Matthew 6:16-18
And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

What ever happened to the whole in secret thing?

Zobel said:

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I'd be more interested in why Protestants have abandoned the discipline of fasting altogether than a deliberate misunderstanding of Ash Wednesday.

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I honestly agree. It is a forgotten discipline.

Zobel said:

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I'd be more interested in why Protestants have abandoned the discipline of fasting altogether than a deliberate misunderstanding of Ash Wednesday.

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Protestant here. I fast one day per week, year round.

My wife once did a 40 day water fast.

Who says we don't fast?

Rex Racer said:

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Zobel said:

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I'd be more interested in why Protestants have abandoned the discipline of fasting altogether than a deliberate misunderstanding of Ash Wednesday.

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Protestant here. I fast one day per week, year round.

My wife once did a 40 day water fast.

Who says we don't fast?

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More often than not... it's not a thing in those traditions. And the times it is a thing, it's more often than not someone doing on their own rather than congregation as a whole.

747Ag said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Zobel said:

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I'd be more interested in why Protestants have abandoned the discipline of fasting altogether than a deliberate misunderstanding of Ash Wednesday.

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Protestant here. I fast one day per week, year round.

My wife once did a 40 day water fast.

Who says we don't fast?

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More often than not... it's not a thing in those traditions. And the times it is a thing, it's more often than not someone doing on their own rather than congregation as a whole.

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I'll bet there are lot of Catholics who don't do it. You just think they do.

Zobel said:

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I'd be more interested in why Protestants have abandoned the discipline of fasting altogether than a deliberate misunderstanding of Ash Wednesday.

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Presbyterian here. I am making a sacrifice, denying myself of indulgences, (and I need to fast!), and committed to being penitent.

My hope is to become the Christian that God wants me to be, and to hear his Call.

Amen!

KingofHazor said:

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Protestants definitely fast.

And why these constant "gotchas". Why are we constantly attacking each other rather than glorying in our range of unique distinctiveness? Aren't we violating the Scriptural admonition of the eye criticizing the foot for not being an eye? Shouldn't we be instead unifying in the face of our common enemy, a secular culture that is extraordinarily hostile to Christianity in all of its forms? We are all followers of Christ, believing that we are sinners and in need of Christ's grace and mercy.

In my mind's eye, I see the atheists and agnostics on this board chuckling as we Christians constantly attack each other. They correctly view our attacks as doing their job for them and proving their point.

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Great post.

Here's the issue - going to ash wednesday (which is not part of my tradition) is not an individual boasting about fasting. It's a community thing, and in their ideal state -- not so long ago for many communities -- everyone had ashes on their forehead, so it certainly wasn't any kind of signifier of piety. The corporate life of the Christian church, from ancient times, isn't just about sundays but about living as a community day in and day out. How we pray together, how we fast together, how we worship together. A modern Christian sees a community act of penitence and reads it as individual piety. And in a kind of irony, most of the defense to the charge of "protestants don't fast" is "but I do". We say the same words but mean different things.

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Why are we constantly attacking each other rather than glorying in our range of unique distinctiveness? Aren't we violating the Scriptural admonition of the eye criticizing the foot for not being an eye?

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No, because we aren't one body. I don't see any glory in the unique distinctiveness of groups that have separated themselves. It's like asking me both tolerate and praise my hand being cut off.

Anyway - if you read what I write about the traditional fasting discipline, which not only the majority of Christians practiced until relatively recent times but a huge portion still practices today, and that either bothers you or makes you curious, good.

I need to be careful, because the protestant tradition in the US has become almost exclusively an individual faith, so criticism of the various traditions is directly felt as individual attack. It isn't intended to be. I think there are a great many wonderful people who are doing their best to love and follow God, and are better and more pious people than me. At the same time, I think the religious landscape in this country is a wreck and they could benefit so much (as I do) from the fullness of truth found in the church.

I'd love to unify - you are welcome to come to liturgy.

10andBOUNCE said:

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Matthew 6:16-18
And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

What ever happened to the whole in secret thing?

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The Gospel reading for Ash Wednesday

The ashes are a sign of penitence, not hey look everybody we're fasting.

“The ashes mean I’m a sinner. The shape of the cross means I have a Savior.”

~ Fr. Mike Schmitz pic.twitter.com/MFcWuFzhZA

— MrCasey (@MrCasey62) February 18, 2026

I would be curious the roots of it. Was the early church doing this?

Amen!

