We all know grocery stores have been collecting an increasing amount of data on consumers, and I've noticed the stores I shop at have installed digital price labels which allow them to change prices more easily and efficiently, but I have to admit I had not head of "surveillance pricing" until I read this article.

Essentially, surveillance pricing takes all of the data they collect on you and uses it to adjust the prices of products you buy, and if their algorithm thinks you can (or will) pay more for an item, it makes you do exactly that, when other shoppers may pay completely different prices for the same products.

https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/online-shopping/maryland-ban-surveillance-pricing-at-grocery-stores

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Maryland is set to become the first state to ban surveillance pricing as the legislature passed the Protection From Predatory Pricing Act this month. Introduced by Gov. Wes Moore in January, the act aims to prevent grocers and third-party apps like delivery services from using surveillance data and dynamic pricing in Maryland grocery stores. It also imposes steep penalties for businesses caught engaging in these practices, including a first-time fine of up to $10,000.

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Quote:

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At least a dozen states are also considering legislation against dynamic pricing. Pennsylvania recently introduced a bill that would ban retailers from changing prices on essential goods within 24 hours. Other states considering legislation are Arizona, Florida, Hawaii, Oklahoma, Kentucky, Nebraska, Tennessee, Illinois, Vermont, Virginia and Washington. New York passed the Algorithmic Pricing Disclosure Act, requiring businesses to disclose when they use algorithms to set prices.

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Honestly, I don't see how this could be done at a store where the price is right there on the shelf, but it does make sense that it could easily be implemented for people who shop online, which I don't do.

"Scan your item to see your exclusive price! Remember loyalty customers who give us all your data receive the best, most up to date pricing!"

Doesn't need to be regulation other than for them to disclose their practices. People can then decide where to shop.

Well then pay attention to the price on the shelf when you purchase and don't pay more than the marked price.

Where this could be subject to abuse by the stores is all these people that seem to have the store shop for them, which seems to be growing all the time. Those people will get screwed by this.

BQ78 said:

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Well then pay attention to the price on the shelf when you purchase and don't pay more than the marked price.

Where this could be subject to abuse by the stores is all these people that seem to have the store shop for them, which seems to be growing all the time. Those people will get screwed by this.

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Being a lazyass can be expensive!!!!

Ryan the Temp said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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"Scan your item to see your exclusive price! Remember loyalty customers who give us all your data receive the best, most up to date pricing!"

Doesn't need to be regulation other than for them to disclose their practices. People can then decide where to shop.

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Stores like Kroger effectively punish shoppers for not participating in loyalty programs by making them pay more for groceries. The "loyalty price" at Kroger is often the same as the normal everyday price at HEB.

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Doesn't surprise me. My dear wife, an advertising major from LSU, uses her degree as a stay at home housewife to sign up for every program and then uses Instacart to grocery shop cause she's too busy.

I am mostly retired so its hard to complain about being busy cause I sure as **** am not grocery shopping (too much time away from f16), but the level of compliance with giving others your information continues to astound me - to the point I don't even bother about it.

Business opportunity for anyone who wants to offer regular folks alternate personas to anonymize their lives. Losing MAC addresses, VPNs, disguises / camera foilers, etc all wrapped into a service vs DIY.

Have to combat tech with tech.

flown-the-coop said:

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... I sure as **** am not grocery shopping (too much time away from f16), ...

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M'onica!

I work all of the damned time, so I spend a LOT of time away from f16, but I generally hate going to the store/anywhere because that involves being around people. And...I hate people.

How does "surveillance pricing" work when the price is marked on the shelves? Even a digital tag can't show 2 different prices to 2 different people standing shoulder to should in front of an item.

A store would have to remove all pricing from the store, never mail out the weekly ads, and require every customer to use a loyalty card before they could scan an item at the register.

What am I missing?

BTKAG97 said:

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How does "surveillance pricing" work when the price is marked on the shelves? Even a digital tag can't show 2 different prices to 2 different people standing shoulder to should in front of an item.

A store would have to remove all pricing from the store, never mail out the weekly ads, and require every customer to use a loyalty card before they could scan an item at the register.

What am I missing?

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The 2nd post of this thread.

But seriously, electric tags but more likely no tag at all. Hold your phone up or have your Meta Goggins on and it will tell you your bespoke, super exclusive price!

Just the other day a couple of progressive told me it's ok to steal so that's how I make up the cost differences. I also learned to just claim I'm a repressed person so if they confront me about it as I walk out with the stolen merch, I can use that in my favor.

If grocery stores gathered data on customer satisfaction they would find out we want more checkers, shorter lines and bag boys to bag our groceries and cart them out to our cars.

