the story shorter, I climbed up on a one and a half story with a ladder, but getting down meant dropping 18 inches to the first rung and I knew that spelled trouble. So I went to the other side of the roof where the drop off was only one story and I edged my way closer and closer to the gutter figuring I could just land like a cat as I had done as a teenager. Well, apparently, I didn't realize that I was putting weight on the gutter and I fell down and landed on my side, making a great impression in the grass with my head. Just inches from the concrete patio. I went to the master bathroom and pulled off my shirt, expecting to see ribs sticking out, but there was nothing. Out of the corner of my eye I could see two adults and a child running up to my door, ringing it. An eight-year-old girl next-door has seen me fall and her parents said that their daughter has seen a man fall off the roof and I said yeah it's me. Now the next day, I was very very sore, but I never went to the doctor. I was on the roof to put up an antenna and it was sort of muddy, so I just stuck the antenna in the backyard. It looked terrible, but I was able to catch a Radio Station clearly from Dallas called "praise in the night" and I said the salvation prayer.
Now a few weeks went past and I noticed that I didn't have any desire whatsoever to drink. I had a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, but I was very high functioning, but the truth is that after the first drink, I really couldn't stop before I was pretty darn buzzed. Many times blackout drunk. Nobody thought I was an alcoholic, but I was - I had the allergy. The desire to drink anything with alcohol was about as attractive as drinking a bottle of bleach. 33 1/2 years of not wanting or drinking one drop. Explain that to me. I have a PhD now in psychology and I could think long, deep and hard and come up with a theory, but I'm not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth. That was a gift from God. It happened in a nano second. That was a miracle and that's my final answer.
Oh and where did I get my PhD? Same school as Dr Phil and my wife. We are Eagles (although of course, I always identify as a Texas Aggie engineer). UNT Eagles and I didn't go there for that reason.
Great testimony.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Love it brother, thank you for sharing.
BartInLA said:
I think there are many many miracles that we just don't recognize but having said that, let me list three miracles.
1. My first serious girlfriend of four years broke up with me when I was about 25. I was completely devastated. I was walking around a large block and intensely praying to God and I asked God if she was the one for me. Now mind you, she had broken up with me three weeks earlier. I was absolutely stunned that I felt the presence of God in a way I have never felt before. Instantaneously came the thought that no she is not the one for you. Well, I certainly didn't like that answer. So I immediately pretended that I didn't hear His response that I asked very seriously the question again. Immediately, I got the same answer, no she's not for you, but what was added to that is that I would fly like an eagle and there would be an eagle mate for me and that she wasn't that mate. I thought for a long time that God was calling her sort of a turkey, but I realize that God was just saying that she wasn't MY Eagle. Well, there was some hope in that but I really want this woman to be my Eagle as she was my first real girlfriend. So I pretended not to hear the second answer and I asked a third time.
Guess what happened?
I immediately felt God's presence leave. My interpretation is that He knew that I was shocked at feeling His intense presence for the first time in my life and that the answer was hard to take. On the second time He chose to give me a little more information. On the third time, He was just letting me know that I was being rebellious and the conversation was over.
A couple of months later, I moved into a new house all alone and while I had a small house warming party the doorbell rang at 10 PM and it was my ex-girlfriend crying and wanting to get back together. I took her back and the next seven months were very very rocky until she finally split for good.
2. The next miracle could sound like a coincidence. Many years later, my wife was in a grocery store and when she came out, she just happened to look carefully at the coins. Now there are very few wheat pennies in circulation, you know those before 1958. It was my birthday. The coin had a date of 1927. How could such an old coin be in circulation? On my birthday. My father was deceased and guess what year he was born?
1927
3. Perhaps the greatest miracle that I was aware of happened when I was 28. I was making very good grades getting my MBA and working as an engineer and to try to make the story shorter, I climbed up on a one and a half story with a ladder, but getting down meant dropping 18 inches to the first rung and I knew that spelled trouble. So I went to the other side of the roof where the drop off was only one story and I edged my way closer and closer to the gutter figuring I could just land like a cat as I had done as a teenager. Well, apparently, I didn't realize that I was putting weight on the gutter and I fell down and landed on my side, making a great impression in the grass with my head. Just inches from the concrete patio. I went to the master bathroom and pulled off my shirt, expecting to see ribs sticking out, but there was nothing. Out of the corner of my eye I could see two adults and a child running up to my door, ringing it. An eight-year-old girl next-door has seen me fall and her parents said that their daughter has seen a man fall off the roof and I said yeah it's me. Now the next day, I was very very sore, but I never went to the doctor. I was on the roof to put up an antenna and it was sort of muddy, so I just stuck the antenna in the backyard. It looked terrible, but I was able to catch a Radio Station clearly from Dallas called "praise in the night" and I said the salvation prayer.
Now a few weeks went past and I noticed that I didn't have any desire whatsoever to drink. I had a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, but I was very high functioning, but the truth is that after the first drink, I really couldn't stop before I was pretty darn buzzed. Many times blackout drunk. Nobody thought I was an alcoholic, but I was - I had the allergy. The desire to drink anything with alcohol was about as attractive as drinking a bottle of bleach. 33 1/2 years of not wanting or drinking one drop. Explain that to me. I have a PhD now in psychology and I could think long, deep and hard and come up with a theory, but I'm not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth. That was a gift from God. It happened in a nano second. That was a miracle and that's my final answer.