KingofHazor said:

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It's funny that many church traditions claim that all others are "divisive" yet insist that all must be as they are. Isn't that the essence of divisiveness? Aren't those that do so guilty of seeing the speck in their brother's eye and ignoring the beam in their own?

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I think that depends on if you are willing to evaluate yourself. We all have logs in our eyes. Are we trying to identify and remove them? Or are we just focused on our brother?

10andBOUNCE said:

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I would be curious the roots of it. Was the early church doing this?

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I was wondering that myself. I used the AI in Hallow App as my starting point and will go to the primary sources for a more in-depth look and will share what I found of interest to me.

The starting point:

Fasting has deep roots in biblical tradition, was practiced by early Christians as imitation of Christ, and evolved into a structured liturgical discipline in the patristic era, particularly during Lent, as a means of spiritual combat, purification, and preparation for Easter.[^1] [^2]

### Biblical Origins
Fasting appears throughout Scripture as a practice of penance, supplication, and spiritual preparation. Moses fasted for 40 days and nights on Sinai while awaiting the Tables of the Law, symbolizing total dependence on God as the source of life: "life comes from God, that it is he who sustains it... fasting indicates that life comes from God."[^8] Jesus Himself fasted for 40 days in the wilderness, overcoming the devil's temptations, a model Christians have imitated since ancient times.[^1] The Gospels link fasting inseparably with prayer for combating evil: "This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer and fasting" (Mk 9:29).[^5] [^9]

### Early Church and Patristic Development
Christians fasted from apostolic times, initially as preparation for the Paschal fast on Good Friday and Holy Saturday.[^2] By the late 4th century, Lent (Quadragesima) emerged as a 40-day period of fasting. St. Jerome's letter around 384 AD is the first Roman witness to this practice, characterized by abstinence.[^2] St. Leo the Great's Lenten sermons emphasized fasting alongside virtue, linking it to almsgiving for moral renewal.[^2] [^3]

Monastics further developed fasting as spiritual combat for purity of heart, restraining body and passions: "Fasting takes hold of the entire being: the body through restraint in food and drink, and the soul through restraint of the passions."[^1] St. John Chrysostom taught holistic fasting, extending beyond food to avoid slander and sin: "Do you not eat flesh? Feed not upon indecency by means of the eyes. Let the ear fast also."[^1] In the East, the Great Fast (Lent) drew from conciliar norms like Trullo (691692).[^6]

### Liturgical Integration in Lent
Lent formalized as a 40-day fast (excluding Sundays in some traditions, like Milanese practice with preparatory weeks).[^2] [^7] Popes like Benedict XVI highlighted its role in interior purification: "Fasting... stems from the need that man has for an interior purification that detoxifies him from the pollution of sin and evil; it educates him to that healthy renunciation."[^4] It remains a core Lenten triad with prayer and almsgiving.[^3]

In summary, Christian fasting traces from biblical precedents through early asceticism to its enduring place in Lent, always as a path to holiness and union with Christ.[^1] [^2] [^4]



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[^1] Catechism of the Ukrainian Catholic Church: Christ Our Pascha, (Synod of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church), 786

[^2] Handbook for Liturgical Studies: The Eucharist (Volume V), (Pontifical Liturgical Institute), page200

[^3] General Audience of 9 March 2011: Ash Wednesday, (Pope Benedict XVI)

[^4] 21 February 2007, Blessing and Imposition of the Ashes at the Basilica of St Sabina on the Aventine Hill, (Pope Benedict XVI)

[^5] Catechism of the Ukrainian Catholic Church: Christ Our Pascha, (Synod of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church), 702

[^6] Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Christian East, (Edward G. Farrugia), Fast, Great

[^7] Handbook for Liturgical Studies: The Eucharist (Volume V), (Pontifical Liturgical Institute), page229

[^8] General Audience of 1 June 2011: Man in Prayer (5), (Pope Benedict XVI)

[^9] Commentary on Matthew, (Thomas Aquinas), 17:21

[^10] The Perfection of the Spiritual Life (Liber de perfectione spiritualis vitae), (Thomas Aquinas), Chapter 9

Rex Racer said:

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747Ag said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Zobel said:

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I'd be more interested in why Protestants have abandoned the discipline of fasting altogether than a deliberate misunderstanding of Ash Wednesday.

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Protestant here. I fast one day per week, year round.

My wife once did a 40 day water fast.

Who says we don't fast?

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More often than not... it's not a thing in those traditions. And the times it is a thing, it's more often than not someone doing on their own rather than congregation as a whole.

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I'll bet there are lot of Catholics who don't do it. You just think they do.

