Ellis Wyatt said:

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The problem with that is that you'd end up lying on top of Hillary. Nobody wants that.

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If done right, it would just be the elbow…and you could cut that off, if needed.

**** Hillary Clinton

I think the evidence is pretty clear that CECOT tortures prisoners. I am against torture as a form of incarceration. Bukele's statement

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"If you are convinced that torture is taking place at CECOT, El Salvador is ready to cooperate fully.

We are willing to release our entire prison population (including all gang leaders and all those described as "political prisoners") to any country willing to receive them. The only condition is straightforward: it must be everyone.

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Adding a condition that no one will go for isn't exactly a clean acknowledgement that El Salvador isn't torturing prisoners as a matter of state policy.

Interviews from former prisoners who have been there, including podcasters and media types looking in. Routine beatings, malnutrition, sensory deprivation chambers, sodomizing from guard batons. It's a false choice that either El Salvador has to torture prisoners or have unabated MS-13 terrorism. You can incarcerate people for life that deserve to be incarcerated for life without beating the **** out of them as a routine standard of care.

Every super max prison in the US should be turned into a work camp, in my opinion. We wouldn't need illegals to come in and do the menial, low paying, work. Turn these lifers into productive members of society, instead of having them sit around and do nothing, on the tax payers dime, for decades.

Malibu said:

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I think the evidence is pretty clear that CECOT tortures prisoners. I am against torture as a form of incarceration. Bukele's statement

Quote:

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"If you are convinced that torture is taking place at CECOT, El Salvador is ready to cooperate fully.

We are willing to release our entire prison population (including all gang leaders and all those described as "political prisoners") to any country willing to receive them. The only condition is straightforward: it must be everyone.

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Adding a condition that no one will go for isn't exactly a clean acknowledgement that El Salvador isn't torturing prisoners as a matter of state policy.

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Taking all of them would ensure that a complete and thorough analysis of every prisoner's situation could be undertaken. Surely Hillary would want that, right?

HC told us the super predators are American black men who should be brought to heel. and not her circle or I guess, ms-13.

If they are murderers and gang members its sortof a meh. But its concerning if there any there whose only crime was the illegal crossing, but otherwise innocent.

BlackGold said:

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Every super max prison in the US should be turned into a work camp, in my opinion. We wouldn't need illegals to come in and do the menial, low paying, work. Turn these lifers into productive members of society, instead of having them sit around and do nothing, on the tax payers dime, for decades.

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lol... good luck with that... plus I don't want those fools anywhere near my vegetables

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podcasters and media types...

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...are not evidence.

HTH

agent-maroon said:

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Quote:

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podcasters and media types...

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...are not evidence.

HTH

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Shouldn't be. I have expressed alarm at how news articles (which are hearsay) have crept into our legal system, even in criminal trials Some judges have even taken judicial notice of same. Hell, we have heard Sotomayor and KBJ have quoted them during oral arguments.

Not the way I was taught about what is and what is not admissible evidence, nor proper for judicial notice.

akm91 said:

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Quote:

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I think the evidence is pretty clear that CECOT tortures prisoners.

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What evidence?

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Funny how libs just turn a blind eye to all the innocent people these prisoners tortured.

Yeah it is a TV show but these are the people largely, in CECOT.



Gang members and cartels are brutal to each other and others. Colombian necktie ring any bells? Putting burning tires around live people's necks? (Winnie Mandela's South Africa version of a necktie.)

Allowed to keep clean, bodily functions accommodated, food, water. Not torture,

Several months back, I started a thread about how well Axis POWS were treated during WWII. Prisoners were amazed at our abundance, how much and how good the food was, their encouragement of artistic pursuits, learning English, other lessons.

Sadly, I had reason to review details of a prison riot in Santa Fe NM back in the early 80s. It was not the guards, it was the inmates from rival factions than were burning people alive in horrific manner.

fulshearAg96 said:

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BlackGold said:

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Every super max prison in the US should be turned into a work camp, in my opinion. We wouldn't need illegals to come in and do the menial, low paying, work. Turn these lifers into productive members of society, instead of having them sit around and do nothing, on the tax payers dime, for decades.

