https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45115659/pete-rose-shoeless-joe-jackson-players-reinstated-mlb

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Manfred ruled that MLB's punishment of banned individuals ends upon their deaths


Earlier this year, President Donald Trump announced he planned to posthumously pardon Rose. "Over the next few weeks I will be signing a complete PARDON of Pete Rose, who shouldn't have been gambling on baseball, but only bet on HIS TEAM WINNING," Trump wrote on social media Feb. 28.

Trump didn't say what the pardon would cover. Rose served five months in federal prison for submitting falsified tax returns in 1990.
During an Oval Office meeting on April 16, Trump and Manfred discussed Rose's posthumous petition for reinstatement, among other topics. Manfred later declined to discuss details of their conversation.
On Tuesday, Manfred called Trump, who was on a state trip in Saudi Arabia, and Jane Forbes Clark, chairperson of the board of the Hall of Fame, about his ruling, multiple sources told ESPN.
John Dowd, the former Justice Department attorney who conducted MLB's Rose investigation, told ESPN in 2020 he believes Jackson belongs in the Hall, but recently said he disagrees with Manfred's decision on Rose. "There's no difference with him being dead -- it's about behavior, conduct and reputation," Dowd said.

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I always thought politics kept several players out of the Hall of Fame. It will be interesting to see if this is met with protests from "purists" who believe they should never get in. Other sports figures have been caught for gambling in the past and were not punished like Rose and Shoeless Joe. Wonder if any corporate sponsors will pull their dollars from MLB over this?

I got no problem with Rose betting on his own team to win.

The problem with Pete Rose was the quality of the people he had around him to take care of these sorts of things.

But, having been around minor celebs in LA,, it's common to have weirdos on the fringe to take care of things that the celeb wouldn't want to be caught doing themselves. Whether that's girls or drugs, etc.

jja79 said:

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Friend played in MLB. There's a sign at the door of every locker room that says anyone caught gambling on baseball will be banned from baseball. Rose knew the consequences and chose to risk it.

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Don't care. He deserves it. Particularly when thinking of how many players who used performance enhancing drugs are in.

Today's pro sports (college too) are all based on gambling. How can anyone deny Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Reggie Bush or even Johnny Manziel their just accolades. These were just men ahead of their time in more ways than one.

The final punishment was to wait until he had died.

FireAg said:

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PETE SHOULD BE IN THE HALL FOR WHAT HE DID AS A PLAYER ON THE FIELD…

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CHARLIE ****ING HUSTLE.....nuff said!

Shoeless Joe and Bucky Weaver were the classic guilt by association.

Someone recently said, If I was Ohtani, I would have noticed all that money missing from my account that he had no idea was used for betting on baseball.

HollywoodBQ said:

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I got no problem with Rose betting on his own team to win.

The problem with Pete Rose was the quality of the people he had around him to take care of these sorts of things.

But, having been around minor celebs in LA,, it's common to have weirdos on the fringe to take care of things that the celeb wouldn't want to be caught doing themselves. Whether that's girls or drugs, etc.

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The problem is he changed his story on what and who he bet on so many times there is absolutely no trust in anything he said.

Also, even if you're betting on your own team you can always shave points to make sure you don't cover the spread. Lots of ways to "bet on your team" as a manager and use inside info to manipulate the outcomes.

That is the reason why any behavior that could indicate manipulation of the game should be an automatic ban.

Perid.

That being said at this point in my life I realize that most sports are manipulated by referees, bettors, hell even the players themselves.

You think that the Mavs traded away doncik in such a ****ty fashion for peanuts and then miraculously got the first round pick in the lottery with a 1% chance of being drawn?

Ha!

It's all sports entertainment.

jja79 said:

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Friend played in MLB. There's a sign at the door of every locker room that says anyone caught gambling on baseball will be banned from baseball. Rose knew the consequences and chose to risk it.

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Nobody cares that he got banned from baseball. The issue is not being put in the HOF for what he did as a player.

