Latin vs Greek

849 Views | 13 Replies | Last: 18 hrs ago by FIDO95
FIDO95
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AG
…vs Aramaic!? This was beautiful:

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BonfireNerd04
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I wonder how many Hebrew and Aramaic texts early Christians wrote during the first century. Today, we know very few of the actual words that Jesus spoke, only Greek translations.
Mark Fairchild
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AG
Thank you! Absolutely beautiful!
Gig'em, Ole Army Class of '70
KingofHazor
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It was beautiful, but it's not 100% certain that Jesus spoke the words recorded in the NT in Aramaic. There is significant scholarly support that some and possibly much of his recorded words he spoke in Greek.
Sapper Redux
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KingofHazor said:

It was beautiful, but it's not 100% certain that Jesus spoke the words recorded in the NT in Aramaic. There is significant scholarly support that some and possibly much of his recorded words he spoke in Greek.


Jesus almost certainly didn't speak Greek. The gospels are written originally in Greek.
TeddyAg0422
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AG
Jesus almost certainly DID speak Greek
Sapper Redux
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TeddyAg0422 said:

Jesus almost certainly DID speak Greek


Galilee had little Greek influence and was Jewish as other regions of Judea. Jesus was not from an educated family and there's no evidence to support him speaking Greek.
TeddyAg0422
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AG
The areas being Jewish doesn't make them exclusively Aramaic-speaking areas. Not sure where you're cherry-picking your research from, but like throughout the much of the eastern part of the empire, Greek was commonly spoken. In fact, it was virtually the official language of Israel at this time in written and administrative areas.

Also, your claim about Galilee being absent of Greek influence is completely false. All it takes is reading the consensus of as many scholarly sources as you'd like to see this. It's just completely untrue. It's akin to saying College Station is void of Hispanic influence.

Dr. Michael Wise (Ph.D. in classics and near eastern Judaica) estimates at least 30% of the common people in this area could speak Greek alongside Aramaic. When considering Jesus' case, these odds shoot up. Jesus, an itinerant rabbi, very well educated, and likely commonly engaged in business with non-Jews (through carpentry work and through preaching) very likely spoke Greek, as did the apostles that lived closely with him.

I'm not particularly interested in arguing these points, but I felt it'd be a disservice to people who still might take your arguments seriously not to respond here.
Zobel
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AG
John 12:20 comes to mind.
nortex97
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AG
I kinda doubt he spoke Greek (or Latin.). Some Hebrew, sure. I also don't think it's 'worth' arguing about, either.

Paul through his training clearly spoke (koine/high) Greek, and his epistles are older than the written Gospels, but he never even felt a need to convey any differential meanings between Aramaic and Greek at the times his letters were written down to his (mostly illiterate) followers. If it didn't matter to Paul, one of the most argumentative/hot-headed writers in the entire NT, it probably shouldn't to us, imho.
KingofHazor
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It is worth discussing because it illustrates the problem of personal opinion based on little or no facts passing as established truth and even "consensus of scholars" in academia. We laugh at the debates of scholars from 100 years ago yet the exact same types of debates are conducted today - slap fights between scholars over mere opinions.

It seems to me that the honest answer is to say that we simply don't know for sure if Jesus spoke in Greek or not, but evidence does exist that strongly suggests that he probably did.

That position is illustrated by this response from Google AI:

While the scholarly consensus maintains that Jesus primarily taught in Aramaic, a significant body of research argues that he likely possessed at least conversational proficiency in Koine Greek due to the multilingual nature of first-century Palestine.