Oh and where did I get my PhD? Same school as Dr Phil and my wife. We are Eagles (although of course, I always identify as a Texas Aggie engineer). UNT Eagles and I didn't go there for that reason.
Thank you for responding. As I don't believe in miracles to begin with, it shouldn't be surprising that I don't consider the events you've described to be miraculous. It seems to me all of this can be explained as either coincidence or an example of the "God of the Gaps" phenomenon.
I believe I spent more time and energy trying to force my non-belief of God/the soul than I tried to for my belief in these things. I tried Buddhism because it made a lot of sense on so many issues relating to the mind and the universe. But I could never get over that soul/God hump.
The last few months and the incidents the last few weeks has caused me to return to my faith. I still cherish the wisdom of the Buddha and I will embrace most of his teachings, but my soul belongs to Christ.
The last few months and the incidents the last few weeks has caused me to return to my faith. I still cherish the wisdom of the Buddha and I will embrace most of his teachings, but my soul belongs to Christ.
I will no longer discuss politics with you. I reject your premises and world view. I am finished trying to compromise with you.
Agree.
And because I'm Calvinist, I know God elected me, just as he elected you.
Peace be with you!
And because I'm Calvinist, I know God elected me, just as he elected you.
Peace be with you!
I don't know that I can call myself a Christian as I'm on the fence about Jesus being the son of god, in the sense most Christian's conceptualize it, in spite of being brought up Baptist.
I fell out with the idea of any god, Christian or otherwise, at A&M and have only just recently entertained the idea again. I heard someone tell me about near death experiences last year and I've devoured books on the subject since then.
I suspect many of the NDE accounts you find on Amazon are a grift/money grab. However, there are quite a few verifiable reports of people being clinically brain dead, and coming back, and the experiences are too similar for me to completely discount. They also describe people having a soul, being one with a creator, and ALL claim our purpose here on earth as being to learn how to love each other better so that we may become closer to the creator.
It sounds awfully similar to Christianity… but I could draw parallels to Buddhism and other religions as well.
TLDR: I'm not completely sold that simply believing that Jesus is God is the way. However, I think studying the bible and trying to incorporate his teachings into your life is as good of a strategy as any to live a fulfilling life.
I fell out with the idea of any god, Christian or otherwise, at A&M and have only just recently entertained the idea again. I heard someone tell me about near death experiences last year and I've devoured books on the subject since then.
I suspect many of the NDE accounts you find on Amazon are a grift/money grab. However, there are quite a few verifiable reports of people being clinically brain dead, and coming back, and the experiences are too similar for me to completely discount. They also describe people having a soul, being one with a creator, and ALL claim our purpose here on earth as being to learn how to love each other better so that we may become closer to the creator.
It sounds awfully similar to Christianity… but I could draw parallels to Buddhism and other religions as well.
TLDR: I'm not completely sold that simply believing that Jesus is God is the way. However, I think studying the bible and trying to incorporate his teachings into your life is as good of a strategy as any to live a fulfilling life.
“There is no red.
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”
“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”
“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
TPS_Report said:CrackerJackAg said:Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
I'm not in Mensa but I know Christ rose from the grave and is Lord.
What does it mean to you to say you "know" these things?Quote:
***Quick unedited rambling answer warning***
This is something that I could get into a very long conversation in person. I'm not great at the Texags social media medium.
Short answer is that humans have always had a divine understanding. It's innate. We have always known from the very beginning that there were something greater than us. It's built into us.
Had you have never met your mother and you had no memories before the age of seven I'm fairly certain that you would still believe that you have a mother, despite having never seen her.
The need to know "why" is built into us. When we can't figure out "why", our species invents it. Why does lightning happen? Because Zeus is angry. Because Thor is angry. Because Indra is angry. Because Raijin is angry. Because God is angry. The same conclusion from people all over the planet. Not because we have divine understanding, but because there is a NEED to place intent on random events. Why did Hikaru's boat get struck by lightning and destroyed? If it is just a random thing, there's nothing we can do to prevent it. If it's due to an angry deity, we can try to prevent it by appeasing the deity with offerings, prayers, etc. So Hideki burns incense to honor Raijin. Then, when Hideki's boat doesn't get struck, he believes his entreaties to Raijin worked, therefore, Raijin is obviously real.Quote:
Without spending an hour, writing a summary, I can tell you that there is enough evidence pointing to the coming of Christ from both secular and non-secular sources that are too vast to be coincidental.
I don't believe it's an easy thing to get people to die for a lie. The disciples and apostles suffered greatly for their beliefs.
These beliefs are not just a story that they heard. They witnessed the events and then chose to die violent death's defending what it is that they saw. No riches to be gained. These were not demagogues, trying to create a political revolution
People go to war for lies. People fight to the death over lies. People willingly die for lies ALL THE TIME.Quote:
I don't think that you question that Homer wrote the Iliad & the Odyssey. We have more sources a testing to Christ & his resurrection then we do copies of the Odyssey.
