rocky the dog said:

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Meanwhile, in the United States...

---

When there is pushback - there's money involved.
Q: Who's making a profit from all the drug running?

I once worked closely with a colleague who was based on Singapore. I asked her about the lifestyle and standard of living there and she said it was the greatest she had ever experienced (she was from London but was well travelled). She described the government as a "benevolent dictatorship" and said that for people who follow the rules it was a great place to be. Not so good for those who don't follow the rules - remember the kid who was caned for stealing road signs.

Killing someone for having weed is dumb and immoral.

aTmAg said:

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As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

Just don't get arrested for Outrage Of Modesty.

Apparently it's serious enough it's got it's own sign outside the Four Floors...

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

Are you okay with that, even if we raise your taxes to pay for his medical care and life-long disability?

I understand the argument for... as long as it doesn't affect me then do w/e you want argument. The problem is that it falls apart the second it touches reality. Drug legalization massively negatively impacts aspects of modern life. It's a lot easier to ignore the country but enter even the suburbs and you have issues. From the raised crime rates, impaired driving, and since we subsidize homelessness, health care, and all kinds of other things it massively raises the rates at which we have to be taxed for the additional people that come into the system.

And people will compare it to alcohol, the impact from lost production from weed and the incredible addictive qualities of the harder stuff, the costs and outs are significantly higher. There might, maybe, be some small number of people who can benefit from THC as a non-narcotic based pain reliever or from a psychedelic (as pushed on Rogan and elsewhere), but this is not something that is broadly helpful to society.

It isn't a tabletop exercise of what is best for you individually as well as the whole society. The proscription of drugs is something long accepted by our society and the proliferation of things like weed and other drugs has massively damaged our entire society. We've never done enough to root it out. You don't want to go after an individual user? Fine. But any large scale transportation or distributor should be wiped out.

I don't want to drag some dude with an aquarium tank grow house for his own strain to the gallows but somebody bringing in kilos of anything should be dropped.

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

I've never taken any drugs either, and I used to be a "adults can do to themselves what they want" guy too.

But then I thought about it more. Imagine if Budweiser spiked their beer with something that made it 100x more addictive and didn't tell you, making it very likely to turn you into an alcoholic. Is that not an infringement of your rights?

Principal Uncertainty said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

Are you okay with that, even if we raise your taxes to pay for his medical care and life-long disability?

---

Taxation is theft, so I'm not advocating for me/you paying for his medical anything.

That doesn't change what I said being true. Adulthood is a series of decisions that affect the rest of said adulthood. Govt is the least capable entity to make those decisions for any of us.

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

I've never taken any drugs either, and I used to be a "adults can do to themselves what they want" guy too.

But then I thought about it more. Imagine if Budweiser spiked their beer with something that made it 100x more addictive and didn't tell you, making it very likely to turn you into an alcoholic. Is that not an infringement of your rights?

---

If that were to happen, then sue Budweiser. One of the few actual powers granted to govt. But you still made a decision to use something that has zero nutritional, or positive, effect on your body. As you should be able to do.

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

I've never taken any drugs either, and I used to be a "adults can do to themselves what they want" guy too.

But then I thought about it more. Imagine if Budweiser spiked their beer with something that made it 100x more addictive and didn't tell you, making it very likely to turn you into an alcoholic. Is that not an infringement of your rights?

---

If that were to happen, then sue Budweiser. One of the few actual powers granted to govt. But you still made a decision to use something that has zero nutritional, or positive, effect on your body. As you should be able to do.

---

What if they taint it with poison that kills me outright? Sue them?

BigRobSA said:

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Principal Uncertainty said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

Are you okay with that, even if we raise your taxes to pay for his medical care and life-long disability?

---

Taxation is theft, so I'm not advocating for me/you paying for his medical anything.

That doesn't change what I said being true. Adulthood is a series of decisions that affect the rest of said adulthood. Govt is the least capable entity to make those decisions for any of us.

---

Libertarianism which I align with somewhat, falls apart in a society of 350MM degenerates who fail to or simply won't take personal responsibly for their actions.

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

I've never taken any drugs either, and I used to be a "adults can do to themselves what they want" guy too.

But then I thought about it more. Imagine if Budweiser spiked their beer with something that made it 100x more addictive and didn't tell you, making it very likely to turn you into an alcoholic. Is that not an infringement of your rights?

---

If that were to happen, then sue Budweiser. One of the few actual powers granted to govt. But you still made a decision to use something that has zero nutritional, or positive, effect on your body. As you should be able to do.

---

What if they taint it with poison that kills me outright? Sue them?

---

Your descendants can, you're pushing up daisies.

Again, though, you chose (as an adult, I'm assuming) to partake in something that has zero positives to it even when not given a deadly poisonous additive.

