Civil Forfeiture:

The federal government has broad civil forfeiture rights. These rights are often abused by the government, but should be used by the Feds to do something productive.

• They are efficient - the government doesn't have to get a criminal conviction to seize your property, they can bring charges against the property. The property has no constitutional protections. If the government can show probable cause that the property was acquired through fraud, that is enough to seize it. Once the government has possession of it, the only way to get it back is to sue the government. If it turns out they took it illegally, you have a claim with the Federal Court of Claims, not to get your property back, but to get just compensation for the taking of your property.
• The rights are there - there is a special unit in the Department of Treasury that this is the only thing that they do.
• The capabilities are there - the DOT unit that does this uses it all the time to seize property from drug dealers, and the mom's and uncle's and cousins of drug dealers who got wealthy from their family member's illegal activities. Time to turn that attention somewhere else.

They should use it first against the Somali fraud in Minn:

• The people pulling off this fraud aren't criminal masterminds. Their learing on how to do this didn't come from MIT. They likely left the door wide open on how to trace the funds.
• The recovery could be very significant, on the order of $billions.
• It would likely be supported by most of the US. No one is going to listen to the dingbats that are saying it isn't fair that Somolians are getting their ill-gotten assets stolen from them.

They can then turn this on the rest of the federal corruption:

• After the Somoli fraud, time to start looking at NGOs. Will be a tightrope, because I am sure that people from both sides of the isle are guilty. But, once you start rolling down that road, it will be tough to stop.

I know I live in a dream world, and none of this would happen, but it would be interesting. Maybe we can get John Grisham out of retirement and he could write an entertaining book.

Let's be real they only use this to harass us citizens. They let illegals collect welfare and food stamps do you think they will actually do anything? Trump was given a mandate to deport all illegals this is all a dog and pony show. No one not even Trump is serious about stopping it.

Wait?! You think the Somali fraudsters still have the funds they stole? What the hell do you think is going to be seized? It's gone. They didn't buy yachts and mansions. That's what Democrat politicians do with their ill gotten gains. Foreigners send that money home as soon as possible.

LOYAL AG said:

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Wait?! You think the Somali fraudsters still have the funds they stole? What the hell do you think is going to be seized? It's gone. They didn't buy yachts and mansions. That's what Democrat politicians do with their ill gotten gains. Foreigners send that money home as soon as possible.

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Exactly. Highly unlikely they own much of any worth in the US to take away. Find the fraudsters, send them packing and anyone else involved.

That for sure would never be abused or backfire

Pinochet said:

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…What does OP want? Daddy government to take all his money and call it forfeiture?

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Our money, comrade

You guys are so short-sided:

1) I guarantee you that there are plenty of US assets to seize from Somali criminals. The Somali criminals that put this together are not masterminds. They were basically given this money by the federal government. People would be surprised at how stupid criminals can be. For every Stringer Bell you have in the criminal world, you have 10 Tuco Salamanca's.

2) There are a lot more assets to seize if/when you turn this towards broader federal corruption. How many homes in the DC Metro area are ripe for the picking from the administrators of illegal NGOs that funneled money from the federal government into the hands of domestic lib terrorists and into the coffers of the democratic party?

3) Once this thing gets pointed at the federal government, its wings are going to get clipped. The only way to get rid of civil forfeiture is to turn the barrel of the gun at the organization that approved it. There is no way that Washington will allow this practice to stand. I have no idea why anyone would defend the rights of the employees of government funded NGOs against the legal use of over-reaching federal powers.

4) If we aren't willing to use the weapons of our enemies against them, we are fighting with one hand tied behind our backs.

Sq 17 said:

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But if it is Trump that is committing Federal over reach then I am good with it

And people wonder why MAGA is called a cult

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Um, you only need to read the few post above yours to completely dispel your ill informed assessment. Truly, if you honestly look at the thoughts and actions and distension of both parties, the left checks far more cultist boxes than the right. Even with that, I'd be reluctant to label them as a "cult", that's just a lazy quip, they're just ignorant sheep.

There's a lot of MAGA "usual suspects" on here that are being quiet right now. When we see them come in and blast OP that will mean something.

Government can already recover fraud funds and implement fines and punishment. I am always concerned about forfeiture law because it has been abused by corrupt government or simply lazy and careless government in the past.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Government can already recover fraud funds and implement fines and punishment. I am always concerned about forfeiture law because it has been abused by corrupt government or simply lazy and careless government in the past.

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Me too.

Why not use that tool against the people that allow the tool to exist?

AtomicActuator said:

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There's a lot of MAGA "usual suspects" on here that are being quiet right now. When we see them come in and blast OP that will mean something.

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Because it is a difficult position.

I am saying we should use a tool that gets abused against the people that allow the tool to exist.

That makes everyone uncomfortable.

It's a purposefully controversial topic.

I think this is a great idea.

BusterAg said:

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It's a purposefully controversial topic

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Funny, when non-MAGA post things like that, it gets called trolling and doesn't stay up long.

Hell to the naw. Let's give government more power to abuse a system they abuse already. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Quote:

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MAGA aren't conservatives.

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And not even Republicans.

How I wish that were true. But no. They do in fact own the party now.

Furlock Bones said:

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**** no. Civil asset forfeiture is government criminality. Some of yall "conservatives" have absolutely lost your damned minds.

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"The best way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it good and hard." Seize so much from illegals and "Riot Inc" that there's a massive upswell against it and congress kills it. Win-win.

BusterAg said:

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You guys are so short-sided:

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No, we aren't.

We've seen what civil asset forfeiture laws do. They're terrible for America and need to go away. If the government want's someone's property, they should get a court order. They should never be able to take first and then make you prove the legitimacy. That goes completely against our justice system.

Did you not watch any of the reporting last year of the DEA harassing people in airports stealing their money? Hard no.

Sq 17 said:

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But if it is Trump that is committing Federal over reach then I am good with it

And people wonder why MAGA is called a cult

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WTF are you talking about? Person after person on here is saying it's an awful idea and they don't support it.

Most of the ultra MAGAs here are staying away from this thread.

It was posted at 7:30 in the morning when most "MAGA" are getting ready to drive in to work and be productive citizens of society. Sheesh. Give it time.

I'm not going to call them out by name, but they are posting all morning on other threads.

AtomicActuator said:

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BusterAg said:

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It's a purposefully controversial topic

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Funny, when non-MAGA post things like that, it gets called trolling and doesn't stay up long.

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Hard to call this a troll.

It is controversial because it is thought-provoking, not because it is inflammatory.

And, I have ben bitten by the banhammer for doing something like that before.

AtomicActuator said:

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BusterAg said:

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It's a purposefully controversial topic

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Funny, when non-MAGA post things like that, it gets called trolling and doesn't stay up long.

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Are you going to actually debate the ****ing topic or just troll for hypocrisy?

Get Off My Lawn said:

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Furlock Bones said:

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**** no. Civil asset forfeiture is government criminality. Some of yall "conservatives" have absolutely lost your damned minds.

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"The best way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it good and hard against the interests most important to grifting law-makers." Seize so much from illegals and "Riot Inc" that there's a massive upswell against it and congress kills it. Win-win.

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FIFY