Then there is the old scriptures, the Greek miracle, Alexander the Great. Lots of fun stuff.
The point being is that no one is ever going to be able to provide you with video evidence of the resurrection
Christ is not going to come to you and break it all down for you
A skeptical mind would say that the video was AI and that you were just dreaming if both of those things happened to them.
I have no idea if Homer wrote those works. But, I also am not told that Homer is God and I must obey him. I'm not told Homer hates gays and they should be persecuted. I'm not told that failing to believe in Homer will result in eternity in hell. So pointing out the Iliad may be mistakenly attributed to Homer doesn't equal evidence of Christianity as a fundamental truth.Quote:
At a point, there's something inside of you along with prayer and understanding and research that leads you to the conclusion that you just "know".
But one doesn't "know". One believes. The reason one believes, typically, is because it's been taught since childhood.
A Hindu is raised to believe Vishnu to be divine. So, Hindus believe Vishnu to be divine. To most Christians, this belief is seen as laughable. But in reality, the same mechanism supports Christian belief.
People don't go to war for lies. They go to war because they were lied to they go to war believing in something good they die because they believe in something good
They're not going because they believe the lie is good they go believing the lie that is told them to be good
So you're mixing the point
So when early Christians died for their belief in Christianity, they're not dying so they can continue a lie. They're dying because it's not a lie and they'd rather stay true to their faith, dying for it than staying alive and believing a lie and living their life in a lie
You might like this book.
https://www.amazon.com/Self-Does-Not-Die-Experiences/dp/B0CGKK5KFD
Given the sensational topic, it's a surprisingly dry read. That's because they are not interested in the "I saw granny" heartwarming stories, but limit examples only to those that show an ability to view or hear things from outside one's physical body. To the naturalist, this is impossible, because we are nothing more than a clump of well organized atoms. The examples are not repeatable, but neither is archeology, and we consider archeology a reputable science. And just like archeology, with enough corroborating anecdotal evidence the existence of a "thing" becomes harder to deny. What is this thing? Well, religions calls it the soul that is capable of experiences without a physical body. Are any of the religions correctly describing this phenomena? Maybe not. But, I'd give Christianity the nod for being the mostly likely correct.
https://www.amazon.com/Self-Does-Not-Die-Experiences/dp/B0CGKK5KFD
Given the sensational topic, it's a surprisingly dry read. That's because they are not interested in the "I saw granny" heartwarming stories, but limit examples only to those that show an ability to view or hear things from outside one's physical body. To the naturalist, this is impossible, because we are nothing more than a clump of well organized atoms. The examples are not repeatable, but neither is archeology, and we consider archeology a reputable science. And just like archeology, with enough corroborating anecdotal evidence the existence of a "thing" becomes harder to deny. What is this thing? Well, religions calls it the soul that is capable of experiences without a physical body. Are any of the religions correctly describing this phenomena? Maybe not. But, I'd give Christianity the nod for being the mostly likely correct.
diamondag said:TPS_Report said:CrackerJackAg said:Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
People go to war for lies. People fight to the death over lies. People willingly die for lies ALL THE TIME.
People don't go to war for lies. They go to war because they were lied to they go to war believing in something good they die because they believe in something good
They're not going because they believe the lie is good they go believing the lie that is told them to be good
So you're mixing the point
So when early Christians died for their belief in Christianity, they're not dying so they can continue a lie. They're dying because it's not a lie and they'd rather stay true to their faith, dying for it than staying alive and believing a lie and living their life in a lie
I'm not saying people go to war because they like lies or they want to defend the concept of lying. I'm saying people are told lies and they believe them so strongly, that they are willing to go to war. Of course the individual who was lied to doesn't see that it was a lie, they believe it to be the truth.
I don't believe 72 virgins await any Muslim who uses a suicide vest to blow up himself and a group of Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. I see the 72 virgins bit as a lie. The Muslim zealot sees it as the truth and is willing to die for it. Is it possible that it's true? I suppose so. It can't be 100% ruled out given our current knowledge, but the likelihood that it's true seems super remote. So the Muslim zealot is dying for a lie in my view and dying for the truth in his.
The early Christian was dying for believing that Jesus is God/Messiah/etc. Is it possible that Jesus as God/Messiah/etc. is true? I suppose so. It can't be 100% ruled out given our current knowledge, but the likelihood that it's true seems super remote. So the Christian is dying for a lie in my view and dying for the truth in his.
So no, I'm not mixing the point. The point is a person will believe a lie so thoroughly that they are willing to die for it.
Ordered, thanks for the rec.
“There is no red.
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”
“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”
“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
My near-death experience occurred on November 8, 2003.
Oklahoma demolished Texas A&M 77-0. The Sooners scored all 77 points in the first three quarters and the Aggies never crossed midfield.
Edit: Technically we didn't lose the game we just ran out of time. I'm thankful that we ran out of time.
Oklahoma demolished Texas A&M 77-0. The Sooners scored all 77 points in the first three quarters and the Aggies never crossed midfield.
Edit: Technically we didn't lose the game we just ran out of time. I'm thankful that we ran out of time.
TPS_Report said:diamondag said:TPS_Report said:CrackerJackAg said:Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
People go to war for lies. People fight to the death over lies. People willingly die for lies ALL THE TIME.