Same as me, a diabetic, buying and chowing on a Cheesecake Factory cheesecake.

BlackGold said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

Principal Uncertainty said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

Are you okay with that, even if we raise your taxes to pay for his medical care and life-long disability?

---

Taxation is theft, so I'm not advocating for me/you paying for his medical anything.

That doesn't change what I said being true. Adulthood is a series of decisions that affect the rest of said adulthood. Govt is the least capable entity to make those decisions for any of us.

---

Libertarianism which I align with somewhat, falls apart in a society of 350MM degenerates who fail to or simply won't take personal responsibly for their actions.

---

Only because we let liberals, in both parties, ruin things with their versions of big govt.

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

I've never taken any drugs either, and I used to be a "adults can do to themselves what they want" guy too.

But then I thought about it more. Imagine if Budweiser spiked their beer with something that made it 100x more addictive and didn't tell you, making it very likely to turn you into an alcoholic. Is that not an infringement of your rights?

---

If that were to happen, then sue Budweiser. One of the few actual powers granted to govt. But you still made a decision to use something that has zero nutritional, or positive, effect on your body. As you should be able to do.

---

What if they taint it with poison that kills me outright? Sue them?

---

Your descendants can, you're pushing up daisies.

Again, though, you chose (as an adult, I'm assuming) to partake in something that has zero positives to it even when not given a deadly poisonous additive.

Same as me, a diabetic, buying and chowing on a Cheesecake Factory cheesecake.

---

The difference is that you KNOW what you are getting when you ask for a cheesecake.

I'm talking about the case where your Cheesecake Factory waiter adds cyanide to your food without your knowledge.



That is flat out murder, dude. Not a civil action.

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

I've never taken any drugs either, and I used to be a "adults can do to themselves what they want" guy too.

But then I thought about it more. Imagine if Budweiser spiked their beer with something that made it 100x more addictive and didn't tell you, making it very likely to turn you into an alcoholic. Is that not an infringement of your rights?

---

If that were to happen, then sue Budweiser. One of the few actual powers granted to govt. But you still made a decision to use something that has zero nutritional, or positive, effect on your body. As you should be able to do.

---

What if they taint it with poison that kills me outright? Sue them?

---

I see somebody has never heard of Big Tobacco. You should look it up, big, big, BIG lawsuit settlements, and guess what, they're still able to sell the death sticks.

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

I've never taken any drugs either, and I used to be a "adults can do to themselves what they want" guy too.

But then I thought about it more. Imagine if Budweiser spiked their beer with something that made it 100x more addictive and didn't tell you, making it very likely to turn you into an alcoholic. Is that not an infringement of your rights?

---

If that were to happen, then sue Budweiser. One of the few actual powers granted to govt. But you still made a decision to use something that has zero nutritional, or positive, effect on your body. As you should be able to do.

---

What if they taint it with poison that kills me outright? Sue them?

---

Your descendants can, you're pushing up daisies.

Again, though, you chose (as an adult, I'm assuming) to partake in something that has zero positives to it even when not given a deadly poisonous additive.

Same as me, a diabetic, buying and chowing on a Cheesecake Factory cheesecake.

---

The difference is that you KNOW what you are getting when you ask for a cheesecake.

I'm talking about the case where your Cheesecake Factory waiter adds cyanide to your food without your knowledge.



That is flat out murder, dude. Not a civil action.

---

Ok. Then go after drug dealers that do that. I'm fine with that. None of that is going to change my mind on my belief in legalization of all drugs. Freedom is its own reward. Dealers would be dumb to poison their product and killing off their clientele.

Lived there for 3 years. Wonderful place and a favorite of my family's. VERY safe....kids walked to school.

Back when all the Sunday papers had a human interest magazine in every issue, one Sunday the Straight Times (the national newspaper in Singapore) had the the state "executioner" as the human interest story in the paper. He was called on 2 to 3 times a year to actually execute someone...the other times it was caning for most other offenses. There just wasn't much crime in the way you think of everything that goes on in an American city. Anyway, the Executioner said his job was "to inflict as much pain as possible" on those being punished so they wouldn't do it again. Simple and effective.

BigRobSA said:

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BlackGold said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

Principal Uncertainty said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

Are you okay with that, even if we raise your taxes to pay for his medical care and life-long disability?

---

Taxation is theft, so I'm not advocating for me/you paying for his medical anything.

That doesn't change what I said being true. Adulthood is a series of decisions that affect the rest of said adulthood. Govt is the least capable entity to make those decisions for any of us.

---

Libertarianism which I align with somewhat, falls apart in a society of 350MM degenerates who fail to or simply won't take personal responsibly for their actions.

---

Only because we let liberals, in both parties, ruin things with their versions of big govt.