The following scholarly sources and researchers support the argument that Jesus may have spoken Greek:

Key Proponents and Major Works
  • Stanley E. Porter: A leading modern advocate for Jesus' use of Greek. He argues that Jesus likely had enough linguistic competence not only to converse but also to teach in Greek in certain contexts.
    • Recommended Reading: The Language of the New Testament: Classic Essays (1991).
  • Martin Hengel: His foundational work demonstrated that first-century Judaism was deeply Hellenized, making it "historically untenable" to separate the Greek Gospels from an Aramaic-speaking Jesus.
    • Recommended Reading: Judaism and Hellenism (1974).
  • G. Scott Gleaves: Contends that Greek was a dominant language in Roman Palestine and that Jesus "by necessity" used it in Galilee.
    • Recommended Reading: Did Jesus Speak Greek? The Emerging Evidence of Greek Dominance in First-Century Palestine (2015).
  • Nigel Turner: Argued that the Greek of the Gospels sometimes reflects a "Jewish Greek" dialect that may have been spoken by Jesus himself rather than being a translation from Aramaic.
  • Joseph Fitzmyer: While emphasizing Aramaic, Fitzmyer acknowledged the widespread use of Greek in Palestine and the high probability that Jesus used it for certain interactions.
  • John P. Meier: In his multi-volume study of the historical Jesus, he concludes that Jesus likely spoke Greek to a "reasonable degree".
Evidence Cited by Scholars
Scholars draw on several lines of evidence to support this possibility:
  • Interactions with Non-Jews: Jesus' conversations with the Roman centurion (Matthew 8:5), the Syrophoenician woman (Mark 7:26), and Pontius Pilate (John 18:33) almost certainly would have occurred in Greek, as Greek was the common language for communication between Romans and locals.
  • Geographic Proximity: Jesus grew up in Nazareth, which was only a few miles from Sepphoris, a major Hellenized city where Greek was extensively used for trade and administration.
  • Septuagint Usage: Many New Testament quotations of the Old Testament are based on the
    Septuagint (LXX)
    , the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, suggesting Jesus and his disciples were familiar with this version.
  • The "Bar Kokhba" Letters: Discovery of first- and second-century documents, including letters written in Greek by Jewish revolutionaries, proves that Greek was used even by nationalist Jews in everyday life.
Sapper Redux
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TeddyAg0422 said:

The areas being Jewish doesn't make them exclusively Aramaic-speaking areas. Not sure where you're cherry-picking your research from, but like throughout the much of the eastern part of the empire, Greek was commonly spoken. In fact, it was virtually the official language of Israel at this time in written and administrative areas.

Also, your claim about Galilee being absent of Greek influence is completely false. All it takes is reading the consensus of as many scholarly sources as you'd like to see this. It's just completely untrue. It's akin to saying College Station is void of Hispanic influence.

Dr. Michael Wise (Ph.D. in classics and near eastern Judaica) estimates at least 30% of the common people in this area could speak Greek alongside Aramaic. When considering Jesus' case, these odds shoot up. Jesus, an itinerant rabbi, very well educated, and likely commonly engaged in business with non-Jews (through carpentry work and through preaching) very likely spoke Greek, as did the apostles that lived closely with him.

I'm not particularly interested in arguing these points, but I felt it'd be a disservice to people who still might take your arguments seriously not to respond here.


Wise's opinion isn't widely held. Literacy was extremely rare in 1st century Judea, particularly an area like Galilee, and estimates that 30% of common people in the region could speak Koine Greek are based on little more than pure speculation involving extrapolating very limited surveys over centuries into claims about specific regions at specific points in time (see Mark Chancey). Certainly cities would have a higher concentration of Greek speakers, but there are no significant cities in Galilee. The idea that Jesus or the apostles knew some Greek to get by in certain situations is possible, but the idea they were quoting the LXX to each other or Galilee crowds or speaking in Greek constantly is not born out as likely based on what we know.

If we're listing scholars, there's Heszer, Goldblatt, Smelick, Reed, Goodman, Bar-Ilan, Cribiore, and Chancey.
88Warrior
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I'm of the mind that he probably spoke every language on earth at that time seeing he is God and all……but that's just me….
FIDO95
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AG


Traditional. Sacred. Ancient. Beautiful. I've watched in 10 times and it still causes my eyes to well up.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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