Grocery stores kept prices higher than Sam's or Costco but cut out the extra service we pay for of easy checkout and bagging and help getting it to the car and into the car.

waitwhat? said:

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The technology exists, and is used, to recognize individuals walking around a store and build a profile on them. Amazon has those stores in some airports where you just scan your credit card, pick up whatever you want, and walk out without scanning the items by using dozens/hundreds of cameras in the ceiling to track what you're grabbing.

They could identify you, buy more information on you to determine your income/spending level, and adjust the prices of items on a digital display as you walk up to it without you ever knowing the price was changed. When you walk away, it turns to the "normal" price or adjusts for the next person it sees walking up.

I can't express how much I would detest this becoming normal.

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This already exists at Daikin Park in Houston. Grab what you want, and walk out.

AustinAg2K said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Ryan the Temp said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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"Scan your item to see your exclusive price! Remember loyalty customers who give us all your data receive the best, most up to date pricing!"

Doesn't need to be regulation other than for them to disclose their practices. People can then decide where to shop.

---

Stores like Kroger effectively punish shoppers for not participating in loyalty programs by making them pay more for groceries. The "loyalty price" at Kroger is often the same as the normal everyday price at HEB.

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Doesn't surprise me. My dear wife, an advertising major from LSU, uses her degree as a stay at home housewife to sign up for every program and then uses Instacart to grocery shop cause she's too busy.

I am mostly retired so its hard to complain about being busy cause I sure as **** am not grocery shopping (too much time away from f16), but the level of compliance with giving others your information continues to astound me - to the point I don't even bother about it.

Business opportunity for anyone who wants to offer regular folks alternate personas to anonymize their lives. Losing MAC addresses, VPNs, disguises / camera foilers, etc all wrapped into a service vs DIY.

Have to combat tech with tech.

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You might want to check those Instacart receipts and compare to the store price. They upcharge everything. You're probably paying close to double.

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Even H-E-B up charges you for ordering online. Look at the price you pay online vs in store. I think it's 5% more on every item but you never see it unless you go in the store and look at the price

Whelp look for grocery prices to increase dramatically in Maryland. T&P for shoppers there.

BigRobSA said:

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BQ78 said:

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Well then pay attention to the price on the shelf when you purchase and don't pay more than the marked price.

Where this could be subject to abuse by the stores is all these people that seem to have the store shop for them, which seems to be growing all the time. Those people will get screwed by this.

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Being a lazyass can be expensive!!!!

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Door Dash is a prime example.

AustinAg2K said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Ryan the Temp said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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"Scan your item to see your exclusive price! Remember loyalty customers who give us all your data receive the best, most up to date pricing!"

Doesn't need to be regulation other than for them to disclose their practices. People can then decide where to shop.

---

Stores like Kroger effectively punish shoppers for not participating in loyalty programs by making them pay more for groceries. The "loyalty price" at Kroger is often the same as the normal everyday price at HEB.

---

Doesn't surprise me. My dear wife, an advertising major from LSU, uses her degree as a stay at home housewife to sign up for every program and then uses Instacart to grocery shop cause she's too busy.

I am mostly retired so its hard to complain about being busy cause I sure as **** am not grocery shopping (too much time away from f16), but the level of compliance with giving others your information continues to astound me - to the point I don't even bother about it.

Business opportunity for anyone who wants to offer regular folks alternate personas to anonymize their lives. Losing MAC addresses, VPNs, disguises / camera foilers, etc all wrapped into a service vs DIY.

Have to combat tech with tech.

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You might want to check those Instacart receipts and compare to the store price. They upcharge everything. You're probably paying close to double.

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Oh no doubt I am. But paying double for groceries is substantially cheaper than parting with half my *****

Facts of life and such.

I had no choice but to get the grocery store discount card a few years ago because of the savings. However every time I use it, the clerk addresses me as "Mr. Shackleford".

Also for the times I don't have the card with me, I discovered the phone number consisting of the local area code plus my childhood phone number (long ago disconnected) was in their system. I have literally used this number for twenty years.

Is dynamic pricing problematic when the provider lowers prices or discounts goods and services?

The misunderstood aspect of this is that the product being purchased may be the same, but each consumer is quite different. Consumers differ widely in preferences and price sensitivity. Low-margin retailers guiding customers toward products that better match their needs can benefit both parties.

Now, if the producer is hiding or obfuscating prices from the consumer, well, we call that healthcare

Part of my information on a product is what I see my peers paying for it. If you hide that information from me, I have considerably less to go on to calculate value in the moment.

Ryan the Temp said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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"Scan your item to see your exclusive price! Remember loyalty customers who give us all your data receive the best, most up to date pricing!"

Doesn't need to be regulation other than for them to disclose their practices. People can then decide where to shop.

---

Stores like Kroger effectively punish shoppers for not participating in loyalty programs by making them pay more for groceries. The "loyalty price" at Kroger is often the same as the normal everyday price at HEB.