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Sick burn? It's a requirement for us unlike most traditions out there. Whether or not people around me in the pews are observant is a different question.

Zobel said:

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I'd be more interested in why Protestants have abandoned the discipline of fasting altogether than a deliberate misunderstanding of Ash Wednesday.

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We have? My church takes part in this yearly. You should check it out.

https://www.awakenhouston.org/

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Awaken Houston is a city-wide movement of prayer, fasting, and gospel proclamation, uniting the Church across Greater Houston to seek personal renewal, revival within our churches, and a spiritual awakening in our city. In 2026, we celebrate ten years of unified, collaborative prayer and fasting a decade of believers coming together across denominations and communities to seek God for spiritual transformation in Houston.

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I'm working on a iPad so I will do my best to pull the origin of Lent & Fasting.

I'm a Catholic and just gathering information from the resources that I find interesting. I am not a writer so I will not be writing long in-depth thoughts on what I gather. I hope you find it useful but really doing it for my personal knowledge.

The beginning of Lent:

3. LentEven though its origins are not clear, Lent appears as a time of preparation prior to the paschal fast of the Friday and Saturday before Easter. In a letter to Marcella from around 384, St. Jerome is the first witness in Rome to the existence of Lent (Quadragesima), which was characterized by fasting.15 The Lenten sermons of St. Leo the Great also have a clear ascetical and moral content, with a focus on fasting and the practice of virtue. Lent became the framework for the final

From: Handbook for Liturgical Studies: The Eucharist (Volume V)

This really powerful to me:

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In the Church's tradition, this journey we are asked to take in Lent is marked by certain practices: fasting, almsgiving and prayer. Fasting means abstinence from food but includes other forms of privation for a more modest life. However, all this is not yet the full reality of fasting: it is an outer sign of an inner reality, of our commitment, with God's help, to abstain from evil and to live by the Gospel. Those who are unable to nourish themselves with the word of God do not fast properly.
In the Christian tradition fasting is closely linked to almsgiving. St Leo the Great taught in one of his Discourses on Lent: "All that each Christian is bound to do in every season he must now do with greater solicitude and devotion in order to fulfil the apostolic prescription of Lenten fasting consistently, not only in abstinence from food but also and above all from sin. Furthermore, with this holy fasting which is only right, no work may be more fruitfully associated than almsgiving which, under the one name of 'mercy', embraces many good works. The field of works of mercy is immense. It is not only the rich and the well-off who can benefit others with almsgiving, but also those of modest means and even the poor. Thus, although their futures differ, all may be the same in the soul's sentiments of piety" (Sermon VI on Lent, 2: PL 54, 286).
St Gregory the Great recalled in his Pastoral Rule that fasting is sanctified by the virtues that go with it, especially by charity, by every act of generosity, giving to the poor and needy the equivalent of something we ourselves have given up (cf. 19, 10-11). Lent, moreover, is a privileged period for prayer. St Augustine said that fasting and almsgiving are "the two wings of prayer" which enable it to gain momentum and more easily reach even to God.
He said: "In this way our prayers, made in humility and charity, in fasting and almsgiving, in temperance and in the forgiveness of offences, giving good things and not returning those that are bad, keeping away from evil and doing good, seek peace and achieve it. On the wings of these virtues our prayers fly safely and are more easily carried to Heaven, where Christ our Peace has preceded us" (Sermon 206, 3 on Lent: PL 38, 1042).

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The full text:
http://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/audiences/2011/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20110309.html

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Dear brothers and sisters, we have 40 days to deepen this extraordinary ascetical and spiritual experience. In the Gospel that has been proclaimed, Jesus indicates some of the useful instruments to accomplish an authentic interior and communitarian renewal: the works of charity (almsgiving), prayer and penance (fasting).
They are the three fundamental practices also dear to the Hebrew tradition, because they contribute to the purification of man before God (cf. Mt 6: 1-6, 16-18). Such exterior gestures, which are done to please God and not to obtain the approval and consensus of men, are acceptable to him if they express the determination of the heart to serve him with simplicity and generosity.
One of the Lenten Prefaces also reminds us of this with regards to fasting, as we read this singular expression: "ieiunio... mentem elevas: with fasting the spirit is raised" (Preface IV).
Fasting, to which the Church invites us in this particular season, certainly is not motivated by the physical or aesthetical order, but stems from the need that man has for an interior purification that detoxifies him from the pollution of sin and evil; it educates him to that healthy renunciation which releases the believer from the slavery to self; that renders him more attentive and open to listen to God and to be at the service of the brethren.
For this reason fasting and the other Lenten practices are considered the traditional Christian spiritual "arms" used to fight evil, unhealthy passions and vice. Concerning this, I would like to listen, together with you, to a brief comment of St John Chrysostom.

