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The late John MacArthur says that Catholics and Protestants are not brothers and sisters in Christ. How wrong can one man be?

10andBOUNCE said:

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Maximus of Tejas said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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I've heard similar rhetoric from resident Catholic and EO folks on this board, since the Eucharist is not shared.

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Well since Christ specifically says you need the Eucharist for salvation I would take a deep dive into the historical account of that.

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We've all done this dance here far too many times on this forum. I'm aware of Rome's misunderstandings of basic soteriology which is precisely why this clip of MacArthur exists.

The humor is that a Catholic, whom already believes they are not in fellowship with classical Protestantism due to the differences in soteriology, is passing the blame onto Protestants as if we could all coexist with these major differences.

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Well according to Catholic dogma they do coexist so who cares what individual tradcats say. Some Protestants would argue that can't be the case but there is no normative authority or body that can function to say otherwise so no solutions there until someone comes along to bind everyone together aka antichrist. It's just individuals with their personal ahistorical idea of Christianity listening to other Protestants who are in the same boat. I know this has been said before but it's worth stating until people get it. It's the Orthodox worldview vs everyone else and more and more people are realizing this every day.

Maximus of Tejas said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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Maximus of Tejas said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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I've heard similar rhetoric from resident Catholic and EO folks on this board, since the Eucharist is not shared.

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Well since Christ specifically says you need the Eucharist for salvation I would take a deep dive into the historical account of that.

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We've all done this dance here far too many times on this forum. I'm aware of Rome's misunderstandings of basic soteriology which is precisely why this clip of MacArthur exists.

The humor is that a Catholic, whom already believes they are not in fellowship with classical Protestantism due to the differences in soteriology, is passing the blame onto Protestants as if we could all coexist with these major differences.

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Well according to Catholic dogma they do coexist so who cares what individual tradcats say. Some Protestants would argue that can't be the case but there is no normative authority or body that can function to say otherwise so no solutions there until someone comes along to bind everyone together aka antichrist. It's just individuals with their personal ahistorical idea of Christianity listening to other Protestants who are in the same boat. I know this has been said before but it's worth stating until people get it. It's the Orthodox worldview vs everyone else and more and more people are realizing this every day.

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So explain it to me like I'm 5…how do we coexist per Catholic dogma yet we are not in union and not saved since we have not received the Eucharist? I'm all ears.

Maximus of Tejas said:

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more and more people are realizing this every day.

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I do think people are hungry for stability and unity and historical accuracy when it comes to religion. On the surface Rome and Constantinople do offer this. My theory is that people are leaving modern Protestant churches due to the mega church model that prioritizes the experience via lights and fog machines with rich pastors.

Just my two cents.

I do consider Protestants, all of them, to be my brother and sister. The Catechism doesn't say that people who don't receive the Eucharist are going to hell, BTW. But if you never read it, then you can just go on believing the big lie...

10andBOUNCE said:

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Maximus of Tejas said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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Maximus of Tejas said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

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I've heard similar rhetoric from resident Catholic and EO folks on this board, since the Eucharist is not shared.

---

Well since Christ specifically says you need the Eucharist for salvation I would take a deep dive into the historical account of that.

---

We've all done this dance here far too many times on this forum. I'm aware of Rome's misunderstandings of basic soteriology which is precisely why this clip of MacArthur exists.

The humor is that a Catholic, whom already believes they are not in fellowship with classical Protestantism due to the differences in soteriology, is passing the blame onto Protestants as if we could all coexist with these major differences.

---

Well according to Catholic dogma they do coexist so who cares what individual tradcats say. Some Protestants would argue that can't be the case but there is no normative authority or body that can function to say otherwise so no solutions there until someone comes along to bind everyone together aka antichrist. It's just individuals with their personal ahistorical idea of Christianity listening to other Protestants who are in the same boat. I know this has been said before but it's worth stating until people get it. It's the Orthodox worldview vs everyone else and more and more people are realizing this every day.

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So explain it to me like I'm 5…how do we coexist per Catholic dogma yet we are not in union and not saved since we have not received the Eucharist? I'm all ears.

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Well it's obviously contradictory. Vatican II says Protestants can be saved through baptism. Famously it says Muslims worship the same god as well. Catholics don't have the luxury to argue against the Roman See regardless of contradictions in their previous dogmatic statements.

Thaddeus73 said:

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I do consider Protestants, all of them, to be my brother and sister. The Catechism doesn't say that people who don't receive the Eucharist are going to hell, BTW. But if you never read it, then you can just go on believing the big lie...

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I'm literally just going off what different folks here have commented and said. I really have no interest in chasing Catholic dogma rabbit holes that apparently can't be explained well enough amongst friends.

If we're not in hell then where would we be?

MacArthur also slammed Billy Graham, my favorite protestant Evangelist, on non - Christians being spared by God....

Thaddeus73 said:

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MacArthur also slammed Billy Graham, my favorite protestant Evangelist, on non - Christians being spared by God....

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First of all, I know John MacArthur is with the Lord. I doubt if he would think I would end up there. He had an extremely exclusive view of salvation. But I will be with the Lord.

