Pivotal Point in North American Geopolitics [San Jacinto Day]

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milner79
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... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.
LMCane
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milner79 said:

... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.

LOL

I guarantee there are about .7% of all Americans who even know what San Jacinto was.

to think that changed the American landscape is looking at the world through glasses made in Dallas
bobbranco
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LMCane said:

milner79 said:

... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.

LOL

I guarantee there are about .7% of all Americans who even know what San Jacinto was.

to think that changed the American landscape is looking at the world through glasses made in Dallas

Boo this man!
BMX Bandit
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LMCane said:

milner79 said:

... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.

LOL

I guarantee there are about .7% of all Americans who even know what San Jacinto was.

to think that changed the American landscape is looking at the world through glasses made in Dallas

your yankeeness is showing.


if you don't understand how Texas being a part of the United States rather than mexico shaped the world, you need to educate yourself. one of the world's leaders in oil, but no big deal which country it sits in.

if Texas doesn't defeat mexico, it never becomes a state.

aggiehawg
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AG
Few people outside of Texas knew what Juneteenth meant until fairly recently either.
YouBet
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aggiehawg said:

Few people outside of Texas knew what Juneteenth meant until fairly recently either.

And it still doesn't mean what national politicians co-opted for.
Ag87H2O
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LMCane said:

milner79 said:

... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.

LOL

I guarantee there are about .7% of all Americans who even know what San Jacinto was.

to think that changed the American landscape is looking at the world through glasses made in Dallas



They may not remember the details of San Jacinto, but they know this flag.

All over the world.
milner79
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aggiehawg said:

Few people outside of Texas knew what Juneteenth meant until fairly recently either.

True. When it was appropriated by the bi-coastal left in their post-Floyd rush to claim anything they thought could bolster their cause du jour.

(ETA - they really still don't know what it meant or means in Texas.)
Phatbob
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LMCane said:

milner79 said:

... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.

LOL

I guarantee there are about .7% of all Americans who even know what San Jacinto was.

to think that changed the American landscape is looking at the world through glasses made in Dallas

Pfhhh, they have great fajitas and a margarita special on Tuesdays... who doesn't know that???
Deerdude
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I introduce myself as being from Texas when traveling abroad. Nobody questions where that is.
CrackerJackAg
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BMX Bandit said:

LMCane said:

milner79 said:

... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.

LOL

I guarantee there are about .7% of all Americans who even know what San Jacinto was.

to think that changed the American landscape is looking at the world through glasses made in Dallas

your yankeeness is showing.


if you don't understand how Texas being a part of the United States rather than mexico shaped the world, you need to educate yourself. one of the world's leaders in oil, but no big deal which country it sits in.

if Texas doesn't defeat mexico, it never becomes a state.




Honestly Texas & Mexico would have been a serious power.

Mexico would be majority European with am American Style Constitution.

I'm not sure that we wouldn't hold everything up to California right now.

In the grand scheme that might have been better.
Ag87H2O
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This reminded me of something Houston Coach Bum Phillips wrote years ago. Long, but worth the read -

WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A TEXAN
by Bum Phillips

Dear Friends,

Last year, I wrote a small piece about what it means to me to be a Texan. My friends know it means about damned near everything. Anyway, this fella asked me to reprint what I'd wrote and I didn't have it. So I set out to think about rewriting something. I considered writing about all the great things I love about Texas. There are way too many things to list. I can't even begin to do it justice.
Lemme let you in on my short list.

It starts with The Window at Big Bend, which in and of itself is proof of God. It goes to Lake Sam Rayburn where my Grandad taught me more about life than fishin, and enough about fishin to last a lifetime. I can talk about Tyler, and Longview, and Odessa and Cisco, and Abilene and Poteet and every place in between.
Every little part of Texas feels special. Every person who ever flew the Lone Star thinks of Bandera or Victoria or Manor or wherever they call "home" as the best little part of the best state.
So I got to thinkin about it, and here's what I really want to say.