HollywoodBQ said:

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But, having been around minor celebs in LA,, it's common to have weirdos on the fringe to take care of things that the celeb wouldn't want to be caught doing themselves. Whether that's girls or drugs, etc.

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And thats how Ohtani got away with gambling on baseball.

rocky the dog said:

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Screw it. Almost everyone gambles here and there. We had betting pools while I was at A&M. I played poker on Friday nights with some grad students I had met, with real money. So sue me.

Pete Rose should be in the HOF for how he played on the field.

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How many HOF have failed a drug test? Or took something that was banned but couldn't get caught and they all knew it. Probably half of players in the last decade? More? Longer? I'm sympathetic to the keep them out, but keep out the roid era guys too then. Rose should be in. I'm less sympathetic to the Black Sox who rigged a game. That I totally get it.

Longevity and production ...

17 time All-Star
3-time batting champion. (batting average)
Career .303 hitter
Most Valuable Player in 1973, top five vote-getter in 1968, 1969, 1975, and 1976.
Highest modern-day career fielding percentage for a right fielder at 99.14%
Most career plate appearances 15,890
Most career hits 4,256
Most career times on base 5,929
Most career games played 3,562
Only player to play at least 500 games at five different positions 1B (939), LF (671), 3B (634), 2B (628), RF (595)
Most seasons of 200+ hits - 10 (shared)
Most consecutive seasons of 100 or more hits 23

Being banned from baseball is the reason he wasn't eligible for the HOF.

jja79 said:

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Being banned from baseball is the reason he wasn't eligible for the HOF.

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This is false, a lifetime ban from future employment and MLB games/functions and the permanently ineligible list for the HOF are two different things. Moreover, there are players that have been in the HOF and banned from the game simultaneously.

Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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But, having been around minor celebs in LA,, it's common to have weirdos on the fringe to take care of things that the celeb wouldn't want to be caught doing themselves. Whether that's girls or drugs, etc.

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And thats how Ohtani got away with gambling on baseball.

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Exactly. Guess he gets a pass because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Pete Rose deserves to be in the Hall of Fame for his on-field performance.

jja79 said:

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Friend played in MLB. There's a sign at the door of every locker room that says anyone caught gambling on baseball will be banned from baseball. Rose knew the consequences and chose to risk it.

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And now his life sentence has been served. Baseball's hit king should be in the Hall.

The Hall of Fame disqualified banned players in 1991. The HOF and MLB are different things. Mantle and Mays were banned for schilling for legal casinos but that was resolved.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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jja79 said:

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Friend played in MLB. There's a sign at the door of every locker room that says anyone caught gambling on baseball will be banned from baseball. Rose knew the consequences and chose to risk it.

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Nobody cares that he got banned from baseball. The issue is not being put in the HOF for what he did as a player.

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Which is the HOF's decision and nothing to do with MLB. All MLB said is that he can't be a part of their game anymore, and rightfully so. They did not dictate his HOF banishment. The ineligible list specifically dictates (1) can't be employed by MLB or affiliated minors (2) can't be an agent for MLB players and (3) can't be in a position that could influence play. Nothing about the HOF. That was the HOF's decision.

All of the angst against MLB over the years has been so dumb. All they said is a degenerate gambler who bet on his own teams games can't be in their league. Sure seems appropriate to me.

usmcbrooks said:

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Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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But, having been around minor celebs in LA,, it's common to have weirdos on the fringe to take care of things that the celeb wouldn't want to be caught doing themselves. Whether that's girls or drugs, etc.

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And thats how Ohtani got away with gambling on baseball.

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Exactly. Guess he gets a pass because of being the face of the game and playing for the dodgers.

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fify.

Really as simple as that. Give me an average middle reliever or bench player doing the exact same thing and they'd be kicked to the curb the second the facts got out. But not a superstar who brings in more money than anyone else in the game today. And yes, he can hide behind the language barrier and feign ignorance. He's literally untouchable. Just like in politics, different rules are applied depending on who you are or what team you play for.