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lol... good luck with that... plus I don't want those fools anywhere near my vegetables

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Of course we'd never do it because we're soft as hell… that four time rapist and the home invasion guy who murdered the occupants deserve to be treated with dignity, after all.

Let me guess you believe all prisoners when they say they are innocent. Like a prisoner is going to say there is no torture going on in CECOT. If they said no, they wouldn't get any sympathy or attention from those of you who fall for that stuff without doubting them. Hell, I'd lie about getting tortured if that could get me out of jail and so would you and most of us on the board. Do whatever it takes to survive and get out of hell. Why are you so gullible?

Lol owned

Also if they get tortured, that is fine by me. They are rabid animals. If you left any one of them in a room with you, your wife, and daughters they would beat you to near death, make you watch as they rape your family and then skin all of you alive. That isn't human. That is pure evil and animalistic. They won't care if you empathize with them and are their white savior.

So just to be clear: prisoner testimony is invalid, and independent eyewitness reporting is invalid. I guess if it doesn't come straight from Bukele's mouth that "yes, we torture people", we can just dismiss that.

The Unforgiven said:

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Let me guess you believe all prisoners when they say they are innocent. Like a prisoner is going to say there is no torture going on in CECOT. If they said no, they wouldn't get any sympathy or attention from those of you who fall for that stuff without doubting them. Hell, I'd lie about getting tortured if that could get me out of jail and so would you and most of us on the board. Do whatever it takes to survive and get out of hell. Why are you so gullible?

Also if they get tortured, that is fine by me. They are rabid animals. If you left any one of them in a room with you, your wife, and daughters they would beat you to near death, make you watch as they rape your family and then skin all of you alive. That isn't human. That is pure evil and animalistic. They won't care if you empathize with them and are their white savior.

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There's a of bad faith reasoning here, but my position is simple. Guilty people can be incarcerated for life. The fact that someone committed a horrendous crime(s) is not a justification for systematic torture by the state.

Here is the difference between you and me. I think there is a possibility that they may get tortured there, but I will give the benefit of doubt to bukele. You believe 100% that they are being tortured by the word of people that would kill you for a good laugh. Also there is no such thing as an independent eye witness in situations like these. They all have an agenda that benefits them not the truth. You don't doubt these prisoners and not so independent eyewitnesses.

Also, I see these South American gang members as soulless demons. Humanity and their souls left them a long time ago. They see civilized people as their chew toys to tear apart. A large majority of good people won't lose any sleep even if these demons are tortured. We all have more important things in life to worry about than what happens to pure evil.

Malibu said:

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So just to be clear: prisoner testimony is invalid, and independent eyewitness reporting is invalid. I guess if it doesn't come straight from Bukele's mouth that "yes, we torture people", we can just dismiss that.

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"eye witnesses " lol

Malibu said:

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So just to be clear: prisoner testimony is invalid, and independent eyewitness reporting is invalid. I guess if it doesn't come straight from Bukele's mouth that "yes, we torture people", we can just dismiss that.

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So did these "eye witness" reporters capture these horrific events on video? Audio? Did they actually witness anything besides a prisoner describing these events which may or may not have happened?

Spoiler - they weren't tortured and then allowed to talk to anybody from outside the prison. Nobody is stupid enough to let that happen.

Malibu said:

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So just to be clear: prisoner testimony is invalid, and independent eyewitness reporting is invalid. I guess if it doesn't come straight from Bukele's mouth that "yes, we torture people", we can just dismiss that.

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I'm not high on Bukele, but he brings up a good point. Where was the outrage when these thugs and criminals were torturing the country? That said, the people voted for it.

The bigger issue to the average Salvadoran isn't whether the criminals are receiving better rights than law abiding citizens. It's why did their government bother to take in Venezuelans when it wasn't their responsibility. Two separate issues.