People don't go to war for lies. They go to war because they were lied to they go to war believing in something good they die because they believe in something good
They're not going because they believe the lie is good they go believing the lie that is told them to be good
So you're mixing the point
So when early Christians died for their belief in Christianity, they're not dying so they can continue a lie. They're dying because it's not a lie and they'd rather stay true to their faith, dying for it than staying alive and believing a lie and living their life in a lie
I'm not saying people go to war because they like lies or they want to defend the concept of lying. I'm saying people are told lies and they believe them so strongly, that they are willing to go to war. Of course the individual who was lied to doesn't see that it was a lie, they believe it to be the truth.
I don't believe 72 virgins await any Muslim who uses a suicide vest to blow up himself and a group of Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. I see the 72 virgins bit as a lie. The Muslim zealot sees it as the truth and is willing to die for it. Is it possible that it's true? I suppose so. It can't be 100% ruled out given our current knowledge, but the likelihood that it's true seems super remote. So the Muslim zealot is dying for a lie in my view and dying for the truth in his.
The early Christian was dying for believing that Jesus is God/Messiah/etc. Is it possible that Jesus as God/Messiah/etc. is true? I suppose so. It can't be 100% ruled out given our current knowledge, but the likelihood that it's true seems super remote. So the Christian is dying for a lie in my view and dying for the truth in his.
So no, I'm not mixing the point. The point is a person will believe a lie so thoroughly that they are willing to die for it.
Thanks for the clarification
So the issue is. Are Christian's believing a lie
Did early Christian's believe a lie
Now I believe the argument stated earlier above on this thread, was arguing that there's some merit to the teachings that these early Christians (specificallythe apostles.) taught because they would not die a torturous death just because they were gonna tell a lie
The stories hold some credibility because they held on to their truth that they state they firsthand witnessed
Now, if a modern person today were to die, for that hearsay story told by the apostles and believed it to be true, but did not have firsthand knowledge then that would be correct in your argument that people die for a lie
But the apostles didn't die for a lie that they heard, they died, holding onto their truth, that they witnessed which gives their story credibility because if they were actually lying, they might break and they didn't
So therefore,when a person who says he saw a resurrected man died for his statement, that he says he saw first hand,
That holds some credibility
However, I'm not asking a non-Christian to believe the stories and teachings taught by anybody just because.
I would ask, and I do ask people who question the Christian faith to simply do their own research by simply Picking up a Bible and to ask God to reveal himself if He does exist.
you'll be surprised how many times I've told that to a nonbeliever and when they do ask God to reveal themselves, if God does exist,, I've been told by these friends of mine people who were atheist thatthey start to have their questions answered. In my experience, they come to Christ. They kinda start having their question answered in ways that I could not convince them it to be true. I've also have friends who atheist who never ask.
But I've never had one. Tell me that he asked, and he did not start to understand or hear the question answered.
When a person does ask God to reveal himself because that person truly want to know the answer if God does or does not exist, I have found that that person will get an answer and either that person will either come out with an answer that that person will either believe God does or doesn't existif that person ass the question with sincerity
I hope this helps clarify my point Of course we don't have to agree but I do hope you'll ask the question sincerely to God to reveal himself to you if you truly want to know the answer
There is nothing I can do nor any person can do to prove to you only God can do that for you if you ask
Sorry to preach there a bit just didn't want to miss the chance that you might be interested in knowing exactly why I believe and how it happened for me and others I know who now believe
TPS_Report said:CrackerJackAg said:Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
I'm not in Mensa but I know Christ rose from the grave and is Lord.
What does it mean to you to say you "know" these things?Quote:
***Quick unedited rambling answer warning***
This is something that I could get into a very long conversation in person. I'm not great at the Texags social media medium.
Short answer is that humans have always had a divine understanding. It's innate. We have always known from the very beginning that there were something greater than us. It's built into us.
Had you have never met your mother and you had no memories before the age of seven I'm fairly certain that you would still believe that you have a mother, despite having never seen her.
The need to know "why" is built into us. When we can't figure out "why", our species invents it. Why does lightning happen? Because Zeus is angry. Because Thor is angry. Because Indra is angry. Because Raijin is angry. Because God is angry. The same conclusion from people all over the planet. Not because we have divine understanding, but because there is a NEED to place intent on random events. Why did Hikaru's boat get struck by lightning and destroyed? If it is just a random thing, there's nothing we can do to prevent it. If it's due to an angry deity, we can try to prevent it by appeasing the deity with offerings, prayers, etc. So Hideki burns incense to honor Raijin. Then, when Hideki's boat doesn't get struck, he believes his entreaties to Raijin worked, therefore, Raijin is obviously real.Quote:
Without spending an hour, writing a summary, I can tell you that there is enough evidence pointing to the coming of Christ from both secular and non-secular sources that are too vast to be coincidental.
I don't believe it's an easy thing to get people to die for a lie. The disciples and apostles suffered greatly for their beliefs.
