Judicial corruption and incompetence in Georgia

6,867 Views | 75 Replies | Last: 5 days ago by Im Gipper
Zapata23
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After the Fannie Willis fiasco a couple of years ago I have been paying more attention to the judiciary in the State of Georgia, and I understand it's not the only judicial cesspool around but watching the courts there turns out to be closer to an SNL skit than reality.

Here's one for starters just bizarre watching this unfold. These crazy brief filings and the dumbfounded responses when they're questioned




Here's a link to the complete argument


It’s never too late
Zapata23
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I mean seriously, so what can be the answer here?

Paralegals and interns have been doing my work for years but now I used AI and did not check its work?

Really what are the chances that an attorney who is this sloppy, negligent, or dishonest enough to turn in such bad work is going to completely own this without obfuscation or blame-shifting? I'm thinking the chances are pretty good she's not going to own this alone.
It’s never too late
Zapata23
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Well the Georgia Supreme Court issued an order directing counsel for the state to file a sworn affidavit providing a "complete explanation" for the filings that included non-existent cases and other errors.




It’s never too late
Rocky Rider
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AG
It looks like she was given a free pass in school/life to this point but now things are changing and she must work to the same standards as everyone else. This won't end well for her because she's likely not prepared to work in a world where her poor work will be ignored.
Queso1
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AG
Doubtful anything serious will happen to her. Some people go through life being the tallest midget. In another thread I addressed the lack of seriousness in our leaders, but this is a problem across society.

I'm not sure if "seriousness" is the right word. Maybe it's that so many people just don't care anymore. I cannot put my finger on it. There's just something missing. It's like the nurses that do the dance videos. Or the politicians ****ing all the time. There's no pride. No philosophy. No attention to style. From the moron store clerk on their phone during customer interactions to this clown - something is off.

It's cultural rot and I am having a difficult time to really define it. It's like I see it, but I can't develop my thoughts on it.

I think one big issue is doing stuff solely for the money or the result. My philosophy is to do stuff for the sake of doing it, not the money…not the perfect product. Those things come from doing it right, but they shouldn't be the point.

I try to mentor my younger employees on this. I tell them, the system is set up where we really don't have to get out of bed in the morning. Why do we do it? Because there is virtue in work. There is virtue in focusing on your work. Phoning it in using AI really irritates something deep down in my life philosophy.
Red Fishing Ag93
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AG
Unbelievable
BMX Bandit
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Until a court really hits an attorney really hard for this, it's going to keep happening more and more

One Louder
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AG
BMX Bandit said:

Until a court really hits an attorney really hard for this, it's going to keep happening more and more




She should be disbarred. What she did was inexcusable.
Im Gipper
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It's always the "paralegal did it"

I'd love to see one these judges say "well let's bring that paralegal down here and find out"



I'm Gipper
ts5641
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Yikes! Good on the justice for discovering that. She's got to be a typical DEI hire. She seems completely unprepared.
ts5641
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Dirty_Mike&the_boys said:

I mean seriously, so what can be the answer here?

Paralegals and interns have been doing my work for years but now I used AI and did not check its work?

Really what are the chances that an attorney who is this sloppy, negligent, or dishonest enough to turn in such bad work is going to completely own this without obfuscation or blame-shifting? I'm thinking the chances are pretty good she's not going to own this alone.

She's a black female. Absolutely nothing will happen to her but some poor white intern will lose their job.
Im Gipper
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As if the AI part of the story wasn't bad enough, go read about this case!

Railroaded by DEI-AI-SJW losers!!




I'm Gipper
BMX Bandit
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Seeing that back story, this is worse than I thought.

It's not just some dumb lawyer trying to lazily help out a client.


This is someone using the full force of government to keep someone in jail through fake law citations.


This not only warrants harsh sanctions and disbarment, but DoJ should look into civil rights violations here by this prosecutor.
Aggie Jurist
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AG
The Appellant clearly had incompetent counsel at trial - and frankly, an incompetent judge. The case screams reversal- coupled with a DA's office that as so sloppy as to cite non-existing cases in both the lower court's order (which it wrote but the judge signed and DS counsel failed to challenge) and its appellate brief.