Maybe the most mean spirited pastor, except for Paul Washer or Steve Lawson, I have ever perused. And the fruits of the Spirit are peace, love, joy, patience, kindness, meekness, goodness, faithfulness, and self control. I do not see those in his words.

Google John MacArthur on mental illness or spousal abuse.

Maximus of Tejas said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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Maximus of Tejas said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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Maximus of Tejas said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

I've heard similar rhetoric from resident Catholic and EO folks on this board, since the Eucharist is not shared.

---

Well since Christ specifically says you need the Eucharist for salvation I would take a deep dive into the historical account of that.

---

We've all done this dance here far too many times on this forum. I'm aware of Rome's misunderstandings of basic soteriology which is precisely why this clip of MacArthur exists.

The humor is that a Catholic, whom already believes they are not in fellowship with classical Protestantism due to the differences in soteriology, is passing the blame onto Protestants as if we could all coexist with these major differences.

---

Well according to Catholic dogma they do coexist so who cares what individual tradcats say. Some Protestants would argue that can't be the case but there is no normative authority or body that can function to say otherwise so no solutions there until someone comes along to bind everyone together aka antichrist. It's just individuals with their personal ahistorical idea of Christianity listening to other Protestants who are in the same boat. I know this has been said before but it's worth stating until people get it. It's the Orthodox worldview vs everyone else and more and more people are realizing this every day.

---

So explain it to me like I'm 5…how do we coexist per Catholic dogma yet we are not in union and not saved since we have not received the Eucharist? I'm all ears.

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Well it's obviously contradictory. Vatican II says Protestants can be saved through baptism. Famously it says Muslims worship the same god as well. Catholics don't have the luxury to argue against the Roman See regardless of contradictions in their previous dogmatic statements.

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Are you surprised Rome contradicts itself? It's what you are most known for.

Unam Sanctam:

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Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.

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Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter]. Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.'

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I believe that Jesus will come to us all at the end of our lives here on earth. At that point, all non-believers will have one last chance to say yes to him. And that is how I believe that non-Christians will be saved. The Divine Mercy of God is very real.

Trent Horn corrects all of the lies...

Thaddeus73 said:

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I believe that Jesus will come to us all at the end of our lives here on earth. At that point, all non-believers will have one last chance to say yes to him. And that is how I believe that non-Christians will be saved. The Divine Mercy of God is very real.

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I agree. God loves every person He created and desires all to be saved. What a wonderful God we serve.

10andBOUNCE said:

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Thaddeus73 said:

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I do consider Protestants, all of them, to be my brother and sister. The Catechism doesn't say that people who don't receive the Eucharist are going to hell, BTW. But if you never read it, then you can just go on believing the big lie...

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I'm literally just going off what different folks here have commented and said. I really have no interest in chasing Catholic dogma rabbit holes that apparently can't be explained well enough amongst friends.

If we're not in hell then where would we be?

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You will be wherever Vatican III says lol. Obviously the next big council will be highly inclusive in all the wrong ways. The trend is obvious.

Why do you repeatedly commit the sin of bearing false witness against thy neighbor? My God, stand down.

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Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.'

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john 10:16: And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Please...Read your bible before you tell me what I think..

Thaddeus73 said:

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Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.'

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john 10:16: And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Please...Read your bible before you tell me what I think..

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You realize that John 10:16 is about the eventual inclusion of the Gentiles into the one Church? Instead of relying on pop apologists, maybe read more?

I.e. the original promise was to the Jews only, but would now include the Gentiles.

That is materially different then the spin you are attempting.

Jesus said both Jews and Gentiles would come to believe in Him as their Savior.

Unam Sanctum is not saying this. It is adding a new requirement that you must also bow to the pope. That since the Greeks will not, they are outside the Church.

Edit: I wanted to say it as clearly as possible. John 10:16 is about inclusion. Inclusion of the Gentiles with the Jews. Unam Sanctum is about Exclusion. The exclusion of all people who don't bow to the pope.

If you want to argue that a pope misused scripture, that would be believable. But the spin you're trying is not.

Btw...Bellarmine (Doctor of your church), of course, disagrees with your bad attempt at spin.

"The Catholic teaching is that the Church is only one, not two, and that the body of men of the same Christian profession and of the same Sacraments gathered in communion is one and true, under the rule of legitimate pastors and especially of the one Vicar of Christ on Earth, the Roman Pontiff. From such a definition it can be clearly understood which men pertain to the Church and which do not. For there are three parts of this definition; the profession of the true faith, the communion of the Sacraments, and subjection to the legitimate pastor, the Roman Pontiff. By the reasoning of the first all infidels and those who have never entered the Church are excluded, such as Jews, Turks, and Pagans; then those who were in the Church but left, such as heretics and apostates. By the reasoning of the second part, all Catechumens and excommunicates are excluded, because they have not been admitted to the communion of the Sacraments, these are sent out; by reasoning of the third, all schismatics are excluded, that is those who have the faith and the Sacraments, but are not under the legitimate pastor, and therefore profess the faith and receive the Sacraments outside of the Church. Yet, all others, even the base, wicked and impious are included."

PabloSerna said:

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Why do you repeatedly commit the sin of bearing false witness against thy neighbor? My God, stand down.

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I want my Catholic and Protestant brethren to become Orthodox.

Fake news. I never said that.