These beliefs are not just a story that they heard. They witnessed the events and then chose to die violent death's defending what it is that they saw. No riches to be gained. These were not demagogues, trying to create a political revolution
People go to war for lies. People fight to the death over lies. People willingly die for lies ALL THE TIME.Quote:
I don't think that you question that Homer wrote the Iliad & the Odyssey. We have more sources a testing to Christ & his resurrection then we do copies of the Odyssey.
Then there is the old scriptures, the Greek miracle, Alexander the Great. Lots of fun stuff.
The point being is that no one is ever going to be able to provide you with video evidence of the resurrection
Christ is not going to come to you and break it all down for you
A skeptical mind would say that the video was AI and that you were just dreaming if both of those things happened to them.
I have no idea if Homer wrote those works. But, I also am not told that Homer is God and I must obey him. I'm not told Homer hates gays and they should be persecuted. I'm not told that failing to believe in Homer will result in eternity in hell. So pointing out the Iliad may be mistakenly attributed to Homer doesn't equal evidence of Christianity as a fundamental truth.Quote:
At a point, there's something inside of you along with prayer and understanding and research that leads you to the conclusion that you just "know".
But one doesn't "know". One believes. The reason one believes, typically, is because it's been taught since childhood.
A Hindu is raised to believe Vishnu to be divine. So, Hindus believe Vishnu to be divine. To most Christians, this belief is seen as laughable. But in reality, the same mechanism supports Christian belief.
All your arguments are valid
However, you are correct in that those who simply just hear the stories and believe, but what I'm saying is, if you want to know, truly know, then you must truly ask God to reveal himself to you because you truly want to know him if he exist, and then you will get an answer that for me have convinced me that I know he exist because I asked the question and then the revelation begin
For me, it did not take long to start showing Himself but it has continued and continued and continue to reveal so will all the doubters trying to convince me to believe he does not exist. He continues to reveal himself so that I know he does.
I hope again that you ask was sincerity that he answer your question because no human being is going to show you how they know cause all you'll do is believe me, but you won't know for yourself
You have to ask God to reveal himself to you with sincerity I suggest picking up a Bible and reading it as well
For me, I did not pick up a Bible at first
For me, I asked the question with deep sincerity because I truly wanted to know God
And then I got to know him therefore I do know in my heart that he exist and I don't just believe. I can't say that it happens all the same for everyone who then knows him and has a relationship with him. But for me, I have had a series of miracles one that's so profound and documented in the hospital that there is no answer. Even my atheist surgeon came to my bedside after surgery and asked me specifically I don't know who your God is but in six hours you no longer needed the surgery at that point I was under anesthesia. I went in. He had just checked my status at midnight just to verify that he would not have to open up a 17 year-old boy, six hours later I was rolled into the surgical room put under anesthesia woke up a few hours later with the surgery no longer being necessary
Not even one of the most prominent doctors for the surgery I was going to undergo could explain how in six hours it no longer was necessary. That's as far as I'll share.
But I believe if you ask, you'll start to see your own answers, and this is one of many incidences that I've experienced
Again, I hope that answers your question because there is no way from anybody to convince you that you will then know he exist. You'll just have to have your miracles happen for you and then you will know.
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy
Joined:
Dec 2, 1999
Posts:
13,017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The potluck dinners and donuts after church.
In Hoc Signo Vinces
Mr. Thunderclap McGirthy said:
The potluck dinners and donuts after church.
lol True
diamondag said:TPS_Report said:diamondag said:TPS_Report said:CrackerJackAg said:Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
People go to war for lies. People fight to the death over lies. People willingly die for lies ALL THE TIME.
People don't go to war for lies. They go to war because they were lied to they go to war believing in something good they die because they believe in something good
They're not going because they believe the lie is good they go believing the lie that is told them to be good
So you're mixing the point
So when early Christians died for their belief in Christianity, they're not dying so they can continue a lie. They're dying because it's not a lie and they'd rather stay true to their faith, dying for it than staying alive and believing a lie and living their life in a lie
I'm not saying people go to war because they like lies or they want to defend the concept of lying. I'm saying people are told lies and they believe them so strongly, that they are willing to go to war. Of course the individual who was lied to doesn't see that it was a lie, they believe it to be the truth.
I don't believe 72 virgins await any Muslim who uses a suicide vest to blow up himself and a group of Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. I see the 72 virgins bit as a lie. The Muslim zealot sees it as the truth and is willing to die for it. Is it possible that it's true? I suppose so. It can't be 100% ruled out given our current knowledge, but the likelihood that it's true seems super remote. So the Muslim zealot is dying for a lie in my view and dying for the truth in his.
The early Christian was dying for believing that Jesus is God/Messiah/etc. Is it possible that Jesus as God/Messiah/etc. is true? I suppose so. It can't be 100% ruled out given our current knowledge, but the likelihood that it's true seems super remote. So the Christian is dying for a lie in my view and dying for the truth in his.
So no, I'm not mixing the point. The point is a person will believe a lie so thoroughly that they are willing to die for it.