We have allowed some of the worst attorneys in the US to become judges and DAs. The quality of legal work at this level is embarrassing.
One Louder
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ts5641 said:

Yikes! Good on the justice for discovering that. She's got to be a typical DEI hire. She seems completely unprepared.


When she was flipping through the pages, you could almost see the digital "buffering" symbol above her head spinning...slowly...
CanyonAg77
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So, how likely is it that these fake cases came from Google or AI, and no one checked them?
Im Gipper
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CanyonAg77 said:

So, how likely is it that these fake cases came from Google or AI, and no one checked them?


It's 100% guaranteed it came from AI

I'm Gipper
Aggie Jurist
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100% AI - and frankly, her appellate counsel and trial counsel (since it was cited in the lower Court's order) should also have caught it.
BTKAG97
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Im Gipper said:

As if the AI part of the story wasn't bad enough, go read about this case!

Railroaded by DEI-AI-SJW losers!!
Mind giving a synopsis? Those embedded tweets are basically useless.
Im Gipper
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How are the useless? Click on them and read. Here is the first one:


I'm Gipper
flown-the-coop
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I think we have seen plenty of evidence the legal bar in Georgia, literally and figuratively, seems to be a perpetual luau.
Queso1
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Just go to the airport and you'll understand exactly how Atlanta is run
BTKAG97
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Im Gipper said:

How are the useless? Click on them and read.
The point is to not have to click on a third party link that opens a third party app when a poster doesnt use that third party app.

A brief synopsis is far more useful and easier to consume.

You stated the defendant was railroaded but the embedded tweets you provided dont support what you stated. I'm curious what other things the prosecution, police, etc did to railroad the defendant other than citing fictional cases?
Im Gipper
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Here you go Luddite:

The alleged victim in this case, Kenneth Herring, blew through a red light and slammed into a semi-trailer, hard enough to make it tilt. An off-duty officer who approached him noticed that he seemed impaired.

/1

Hannah Payne witnessed the accident. And she waited around for 20 minutes, just in case the officer needed her to be a witness. But eventually, Herring's behavior grew more erratic.

He started mumbling to himself. Pacing. The officer told him not to go back into his car. /2
But Herring ignored the officer. Instead he got back into his car, which was visibly disabled, leaking oil and hissing, and "floored it" into traffic.

The officer asked Hannah Payne to get his tag number. She jumped into her Jeep and followed Herring. /3
The traffic was pretty heavy. But Hannah was on the phone with 911 the entire time. The operator told her to be "safe." "Don't chase." She knew how dangerous someone fleeing from an accident could be. Hannah didn't.

/4
When Herring got into a right turn, Payne pulled over in front of him. She told 911 that she was stopping in front of him so he could not cause another accident and hurt someone. /5
When Hannah approached Herring, she showed him that she was on the phone with 911. She told him that he needed to get out of his car and wait for police, or return back to the scene of the accident. But she made a mistake. /6
Hannah got too close to Herring, because she didn't realize that he was a dangerous man. His car was full of needles and baggies, and he had a knife in the back seat.

The State claimed these all contained insulin, but failed to test them. /7
Herring grabbed Hannah by the neck. He said "I got something for you, *****." He slapped the phone out of her hand, where it fell to the pavement. At some point, while he was grabbing her, he accelerated into her Jeep. /8
At first, Hannah was screaming "stop, stop, stop." But eventually, she pulled her firearm from its holster. She said she would shoot him. /9
Herring started grabbing for the weapon. The physical evidence shows in the struggle, he gave Hannah a black eye, scratched her neck, and tore her shirt. There was no evidence that he ever tried to push her away from the car. He only wanted to drag her in. /10
Eventually, the gun went off, either because Hannah fired it or Herring had twisted it from her grasp. The video shows that the second this happened, Payne stumbled backwards. She was free. /11
But at trial, Hannah's attorney was not aware that he could request instructions on citizen's arrest or defense of others.