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http://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/homilies/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20070221_ash-wednesday.html


A lot of good information in this document but I would need to read it fully to truly pick out the most compelling items on fasting. Maybe someone more familiar with this Catechism can do that:

https://eeparchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Christ-our-Pascha-Catechism-of-the-Ukrainian-Catholic-Church-by-Comission-for-the-Catehism-z-lib.org_.pdf

This next one is very good and I suggest reading it in its entirety.

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It is this episode on which I would like to reflect in today's Catechesis and, in particular, on Moses' prayer which we find in the Exodus narrative. The people of Israel were at the foot of Sinai whereas Moses, on the mountain, was waiting for the gift of the Tables of the Law, fasting for 40 days and 40 nights (cf. Ex 24:18; Dt 9:9). The number 40 has a symbolic value and suggests the totality of the experience, whereas fasting indicates that life comes from God, that it is he who sustains it.
Indeed, the act of eating entails the assumption of the nourishment that keeps us going; hence fasting, giving up all food, in this case acquires a religious significance: it is a way of showing that man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord (cf. Deut 8:3). By fasting Moses showed that he was awaiting the gift of the divine Law as a source of life: this Law reveals God's will and nourishes the human heart, bringing men and women to enter into a covenant with the Most High, who is the source of life, who is life itself.

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http://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/audiences/2011/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20110601.html

I will have to get a hardcover of this book to read: Commentary on the Gospel of St. Matthew Kindle Edition
by St. Thomas Aquinas (Author)

There is a lot on fasting and prayer in the book & I will have to read it cover to cover at a later date but this seems relevant:
But this kind of devil (the word this does not indicate the genus of lunatic, but every kind of devil) is not cast out but by prayer and fasting. Chrysostom says that inasmuch as the soul is more elevated, to that degree is it more of a terror to the devils; for Christ Himself was a terror to the devils: hence, they who are joined to Christ are a terror to them. Now, the lifting of the mind is impeded through heaviness of the flesh, it is impeded by surfeiting and drunkenness; hence, it is said: "Take heed to yourselves, lest perhaps your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness," etc., (Lk. 21, 34). Hence, one cannot have one's mind lifted up to God, who is made heavy with drunkenness; for that reason, fasting is required for the mind to be lifted up; hence, in Tobias it is said: "Prayer is good with fasting" (12,8). Likewise: "I Daniel gave my heart to pray with fasting." For that reason, as Origen says, so that a spirit be expelled, one must not give oneself to feasting, but to prayers and fasting. Or, by the lunatic, the instability of the flesh is signified: or he who is led by various desires is signified.

Quote:

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Abbot Moses, in his conferences to the fathers, says that, in order to preserve purity of heart, "we ought to seek solitude and to practise fasting, watching, and bodily labour: to wear scant clothing; and to attend to reading; in order, by these means, to be able to keep our heart uncontaminated by passion, and to ascend to a high degree of charity." It is for this reason, that such exercises are practised in the religious life. Perfection does not consist in them; but they are, so to speak, instruments whereby perfection is acquired. Abbot Moses, therefore, continues, "Fasting, vigils, hunger, meditation on the scriptures, nakedness, and the privation of all possessions, are not themselves perfection; but they are the instruments of perfection. The end of discipline does not lie in them; but, by their means we arrive at the end."
But, perchance, someone may object, that it is possible to acquire perfection without fasting or vigils or the like, for we read that "the Son of Man came eating and drinking" (Matt. xi. 19), nor did His disciples fast, as did the Pharisees, and the followers of St. John. To this argument we find in the Gloss the following answer: "John drank no wine nor strong drink; for abstinence increases merit, though nature has no power to do so. But, why should the Lord, to Whom it belongs to forgive sin, turn away from sinners who feast, when he is able to make them more righteous than those who fast?" The disciples and Christ had no need to fast; for the presence of the Bridegroom gave them more strength than the followers of John gained by fasting. Hence our Lord says (Matt. ix. 15), "But the days will come when the Bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then they shall fast." St. Chrysostom makes the following comment on these words, "Fasting is not naturally grievous, save to those whose weakness is indisposed to it. They who desire to contemplate heavenly wisdom rejoice in fasting. Now, as when our Lord spoke the words we have just quoted, the disciples were still weak in virtue, it was not the fitting season to bring sadness upon them. It was more meet to wait until they were strengthened in faith. They were dispensed from fasting, not by reason of their gluttony, but by a certain privilege."
St. Paul, however, writing to the Corinthians (2 Ep. vi. 3), expressly shows how fasting enables men to avoid sin, and to acquire perfection. He says, "Giving no offence to any man, that our ministry be not blamed; but in all things let us exhibit ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in tribulation, in necessities, in distress, in stripes, in prisons, in seditions, in labours, in watchings, in fastings, in chastity."