Last year, I talked about all the great places and great heroes who make Texas what it is. I talked about Willie and Waylon and Michael Dell and Michael DeBakey and my Dad and LBJ and Denton Cooley. I talked about everybody that came to mind. It took me sitting here tonight reading this stack of emails and thinkin about where I've been and what I've done since the last time I wrote on this occasion to remind me what it is about Texas that is really great.

You see, this last month or so I finally went to Europe for the first time. I hadn't ever been and didn't too much want to. But you know all my damned friends are always talking about "the time they went to Europe." So, I finally went. It was a hell of a trip to be sure. All they did when they saw me was say the same thing, before they'd ever met me. "Hey cowboy, we love Texas." I guess the hat tipped em off.
But let me tell you what, they all came up with a smile on their faces. You know why? They knew for damned sure that I was gonna be nice to em. They knew it cause they knew I was from Texas. They knew something that hadn't even hit me. They knew Texans, even though they'd never met one.

That's when it occurred to me. Do you know what is great about Texas? Do you know why when my friend Beverly and I were trekking across country to see 15 baseball games we got sick and had to come home after 8? Do you know why every time I cross the border I say, "Lord, please don't let me die in_____"? Do you know why children in Japan can look at a picture of the great State and know exactly what it is about the same time they can tell a rhombus from a trapezoid?
I can tell you that right quick. You.

The same spirit that made 186 men cross that line in the sand in San Antonio damned near 165 years ago is still in you today. Why else would my friend send me William Barrett Travis' plea for help in an email just a week ago, or why would Charles Stanfield ask me to reprint a Texas Independence column from a year ago? What would make my friend Elizabeth say, "I don't know if I can marry a man who doesn't love Texas like I do?" Why in the hell are 1,000 people coming to my house this weekend to celebrate a holiday for what used to be a nation that is now a state?

Because the spirit that made that nation is the spirit that burned in every person who founded this great place we call Texas, and they passed it on through blood or sweat to everyone of us.
You see that spirit that made Texas what it is alive in all of us, even if we can't stand next to a cannon to prove it, and it's our responsibility to keep that fire burning. Every person who ever put a"Native Texan" or an "I wasn't born in Texas but I got here as fast as I could" sticker on his car understands.

Anyone who ever hung a map of Texas on their wall or flew a Lone Star flag on their porch knows what I mean. My Dad's buddy Bill has an old saying. He says that some people were forged of a hotter fire. Well, that's what it is to be Texan. To be forged of a hotter fire. To know that part of Colorado was Texas. That part of New Mexico was Texas. That part of Oklahoma was Texas. Yep. Talk all you want. Part of what you got was what we gave you. To look at a picture of Idaho or Istanbul and say, "what the Hell is that?" when you know that anyone in Idaho or Istanbul who sees a picture of Texas knows damned good and well what it is. It isn't the shape, it isn't the state, it's the state of mind.

You're what makes Texas. The fact that you would take 15 minutes out of your day to read this, because that's what Texas means to you, that's what makes Texas what it is. The fact that when you see the guy in front of you litter you honk and think, "Sonofa*****. Littering on MY highway."

When was the last time you went to a person's house in New York, and you saw a big map of New York on their wall? That was never. When did you ever drive through Oklahoma and see their flag waving on four businesses in a row? Can you even tell me what the flag in Louisiana looks like? I damned sure can't. But I bet my ass you can't drive 20 minutes from your house and not see a business that has a big Texas flag as part of its logo. If you haven't done business with someone called AllTex something or Lone Star somebody or other, or Texas such and such, you hadn't lived here for too long.

When you ask a man from New York what he is, he'll say a stockbroker, or an accountant, or an ad exec. When you ask a woman from California what she is, she'll tell you her last name or her major. Hell, either of em might say "I'm a republican," or they might be a democrat. When you ask a Texan what they are, before they say, "I'm a Methodist," or "I'm a lawyer," or "I'm a Smith," they tell you they're a Texan.
I got nothing against all those other places, and Lord knows they've probably got some fine folks, but in your gut, you know it just like I do, Texas is just a little different.