And that was fatal, because if Hannah Payne was committing a felony when she approached Herring, she could not be justified.

/12
As the State explained to the jury, even if Herring was deliberately trying to kill Hannah to escape justice, if she had "no right" to stop him, that was permissible.

The jury didn't know one central point of law. /13
Under the citizen's arrest and defense of others statutes, you can use reasonable force to stop an impaired motorist from driving recklessly.

That would authorize the "false imprisonment" that began the encounter. /14
But in the absence of those instructions, the jury lacked the necessary tools to acquit. Hannah could not get a fair trial even if everyone on that jury believed her account. /15
So the alleged misconduct in this case is relevant to show how Clayton County conducts itself in trials and appeals. It's relevant to show the care that went into denying Hannah's motion for new trial.

But it's secondary. /16
the real issue is that Hannah Payne wanted to protect her community from a dangerous person. She acted in good faith. And when she defended herself from an unrprovoked attack, her trial counsel's mistake denied her due process. /17
It's for this reason that we fervently hope Hannah will get a new trial. She does not deserve to spend the rest of her life in prison. /18

I'm Gipper
Ag87H2O
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Im Gipper said:


It's for this reason that we fervently hope Hannah will get a new trial. She does not deserve to spend the rest of her life in prison. /18


She doesn't deserve to spend another day in prison.

This attorney should be disbarred and spend a few years there though.
reineraggie09
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Queso1 said:

Doubtful anything serious will happen to her. Some people go through life being the tallest midget. In another thread I addressed the lack of seriousness in our leaders, but this is a problem across society.

I'm not sure if "seriousness" is the right word. Maybe it's that so many people just don't care anymore. I cannot put my finger on it. There's just something missing. It's like the nurses that do the dance videos. Or the politicians ****ing all the time. There's no pride. No philosophy. No attention to style. From the moron store clerk on their phone during customer interactions to this clown - something is off.

It's cultural rot and I am having a difficult time to really define it. It's like I see it, but I can't develop my thoughts on it.

I think one big issue is doing stuff solely for the money or the result. My philosophy is to do stuff for the sake of doing it, not the money…not the perfect product. Those things come from doing it right, but they shouldn't be the point.

I try to mentor my younger employees on this. I tell them, the system is set up where we really don't have to get out of bed in the morning. Why do we do it? Because there is virtue in work. There is virtue in focusing on your work. Phoning it in using AI really irritates something deep down in my life philosophy.


It's a choice between being famous and being good at what you do. I see it all the time in my profession. The people that have social media videos where they make up words and diagnosis are viewed as "experts" even though they are just making stuff up. The masses worship these practitioners because they are famous. The logic goes that because they are famous, they must know what they are doing. It's actually the opposite. It's conversation I have with students all of the time. My heart warms because usually, once they get it they see it everywhere. Just had a former student this week call me after visiting a "famous" practitioner. They were horrified by the stuff going on at that place and yet that practitioner has so much business that they turn people away.
Jack Squat 83
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Would any of you Democrats on here care to defend DEI or affirmative action being used for advancement? It has nothing to do with race or color either so don't go there. The victims from incompetence (in ANY profession) come in every color too.

Take a stab at it, I'll wait.
I don't think you know me.
BigRobSA
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One Louder said:

BMX Bandit said:

Until a court really hits an attorney really hard for this, it's going to keep happening more and more




She should be disbarred. What she did was inexcusable.


Who among us hasn't cited fabricated cases or quotes that never happened!?
Im Gipper
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Epidemic!!


I'm Gipper
BusterAg
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Queso1 said:



I try to mentor my younger employees on this. I tell them, the system is set up where we really don't have to get out of bed in the morning. Why do we do it? Because there is virtue in work. There is virtue in focusing on your work. Phoning it in using AI really irritates something deep down in my life philosophy.