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THE PERFECTION OF THE SPIRITUAL LIFE by Thomas Aquinas

So proud of them, When I was there, sometimes I would be the only guy to show up for daily Mass held in the Rec Room....

I think the growth of the university & building new facilities has greatly enhanced Catholics going to Mass there.

747Ag said:

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Rex Racer said:

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747Ag said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Zobel said:

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I'd be more interested in why Protestants have abandoned the discipline of fasting altogether than a deliberate misunderstanding of Ash Wednesday.

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Protestant here. I fast one day per week, year round.

My wife once did a 40 day water fast.

Who says we don't fast?

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More often than not... it's not a thing in those traditions. And the times it is a thing, it's more often than not someone doing on their own rather than congregation as a whole.

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I'll bet there are lot of Catholics who don't do it. You just think they do.

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Sick burn? It's a requirement for us unlike most traditions out there. Whether or not people around me in the pews are observant is a different question.

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I'm not the one pointing out the "flaws" of other Christian beliefs. You should do what the Holy Spirit leads you to do.

Zobel said:

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KingofHazor said:

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It's funny that many church traditions claim that all others are "divisive" yet insist that all must be as they are. Isn't that the essence of divisiveness? Aren't those that do so guilty of seeing the speck in their brother's eye and ignoring the beam in their own?

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Schism is a question of historical inquiry. The matter of division comes down to who set up opposing ecclesiastical jurisdictions and has nothing to do with claims of divisiveness.

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Can you explain more clearly; I don't understand? Also, you appear to be stating a conclusion rather than the reasons leading to that conclusion. Could you provide those reasons?

Zobel said:

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I'd be more interested in why Protestants have abandoned the discipline of fasting altogether than a deliberate misunderstanding of Ash Wednesday.

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I've always wondered why Mardis Gras was seen as an occasion to sin.

A church is, definitionally, a bishop with his flock. That's the smallest unit of the catholic church. Catholic means "according to the whole" so this is the part which is according to the whole. This understanding goes all the way back to the early second century.

That church may break communion with another church for various reasons. When that happens, there is a break, which is bad, but there technically isn't schism. I know the terms are kind of thrown around but just like heresy has a specific usage that gets abused a lot, schism does as well. While you have a break, you still only have one church, according to the whole.

What makes a schism is when, after a break in communion, one church then goes to the next step of denying that the other bishop has authority by setting up an opposing bishop in his jurisdiction. Now you have two churches. That is a schism. So the matter of division, schism, is not that there is a disagreement or even a break, but in the act of denying authority by setting up opposing churches. This isn't a question of right or wrong, then - just when and where. Matter of historical inquiry.

Rex Racer said:

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747Ag said:

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Rex Racer said:

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747Ag said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Zobel said:

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I'd be more interested in why Protestants have abandoned the discipline of fasting altogether than a deliberate misunderstanding of Ash Wednesday.

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Protestant here. I fast one day per week, year round.

My wife once did a 40 day water fast.

Who says we don't fast?

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More often than not... it's not a thing in those traditions. And the times it is a thing, it's more often than not someone doing on their own rather than congregation as a whole.

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I'll bet there are lot of Catholics who don't do it. You just think they do.

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Sick burn? It's a requirement for us unlike most traditions out there. Whether or not people around me in the pews are observant is a different question.

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I'm not the one pointing out the "flaws" of other Christian beliefs. You should do what the Holy Spirit leads you to do.

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Flaws.. well I actually never said that nor intended that, but I guess if you want to go there, sure we can. Those that do fasting correctly (as far as I know) are the Orthodox and Catholics of eastern rites. The vast majority of Catholics (Latins, as we are sometimes called) we encounter (if not all) have only been obligated to fast two days out of the year since the late 60s or early 70s. Weak sauce. Such a practice, when properly disposed, is aimed at our sanctification and the salvation of our souls. We used to do more, but someone thought we didn't need that anymore. Personally, I would like to do more but I'm weak and rely on such obligations to help me grow closer to Him.

Congrats on the fasting