Quote:
Thanks for the clarification
So the issue is. Are Christian's believing a lie
Did early Christian's believe a lie
Now I believe the argument stated earlier above on this thread, was arguing that there's some merit to the teachings that these early Christians (specificallythe apostles.) taught because they would not die a torturous death just because they were gonna tell a lie
The stories hold some credibility because they held on to their truth that they state they firsthand witnessed
Now, if a modern person today were to die, for that hearsay story told by the apostles and believed it to be true, but did not have firsthand knowledge then that would be correct in your argument that people die for a lie
But the apostles didn't die for a lie that they heard, they died, holding onto their truth, that they witnessed which gives their story credibility because if they were actually lying, they might break and they didn't
So therefore,when a person who says he saw a resurrected man died for his statement, that he says he saw first hand,
That holds some credibility
These stories are not firsthand accounts. These stories were told by people who weren't there... to transcribers who also were never there. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John didn't sit down and tell their stories to a scribe. The stories were told and re-told over the decades until someone decided to write them down. How much did these stories change during that time? We'll never know. But the credibility associated with firsthand reporting is unfounded in this instance.
Quote:
However, I'm not asking a non-Christian to believe the stories and teachings taught by anybody just because.
I would ask, and I do ask people who question the Christian faith to simply do their own research by simply Picking up a Bible and to ask God to reveal himself if He does exist.
you'll be surprised how many times I've told that to a nonbeliever and when they do ask God to reveal themselves, if God does exist,, I've been told by these friends of mine people who were atheist that they start to have their questions answered. In my experience, they come to Christ. They kinda start having their question answered in ways that I could not convince them it to be true. I've also have friends who atheist who never ask.
There are almost unending accounts of people "finding faith". The thing is, these accounts come from many different religions. If the act of "finding God" occurs in other religions, why would you believe the occurrence to be genuine in yours? It seems to me that humans have a propensity to do this regardless of the religion. Otherwise, this would only happen with Christianity.
TPS_Report said:diamondag said:TPS_Report said:diamondag said:TPS_Report said:CrackerJackAg said:Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
People go to war for lies. People fight to the death over lies. People willingly die for lies ALL THE TIME.
People don't go to war for lies. They go to war because they were lied to they go to war believing in something good they die because they believe in something good
They're not going because they believe the lie is good they go believing the lie that is told them to be good
So you're mixing the point
So when early Christians died for their belief in Christianity, they're not dying so they can continue a lie. They're dying because it's not a lie and they'd rather stay true to their faith, dying for it than staying alive and believing a lie and living their life in a lie
I'm not saying people go to war because they like lies or they want to defend the concept of lying. I'm saying people are told lies and they believe them so strongly, that they are willing to go to war. Of course the individual who was lied to doesn't see that it was a lie, they believe it to be the truth.
I don't believe 72 virgins await any Muslim who uses a suicide vest to blow up himself and a group of Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. I see the 72 virgins bit as a lie. The Muslim zealot sees it as the truth and is willing to die for it. Is it possible that it's true? I suppose so. It can't be 100% ruled out given our current knowledge, but the likelihood that it's true seems super remote. So the Muslim zealot is dying for a lie in my view and dying for the truth in his.
The early Christian was dying for believing that Jesus is God/Messiah/etc. Is it possible that Jesus as God/Messiah/etc. is true? I suppose so. It can't be 100% ruled out given our current knowledge, but the likelihood that it's true seems super remote. So the Christian is dying for a lie in my view and dying for the truth in his.
So no, I'm not mixing the point. The point is a person will believe a lie so thoroughly that they are willing to die for it.Quote:
Thanks for the clarification
So the issue is. Are Christian's believing a lie
Did early Christian's believe a lie
Now I believe the argument stated earlier above on this thread, was arguing that there's some merit to the teachings that these early Christians (specificallythe apostles.) taught because they would not die a torturous death just because they were gonna tell a lie
The stories hold some credibility because they held on to their truth that they state they firsthand witnessed
Now, if a modern person today were to die, for that hearsay story told by the apostles and believed it to be true, but did not have firsthand knowledge then that would be correct in your argument that people die for a lie
But the apostles didn't die for a lie that they heard, they died, holding onto their truth, that they witnessed which gives their story credibility because if they were actually lying, they might break and they didn't
So therefore,when a person who says he saw a resurrected man died for his statement, that he says he saw first hand,
That holds some credibility
These stories are not firsthand accounts. These stories were told by people who weren't there... to transcribers who also were never there. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John didn't sit down and tell their stories to a scribe. The stories were told and re-told over the decades until someone decided to write them down. How much did these stories change during that time? We'll never know. But the credibility associated with firsthand reporting is unfounded in this instance.Quote:
However, I'm not asking a non-Christian to believe the stories and teachings taught by anybody just because.
I would ask, and I do ask people who question the Christian faith to simply do their own research by simply Picking up a Bible and to ask God to reveal himself if He does exist.
you'll be surprised how many times I've told that to a nonbeliever and when they do ask God to reveal themselves, if God does exist,, I've been told by these friends of mine people who were atheist that they start to have their questions answered. In my experience, they come to Christ. They kinda start having their question answered in ways that I could not convince them it to be true. I've also have friends who atheist who never ask.
There are almost unending accounts of people "finding faith". The thing is, these accounts come from many different religions. If the act of "finding God" occurs in other religions, why would you believe the occurrence to be genuine in yours? It seems to me that humans have a propensity to do this regardless of the religion. Otherwise, this would only happen with Christianity.