So tomorrow when you drive down the road and you see a person broken down on the side of the road, stop and help. When you are in a bar in California, buy a Californian a drink and tell him it's for Texas Independence Day. Remind the person in the cube next to you that he wouldn't be here enjoying this if it weren't for Sam Houston, and if he or she doesn't know the story, tell them.
When William Barrett Travis wrote in 1836 that he would never surrender and he would have Victory or Death, what he was really saying was that he and his men were forged of a hotter fire. They weren't your average everyday men.

Well, that is what it means to be a Texan. It meant it then, and that's why it means it today. It means just what all those people North of the Red River accuse us of thinking it means. It means there's no mountain that we can't climb.

It means that we can swim the Gulf in the winter. It means that Earl Campbell ran harder, and Houston is bigger, and Dallas is richer, and Alpine is hotter and Stevie Ray was smoother and God vacations in Texas. It means that come Hell or high water, when the chips are down and the Good Lord is watching, we're Texans by damned, and just like in 1836, that counts for something.

So, for today at least, when your chance comes around, go out and prove it. It's true because we believe it's true. If you are sitting wondering what the Hell I'm talking about, this ain't for you. But if the first thing you are going to do when the Good Lord calls your number is find the men who sat in that tiny mission in San Antonio and shake their hands, then you're the reason I wrote this night, and this is for you.

So, until next time you hear from me, God Bless Texas!!
MAROON
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Phatbob said:

LMCane said:

milner79 said:

... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.

LOL

I guarantee there are about .7% of all Americans who even know what San Jacinto was.

to think that changed the American landscape is looking at the world through glasses made in Dallas

Pfhhh, they have great fajitas and a margarita special on Tuesdays... who doesn't know that???

I was gonna say - go out and slam some Tex-Mex today because without San Jacinto we would not have it.
What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
milner79
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CrackerJackAg said:

BMX Bandit said:

LMCane said:

milner79 said:

... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.

LOL

I guarantee there are about .7% of all Americans who even know what San Jacinto was.

to think that changed the American landscape is looking at the world through glasses made in Dallas

your yankeeness is showing.


if you don't understand how Texas being a part of the United States rather than mexico shaped the world, you need to educate yourself. one of the world's leaders in oil, but no big deal which country it sits in.

if Texas doesn't defeat mexico, it never becomes a state.




Honestly Texas & Mexico would have been a serious power.

Mexico would be majority European with am American Style Constitution.

I'm not sure that we wouldn't hold everything up to California right now.

In the grand scheme that might have been better.

Reminder: Dictator Santa Anna had abolished the Constitution of 1824 in favor of a centralist (i.e. dictatorial) government. Contemplating anything that might have happened had he not been overthrown at San Jacinto is pure speculation. Mexico and it's member states were in upheaval over the move toward centralization.
If my choices are citizenship with Mexico or citizenship with United States, even with it many government-driven flaws, I choose United States.
With gratitude to Sam Houston and his fellow Texas patriots!
CrackerJackAg
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milner79 said:

CrackerJackAg said:

BMX Bandit said:

LMCane said:

milner79 said:

... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.

LOL

I guarantee there are about .7% of all Americans who even know what San Jacinto was.

to think that changed the American landscape is looking at the world through glasses made in Dallas

your yankeeness is showing.


if you don't understand how Texas being a part of the United States rather than mexico shaped the world, you need to educate yourself. one of the world's leaders in oil, but no big deal which country it sits in.

if Texas doesn't defeat mexico, it never becomes a state.




Honestly Texas & Mexico would have been a serious power.

Mexico would be majority European with am American Style Constitution.

I'm not sure that we wouldn't hold everything up to California right now.

In the grand scheme that might have been better.

Reminder: Dictator Santa Anna had abolished the Constitution of 1824 in favor of a centralist (i.e. dictatorial) government. Contemplating anything that might have happened had he not been overthrown at San Jacinto is pure speculation. Mexico and it's member states were in upheaval over the move toward centralization.
If my choices are citizenship with Mexico or citizenship with United States, even with it many government-driven flaws, I choose United States.
With gratitude to Sam Houston and his fellow Texas patriots!