I kind of have some sympathy for people who get caught by AI hallucinations. I have seen too many to trust AI as anything other than wikipedia. If the AI can't provide a source, I don't trust the answer.

Most of the time, the people that I see using AI are actually some of the hardest workers. They are incorporating new technology to try and be better. And it does make you better, most of the time. But you just can't trust it.

The problem is that 98% of the time, the AI is right, and would actually do a better job than a junior analyst would. And, with that 2% of the time that they are wrong, 90% of the time the mistake is not that big of a deal and it goes unnoticed. So errors like this with bad consequences are something like 0.2% (2/1000) to occur, and, if you are paying attention, you will catch them.

But there are zero junior analysts that would simply make up cases out of thin air to make their job easier. That is like a 1 in 10 billion type event to occur, because the consequences are very, very, very bad.

The trouble with AI right now is that it is optimized to give an answer. The worst thing that an AI can say is "I don't know" or "I'm not really sure" or "all the available information about this is complete speculation".

It doesn't understand that some errors have consequences that are way, way worse than other errors. The discussion about computers not being able to do this well goes all the way back to Asimov with I, Robot.

Until AIs are taught which types of errors are the most dangerous, and prioritize not making bad errors first, they will not be able to be trusted. Not sure how long it will be until we can figure that out, but, we are not there yet. I do think we will eventually get there, the only question is when.

BusterAg
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It would be nice for the American Bar Association to take a firm stance on the ethics of relying on AI without checking the work, and recommending disbarment for anyone that does.
aggiehawg
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After all of these years, I have no further comment other than this.

I had wished I was wrong and not seeing the whole picture. That's my comment.
91AggieLawyer
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BusterAg said:

It would be nice for the American Bar Association to take a firm stance on the ethics of relying on AI without checking the work, and recommending disbarment for anyone that does.


The ABA is too busy holding fundraisers for democrat politicians and those that rail against Trump. You asking them to do something like this is, well, troubling. At least, as far as they're concerned.

Its one thing to have AI attempt to do your research. I don't. But then again, I've been doing legal research at a fairly high level for 30 years. I don't even trust stuff I get from other sources I know are credible -- I check everything out. With that said, how much trouble is it to confirm a citation actually EXISTS? All Texas bar members, and I assume those with most other states, have access to some legal database to at least check a cite. Also, why are you quoting something that you haven't verified? The LAST thing I want is my opponent's response (or reply) brief/motion to contain the phrase, "____ citation does not exist/does not state what he argues/does not contain the quotation alleged..."

As far as AI in general, I went up against some pro se's a few weeks ago that obviously used AI for case law support for their position. They cited cases that did exist, were on point, but supported MY position! They had no idea what they were doing. Sadly, I think that's where we're headed with some lawyers.
BadMoonRisin
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how god dang dumb do we have to get before we see this as a problem?
Colonel Nonreg
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Queso1 said:

Doubtful anything serious will happen to her. Some people go through life being the tallest midget. In another thread I addressed the lack of seriousness in our leaders, but this is a problem across society.

I'm not sure if "seriousness" is the right word. Maybe it's that so many people just don't care anymore. I cannot put my finger on it. There's just something missing. It's like the nurses that do the dance videos. Or the politicians ****ing all the time. There's no pride. No philosophy. No attention to style. From the moron store clerk on their phone during customer interactions to this clown - something is off.

It's cultural rot and I am having a difficult time to really define it. It's like I see it, but I can't develop my thoughts on it.

I think one big issue is doing stuff solely for the money or the result. My philosophy is to do stuff for the sake of doing it, not the money…not the perfect product. Those things come from doing it right, but they shouldn't be the point.

I try to mentor my younger employees on this. I tell them, the system is set up where we really don't have to get out of bed in the morning. Why do we do it? Because there is virtue in work. There is virtue in focusing on your work. Phoning it in using AI really irritates something deep down in my life philosophy.


A million blue stars for you, sir.
“Indecision is the cornerstone of defeat”
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