I can only speak for my truth My personal experience
I believe you'll have to find your own spiritual truth and come to your own personal experience
I suggest your argument against Christianity also applies to atheism. And against to all spiritual beliefs
It's almost like a your argument presumes an atheist belief system as a default to somehow be a safe belief system even though it never asks the question of a almighty to reveal or fail to reveal to you proof of existence
that not believing or not knowing Christ , as your question asked how a person could say why the say they know Christ is God not simply believing Christ is God is a personal experience you will have to find on your own
My truth for me is my truth and everyone else their own but for someone to never ask the question of a almighty to reveal themselves sincerely ask is no harm to ask if God doesn't exist but one will never know unless they ask
It's almost like a fear to ask is like that person having a fear that somehow they will magically be brainwashed into then knowing Gid exist instead of it being a true revelation or proof He doesn't exist because that person will not have a revelation
I figure then that person will truly never know where their spiritual journey leads them until they sincerely seek the answer for themselves It could very will lead you somewhere other than spiritual conclusion other than Christ
But have you truly sought out the answer to that question by asking the almighty to reveal to you the truth ?
otherwise are you just hearing stories yourself and trying to come to a hearsay conclusion just the same as you conclude others have done.
The difference is I'm telling you my personal journey to be my truth to my life experience as I experienced it No person can tell me my journey is wrong just as I won't tell you yours is wrong unless as you say it's based on hearsay
I believe in God not because I read the Bible and those hearsay stories I believe those stories because I asked God to reveal himself to me and He did outside the Bible
I'm saying if you don't know your spiritual journey to be complete why not ask God to reveal himself to you if He truly exist. If it doesn't happen then you have your answer first hand
diamondag said:TPS_Report said:diamondag said:TPS_Report said:diamondag said:TPS_Report said:CrackerJackAg said:Dan Carlin said:CrackerJackAg said:
People go to war for lies. People fight to the death over lies. People willingly die for lies ALL THE TIME.
People don't go to war for lies. They go to war because they were lied to they go to war believing in something good they die because they believe in something good
They're not going because they believe the lie is good they go believing the lie that is told them to be good
So you're mixing the point
So when early Christians died for their belief in Christianity, they're not dying so they can continue a lie. They're dying because it's not a lie and they'd rather stay true to their faith, dying for it than staying alive and believing a lie and living their life in a lie
I'm not saying people go to war because they like lies or they want to defend the concept of lying. I'm saying people are told lies and they believe them so strongly, that they are willing to go to war. Of course the individual who was lied to doesn't see that it was a lie, they believe it to be the truth.
I don't believe 72 virgins await any Muslim who uses a suicide vest to blow up himself and a group of Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. I see the 72 virgins bit as a lie. The Muslim zealot sees it as the truth and is willing to die for it. Is it possible that it's true? I suppose so. It can't be 100% ruled out given our current knowledge, but the likelihood that it's true seems super remote. So the Muslim zealot is dying for a lie in my view and dying for the truth in his.
The early Christian was dying for believing that Jesus is God/Messiah/etc. Is it possible that Jesus as God/Messiah/etc. is true? I suppose so. It can't be 100% ruled out given our current knowledge, but the likelihood that it's true seems super remote. So the Christian is dying for a lie in my view and dying for the truth in his.
So no, I'm not mixing the point. The point is a person will believe a lie so thoroughly that they are willing to die for it.Quote:
Thanks for the clarification
So the issue is. Are Christian's believing a lie
Did early Christian's believe a lie
Now I believe the argument stated earlier above on this thread, was arguing that there's some merit to the teachings that these early Christians (specificallythe apostles.) taught because they would not die a torturous death just because they were gonna tell a lie
The stories hold some credibility because they held on to their truth that they state they firsthand witnessed
Now, if a modern person today were to die, for that hearsay story told by the apostles and believed it to be true, but did not have firsthand knowledge then that would be correct in your argument that people die for a lie
But the apostles didn't die for a lie that they heard, they died, holding onto their truth, that they witnessed which gives their story credibility because if they were actually lying, they might break and they didn't
So therefore,when a person who says he saw a resurrected man died for his statement, that he says he saw first hand,
That holds some credibility
These stories are not firsthand accounts. These stories were told by people who weren't there... to transcribers who also were never there. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John didn't sit down and tell their stories to a scribe. The stories were told and re-told over the decades until someone decided to write them down. How much did these stories change during that time? We'll never know. But the credibility associated with firsthand reporting is unfounded in this instance.Quote:
However, I'm not asking a non-Christian to believe the stories and teachings taught by anybody just because.
I would ask, and I do ask people who question the Christian faith to simply do their own research by simply Picking up a Bible and to ask God to reveal himself if He does exist.
you'll be surprised how many times I've told that to a nonbeliever and when they do ask God to reveal themselves, if God does exist,, I've been told by these friends of mine people who were atheist that they start to have their questions answered. In my experience, they come to Christ. They kinda start having their question answered in ways that I could not convince them it to be true. I've also have friends who atheist who never ask.
There are almost unending accounts of people "finding faith". The thing is, these accounts come from many different religions. If the act of "finding God" occurs in other religions, why would you believe the occurrence to be genuine in yours? It seems to me that humans have a propensity to do this regardless of the religion. Otherwise, this would only happen with Christianity.