Oh, and f the dodgers.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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jja79 said:

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Being banned from baseball is the reason he wasn't eligible for the HOF.

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This is false, a lifetime ban from future employment and MLB games/functions and the permanently ineligible list for the HOF are two different things. Moreover, there are players that have been in the HOF and banned from the game simultaneously.

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Players that are on baseball's ineligible list ARE INDEED ineligible for induction into the HOF.

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Feb. 8, 1991: Persons on baseball's ineligible list cannot be eligible candidates.

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BBWAA VOTING RULES HISTORY

There is no "lifetime" or, for that matter, "permanent" ban on either MLB or the Hall. As we saw today, Rose's ban was lifted, thus it wasn't permanent. The commissioner has discretion to lift the ban of a living person as he did with Willie Mays and Mickie Mantle.

jja79 said:

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The Hall of Fame disqualified banned players in 1991.

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Which they did in cahoots with MLB specifically to keep Pete Rose out. Fay Vincent pressured the HOF to pass the ban prior to Rose's first year of eligibility (1991).

DannyDuberstein said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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jja79 said:

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Friend played in MLB. There's a sign at the door of every locker room that says anyone caught gambling on baseball will be banned from baseball. Rose knew the consequences and chose to risk it.

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Nobody cares that he got banned from baseball. The issue is not being put in the HOF for what he did as a player.

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Which is the HOF's decision and nothing to do with MLB. All MLB said is that he can't be a part of their game anymore, and rightfully so. They did not dictate his HOF banishment. The ineligible list specifically dictates (1) can't be employed by MLB or affiliated minors (2) can't be an agent for MLB players and (3) can't be in a position that could influence play. Nothing about the HOF. That was the HOF's decision.

All of the angst against MLB over the years has been so dumb. All they said is a degenerate gambler who bet on his own teams games can't be in their league. Sure seems appropriate to me.

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The baseball hall of fame's endowment is funded by a relatively small number of individuals and families. Fay Vincent got a handful of them to say the money would dry up if the HOF committee didn't keep Rose out. The rule outlawing all banned players from the HOF was a thinly veiled facade to keep one specific player out under pressure from Major League Baseball.

Rose should have been ineligible to buy a ticket to the HOF, much less be inducted as a member.

Just an Ag said:

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Longevity and production ...

17 time All-Star
3-time batting champion. (batting average)
Career .303 hitter
Most Valuable Player in 1973, top five vote-getter in 1968, 1969, 1975, and 1976.
Highest modern-day career fielding percentage for a right fielder at 99.14%
Most career plate appearances 15,890
Most career hits 4,256
Most career times on base 5,929
Most career games played 3,562
Only player to play at least 500 games at five different positions 1B (939), LF (671), 3B (634), 2B (628), RF (595)
Most seasons of 200+ hits - 10 (shared)
Most consecutive seasons of 100 or more hits 23

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Yessir...scoreboard...

Lol whatever. Fay Vincent got run out of his job nearly 35 years ago. The rule is in place because a lot of the writers can't stand Rose and happily implemented the rule, and it stayed that way for the same reason. They conveniently used mlb as cover. Manfred has been commish for 10 years and has been consistent in exactly what I posted - 2 different bodies with what should be 2 different decisions and criteria. He's been adamant about the fact that Rose being on the ineligible list to participate in the game should not have anything to do with whether he's HOF eligible

The group of writers is a petulant little group with long memories. That is why he's out

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John Dowd, the former Justice Department attorney who conducted MLB's Rose investigation, told ESPN in 2020 he believes Jackson belongs in the Hall, but recently said he disagrees with Manfred's decision on Rose. "There's no difference with him being dead -- it's about behavior, conduct and reputation,"

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One guy helps throw a World Series and should be in the HOF. The other guy bets on his own team to win and should not be in the HOF??

A lifetime ban, taken literally, would end when the person is no longer alive.

So, the important question in all of this is, what does this mean for that Griner guy's potential ban in WNBA?