I feel like my statement about the constitution sorry if answered the whole Santa Anna thing.

Obviously an alternative history scenario.
PaulsBunions
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Now we need TEXIT part 2
Sid Farkas
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Texas' sensibility and politics will eventually be called upon to save America.

If people don't know now, they will.
BusterAg
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aggiehawg said:

Few people outside of Texas knew what Juneteenth meant until fairly recently either.

It was the celebration of a bunch of slaves in Galveston getting their freedom many months after the civil war was over.

Nothing of note happened on June 19th on a national level.
BusterAg
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AG
Love telling my Irish immigrant co-workers about the legend of Emily West.
surfandturfsbisa96
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Simplified version-

1.Texas Wins Independence at SJ
2. Treaty of Velasco implies the Rio Grande as the border between ROT and MX
3. U.S. annexes Texas
4. U.S. and Mexico fight over border (and other things)
5. U.S. wins, gets Mexican Cession

Rest is history.
YouBet
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We are moving to New Mexico soon. I'll be flying our Texas flag at the house just to declare to our neighbors that I'm there to reclaim what is ours. Our neighbors on the adjacent property are apparently part timers from Berkeley.

This should be fun.
Urban Ag
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Texas was incompatible with Mexico. Revolution or not, it was destined to become part of the US. Way too much coastline and simply too much land sitting between the SE states and the west coast. Too much border with existing and future American territory. Mostly settled by Europeans much more aligned culturally to the US than Mexico. Mexico never had the ability to hold on to its northern territory.

One way or the other Texas was coming with us.
Jarrin Jay
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Deerdude, same here. I don't say Dallas or USA, I say TEXAS and it always gets a good response whether it's Munich, Buenos Aires, etc.

The primary reason I am such a huge history fan is just thinking of all the singe decisions made by individuals that have helped shape and impact the world we live in today.

Santa Ana never should have besieged and attacked the Alamo, he should have bypassed it and gone after Sam Houston's army. Could then have come back to San Antonio if needed, but it probably would not have been. Major implications, may have all ended the same anyway with the US-Mexico war but who knows.

Probably the biggest blunder is Hitler breaking his compact with Stalin and attacking Russia. Had he not done that and was satisfied with Western Europe, the parts of Central Europe the agreement with Stalin "gave" to Germany and the Nordic countries, it is highly doubtful if the U.S./UK/Allies would have been able to dislodge and defeat the Germans from Western Europe. Not to diminish what the US Army did in WWIi in that theater of war, but really it was Russia that defeated Germany. A substantial amount of troops and equipment was committed to the Russian front.

There are other examples of course but those are the biggest and most recent ones.
Jarrin Jay
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Urban Ag said:

Texas was incompatible with Mexico. Revolution or not, it was destined to become part of the US. Way too much coastline and simply too much land sitting between the SE states and the west coast. Too much border with existing and future American territory. Mostly settled by Europeans much more aligned culturally to the US than Mexico. Mexico never had the ability to hold on to its northern territory.

One way or the other Texas was coming with us.


In the long run I agree but it's not that simple. If you remember and have had correct education the Texas revolution started with the goal of having Texas be an independent Mexican state, not seceding from Mexico.
IIIHorn
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President Trump should have renamed the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of Texas.


( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
Deerdude
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Jarrin Jay said:

Urban Ag said:

Texas was incompatible with Mexico. Revolution or not, it was destined to become part of the US. Way too much coastline and simply too much land sitting between the SE states and the west coast. Too much border with existing and future American territory. Mostly settled by Europeans much more aligned culturally to the US than Mexico. Mexico never had the ability to hold on to its northern territory.

One way or the other Texas was coming with us.


In the long run I agree but it's not that simple. If you remember and have had correct education the Texas revolution started with the goal of having Texas be an independent Mexican state, not seceding from Mexico.