I can only speak for my truth My personal experience
I believe you'll have to find your own spiritual truth and come to your own personal experience
I suggest your argument against Christianity also applies to atheism. And against to all spiritual beliefs
It's almost like a your argument presumes an atheist belief system as a default to somehow be a safe belief system even though it never asks the question of a almighty to reveal or fail to reveal to you proof of existence
that not believing or not knowing Christ , as your question asked how a person could say why the say they know Christ is God not simply believing Christ is God is a personal experience you will have to find on your own
My truth for me is my truth and everyone else their own but for someone to never ask the question of a almighty to reveal themselves sincerely ask is no harm to ask if God doesn't exist but one will never know unless they ask
It's almost like a fear to ask is like that person having a fear that somehow they will magically be brainwashed into then knowing Gid exist instead of it being a true revelation or proof He doesn't exist because that person will not have a revelation
I figure then that person will truly never know where their spiritual journey leads them until they sincerely seek the answer for themselves It could very will lead you somewhere other than spiritual conclusion other than Christ
But have you truly sought out the answer to that question by asking the almighty to reveal to you the truth ?
otherwise are you just hearing stories yourself and trying to come to a hearsay conclusion just the same as you conclude others have done.
The difference is I'm telling you my personal journey to be my truth to my life experience as I experienced it No person can tell me my journey is wrong just as I won't tell you yours is wrong unless as you say it's based on hearsay
I believe in God not because I read the Bible and those hearsay stories I believe those stories because I asked God to reveal himself to me and He did outside the Bible
I'm saying if you don't know your spiritual journey to be complete why not ask God to reveal himself to you if He truly exist. If it doesn't happen then you have your answer first hand
That is my experience as well. I sought after God and He revealed Himself. And it is wonderful. All fear disappears.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
diamondagThere are almost unending accounts of people "finding faith". The thing is, these accounts come from many different religions. If the act of "finding God" occurs in other religions, why would you believe the occurrence to be genuine in yours? It seems to me that humans have a propensity to do this regardless of the religion. Otherwise, this would only happen with Christianity. said:
I can only speak for my truth My personal experience
I believe you'll have to find your own spiritual truth and come to your own personal experience
I suggest your argument against Christianity also applies to atheism. And against to all spiritual beliefs
It's almost like a your argument presumes an atheist belief system as a default to somehow be a safe belief system even though it never asks the question of a almighty to reveal or fail to reveal to you proof of existence
that not believing or not knowing Christ , as your question asked how a person could say why the say they know Christ is God not simply believing Christ is God is a personal experience you will have to find on your own
My truth for me is my truth and everyone else their own but for someone to never ask the question of a almighty to reveal themselves sincerely ask is no harm to ask if God doesn't exist but one will never know unless they ask
It's almost like a fear to ask is like that person having a fear that somehow they will magically be brainwashed into then knowing Gid exist instead of it being a true revelation or proof He doesn't exist because that person will not have a revelation
I figure then that person will truly never know where their spiritual journey leads them until they sincerely seek the answer for themselves It could very will lead you somewhere other than spiritual conclusion other than Christ
But have you truly sought out the answer to that question by asking the almighty to reveal to you the truth ?
otherwise are you just hearing stories yourself and trying to come to a hearsay conclusion just the same as you conclude others have done.
The difference is I'm telling you my personal journey to be my truth to my life experience as I experienced it No person can tell me my journey is wrong just as I won't tell you yours is wrong unless as you say it's based on hearsay
I believe in God not because I read the Bible and those hearsay stories I believe those stories because I asked God to reveal himself to me and He did outside the Bible
I'm saying if you don't know your spiritual journey to be complete why not ask God to reveal himself to you if He truly exist. If it doesn't happen then you have your answer first hand
The spiritual awakening you describe is not unique to Christianity. This phenomenon has been reported in MANY religions, especially Islam. Given this awakening is not specific to any religion, it then is much more likely to be something intrinsic to humanity in general. This would also explain why there are thousands of active religions on this planet.
Our species is tribal and hierarchical as are many mammalian species. However, unlike say... wolves, we don't have instincts that create our social structure. Instead, we create religions within our tribes to establish hierarchies and bind the tribe together. What we consider myths today, were the religions of yesterday. The religions of today are the myths of tomorrow. In fact, some current religions are considered no different than mythology. Scientology is a prime example.
Featured Stories
See All
Cashius Howell validated and vindicated by postseason honors
by Olin Buchanan
Cashius Howell and Trey Zuhn III among 2025 SEC Award winners
by Richard Zane
Bobby Shuttleworth hired as Texas A&M's next head soccer coach
by Richard Zane
24:24
10h ago
7.2k
7:32
6h ago
2.4k
TDub
Recruiting staff to HS state title over Aggie playoff game
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
244
BetterNotBeChipKelly
TexAgs Should Double Premium Subscription Rate
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
218
rockwalltxag
Recruiting staff to HS state title over Aggie playoff game
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
154
AggieFamily97
Indiana DL got season ending injury high fiving fans
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
130
Dale Earnhardts Stache
Sherrone Moore fired at Michigan for cause
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
127