---

That's not the root cause. Partly, sure, but I think it's more that we've moved or been pushed into a Godless amoral society with no underlying foundation or understanding of what being a good human means.

japantiger said:

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Lived there for 3 years. Wonderful place and a favorite of my family's. VERY safe....kids walked to school.

Back when all the Sunday papers had a human interest magazine in every issue, one Sunday the Straight Times (the national newspaper in Singapore) had the the state "executioner" as the human interest story in the paper. He was called on 2 to 3 times a year to actually execute someone...the other times it was caning for most other offenses. There just wasn't much crime in the way you think of everything that goes on in an American city. Anyway, the Executioner said his job was "to inflict as much pain as possible" on those being punished so they wouldn't do it again. Simple and effective.

---

Lived there for 5 years myself and it was great. Going back in April and taking my wife there, for her first time, on our honeymoon. We couldn't be more excited.

BlackGold said:

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Lived there for 5 years myself and it was great. Going back in April and taking my wife there, for her first time, on our honeymoon. We couldn't be more excited.

---

Have you even tried?

BlackGold said:

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japantiger said:

---

Lived there for 3 years. Wonderful place and a favorite of my family's. VERY safe....kids walked to school.

Back when all the Sunday papers had a human interest magazine in every issue, one Sunday the Straight Times (the national newspaper in Singapore) had the the state "executioner" as the human interest story in the paper. He was called on 2 to 3 times a year to actually execute someone...the other times it was caning for most other offenses. There just wasn't much crime in the way you think of everything that goes on in an American city. Anyway, the Executioner said his job was "to inflict as much pain as possible" on those being punished so they wouldn't do it again. Simple and effective.

---

Lived there for 5 years myself and it was great. Going back in April and taking my wife there, for her first time, on our honeymoon. We couldn't be more excited.

---

Show her the festivities at the Orchard Towers...

BigRobSA said:

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BlackGold said:

---

Lived there for 5 years myself and it was great. Going back in April and taking my wife there, for her first time, on our honeymoon. We couldn't be more excited.

---

Have you even tried?

---

Haha maybe that was a little hyperbolic. We also have some other stops on the trip over in that area that maybe add a little to the excitement factor. It will be a good change of pace from the rat race happening over here.

jacketman03 said:

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aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

As a little L libertarian, I used to be pro-drug legalization. Now my stance is more nuanced.

---

I'm a little "L" libertarian-minded person, fiscally conservative and socially leave-me/mine-the-****-alone, and I'm still pro-legalization of all drugs, for adults.

I've never taken/indulged in any illicit drugs and don't drink alcohol, never have, but as an adult I should be allowed to inject automotive coolant into my veins if I so chose.

Singapore can do what they want, though. I never ever even wanted to go there, anyway. But they're a sovereign nation and can have whatever rules they so choose. No different than my beliefs on Russia when they held that dude from the WNBA for a bit, for weed juice.

---

I've never taken any drugs either, and I used to be a "adults can do to themselves what they want" guy too.

But then I thought about it more. Imagine if Budweiser spiked their beer with something that made it 100x more addictive and didn't tell you, making it very likely to turn you into an alcoholic. Is that not an infringement of your rights?

---

If that were to happen, then sue Budweiser. One of the few actual powers granted to govt. But you still made a decision to use something that has zero nutritional, or positive, effect on your body. As you should be able to do.

---

What if they taint it with poison that kills me outright? Sue them?

---

I see somebody has never heard of Big Tobacco. You should look it up, big, big, BIG lawsuit settlements, and guess what, they're still able to sell the death sticks.

---

The difference there is that people know damn well the result of tobacco in 1999. That was like suing Ford because you drove your car off a cliff. It was nothing more than a government money grab. Such a lawsuit would have made sense in 1960 when customers were unaware of the danger and tobacco companies were.

With heroine, people think they could just try it a few times and not get addicted. And dealers certainly push that narrative (especially to kids).

Ag with kids said:

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BlackGold said:

---

japantiger said:

---

Lived there for 3 years. Wonderful place and a favorite of my family's. VERY safe....kids walked to school.

Back when all the Sunday papers had a human interest magazine in every issue, one Sunday the Straight Times (the national newspaper in Singapore) had the the state "executioner" as the human interest story in the paper. He was called on 2 to 3 times a year to actually execute someone...the other times it was caning for most other offenses. There just wasn't much crime in the way you think of everything that goes on in an American city. Anyway, the Executioner said his job was "to inflict as much pain as possible" on those being punished so they wouldn't do it again. Simple and effective.

---

Lived there for 5 years myself and it was great. Going back in April and taking my wife there, for her first time, on our honeymoon. We couldn't be more excited.

---

Show her the festivities at the Orchard Towers...

---

I don't want any trouble on my honeymoon!