Maybe also that it wasn't as simple as gringos against Mexicans. My family were involved and were Mexican citizens and converted to Catholicism as per requirements to settling in Mexico. The revolution was started by Mexicans against Mexico. It included Anglos, natives, Hispanics, and blacks. Reimaginers gloss over that.
PaulsBunions
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Sid Farkas said:

Texas' sensibility and politics will eventually be called upon to save America.

If people don't know now, they will.


I honestly doubt it, Republicans are fine with importing infinity H1 visa workers to Frisco and Dems are fine with importing infinity migrants through the border, neither type of migrants are incentivized to actually adapt for our culture. The Texan cultural identity is slowly being erased IMO.
PaulsBunions
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Jarrin Jay said:

Deerdude, same here. I don't say Dallas or USA, I say TEXAS and it always gets a good response whether it's Munich, Buenos Aires, etc.

The primary reason I am such a huge history fan is just thinking of all the singe decisions made by individuals that have helped shape and impact the world we live in today.

Santa Ana never should have besieged and attacked the Alamo, he should have bypassed it and gone after Sam Houston's army. Could then have come back to San Antonio if needed, but it probably would not have been. Major implications, may have all ended the same anyway with the US-Mexico war but who knows.

Probably the biggest blunder is Hitler breaking his compact with Stalin and attacking Russia. Had he not done that and was satisfied with Western Europe, the parts of Central Europe the agreement with Stalin "gave" to Germany and the Nordic countries, it is highly doubtful if the U.S./UK/Allies would have been able to dislodge and defeat the Germans from Western Europe. Not to diminish what the US Army did in WWIi in that theater of war, but really it was Russia that defeated Germany. A substantial amount of troops and equipment was committed to the Russian front.

There are other examples of course but those are the biggest and most recent ones.


Since you're a history buff I recommend Herbert Hoover's memoirs Freedom Betrayed, in the early parts he talks about touring Europe right before WW2 and meeting with the leaders of each country.

He also bashes FDR and his gang of Communists which is always fun.
Bondag
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Paris Embassy



London Embassy

BusterAg
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IIIHorn said:

President Trump should have renamed the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of Texas.

I agree.

However, if named for a state, he probably would have picked Florida.
IIIHorn
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BusterAg said:

IIIHorn said:

President Trump should have renamed the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of Texas.

I agree.

However, if named for a state, he probably would have picked Florida.

Probably would not made much of an impact on Trump's decision but, Texas was legitimately a republic. Florida (or maybe part of it) was only a republic for an extremely short time.



( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
IIIHorn
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Deerdude said:

I introduce myself as being from Texas when traveling abroad. Nobody questions where that is.

I have performed an experiment in various places overseas including Spain, Greece, Croatia, Germany and a few other locations: When asked where I'm from, answering 'Texas' results in a very different conversation than answering 'US'.


( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
twk
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Urban Ag said:

Texas was incompatible with Mexico. Revolution or not, it was destined to become part of the US. Way too much coastline and simply too much land sitting between the SE states and the west coast. Too much border with existing and future American territory. Mostly settled by Europeans much more aligned culturally to the US than Mexico. Mexico never had the ability to hold on to its northern territory.

One way or the other Texas was coming with us.

That certainly seems likely in hindsight. But, had Texas not been an independent country, the timing would have been different. Maybe even after a civil war in the US to settle the slavery issue (which was always an issue with the admission of new states).
DT1
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...and with the California gold rush starting in 1848, the Republic of Texas, that included Cali, would be one of the strongest countries in the hemisphere. Who knows...
NE PA Ag
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LMCane said:

milner79 said:

... that changed our landscape forever. Happy San Jacinto Day.

LOL

I guarantee there are about .7% of all Americans who even know what San Jacinto was.

to think that changed the American landscape is looking at the world through glasses made in Dallas


Yes, the vast majority of people, current Texas residents included, haven't heard of the Battle of San Jacinto. That said, without the Texian victory there, does the USA wind up with the two most important economic powerhouses of the 20th century in Texas and California? Maybe, but bottom line, the Battle of San Jacinto definitely made that happen. The United States is a less wealthy and successful country without it.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind." - J.S. Mill
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