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There's easily 10 Krogers closer to my house than the HEB I shop at. Pricing is but one reason.

They'll need to be careful with their algorithms. Depending on how things shake out, their prices could conceivably wind up with Equal Protection implications.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Part of my information on a product is what I see my peers paying for it. If you hide that information from me, I have considerably less to go on to calculate value in the moment.

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Define peers. And do you expect to perform such calculus for everything you purchase, all the time? I sincerely doubt it. Having random people's preference curve information likely does nothing for you from a valuation perspective.

normaleagle05 said:

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Ryan the Temp said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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"Scan your item to see your exclusive price! Remember loyalty customers who give us all your data receive the best, most up to date pricing!"

Doesn't need to be regulation other than for them to disclose their practices. People can then decide where to shop.

---

Stores like Kroger effectively punish shoppers for not participating in loyalty programs by making them pay more for groceries. The "loyalty price" at Kroger is often the same as the normal everyday price at HEB.

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There's easily 10 Krogers closer to my house than the HEB I shop at. Pricing is but one reason.

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Geography, current inventory, transportation costs, and recent changes in customer activity all affect local-level retailers. Dynamic pricing can help smooth out inventory flows while also improving allocation efficiency for both retailers and consumers (we already have enough food waste in the country). Along those lines, personalized pricing can better help with price matching and price discovery

I can see the listed price I understand my fellow shoppers are paying currently, because they are posted. In fact, they are often advertised.

I am guessing they idea is shoppers can be given prices that apply to only the individual shopper via digital tags on the shelf?

I am a notorious bargain hunter and value Hunter. If I can't see a price and have some basis for comparison to available similar options then I won't tend to buy unless it is a very cheap consumable commodity or I am in a particular situation where I must purchase immediately and disregard an excessive cost.

I get the feeling pretty soon AI will become one of my best allies in finding bargains, comparing all available prices from multiple sources, looking at what other are paying retail, and even maybe determining what the wholesale cost is for the retailer. The idea of custom pricing for different customers could cause huge blowback when that information is shared publicly.

Someone's algorithm will screw this up and charge someone more that is in a protected class, and that will be the end of it.

Could this be used for demographic based adjustment?

Let's say, hypothetically, a grocery company believes people of a race endure systemic racism, and should get a discount

And yet another race is cloaked in privilege and should pay more, as a reparation, or to offset the discount given to the other group?

Could this happen with the type of dynamic pricing at issue here?

Claude! said:

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They'll need to be careful with their algorithms. Depending on how things shake out, their prices could conceivably wind up with Equal Protection implications.

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In the end this should be the only consideration. Otherwise, let commerce evolve organically.

I am sure Maryland interfering int he free market will lower prices...lol


We will we see follow up threads? I doubt

But without knowing the demand-side information, valuations can be impossible to ascertain.
I have near-zero demand for baby diapers and soft drinks, but I have lots of demand for cheese and beer.

You are frugal, and these algorithms, I assume, will, over time, appreciate your consumer habits and tailor their findings toward your frugal nature. Whereas I am less price-sensitive, and mostly I ****ing loathe shopping at my local Kroger (NW Hwy & Plano, in Dallas), and will pay most any price just to get in and out. By making these algos outright illegal, the government is decreasing opportunities for efficiency.

If Maryland prosecuted shop lifters there would be no need for retailers to employ extreme measures to maintain profitability. Just saying.

Teslag said:

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Odd that blue states and liberals don't like this since it's exactly how they structure their taxation.

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That's also how leftist run universities structure their tuition. They just hide it by having a sky-high published rates and then giving varying amounts of "aid" (discounts).

Fightin_Aggie said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Ryan the Temp said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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"Scan your item to see your exclusive price! Remember loyalty customers who give us all your data receive the best, most up to date pricing!"

Doesn't need to be regulation other than for them to disclose their practices. People can then decide where to shop.

---

Stores like Kroger effectively punish shoppers for not participating in loyalty programs by making them pay more for groceries. The "loyalty price" at Kroger is often the same as the normal everyday price at HEB.

---

Doesn't surprise me. My dear wife, an advertising major from LSU, uses her degree as a stay at home housewife to sign up for every program and then uses Instacart to grocery shop cause she's too busy.

I am mostly retired so its hard to complain about being busy cause I sure as **** am not grocery shopping (too much time away from f16), but the level of compliance with giving others your information continues to astound me - to the point I don't even bother about it.

Business opportunity for anyone who wants to offer regular folks alternate personas to anonymize their lives. Losing MAC addresses, VPNs, disguises / camera foilers, etc all wrapped into a service vs DIY.

Have to combat tech with tech.

---

You might want to check those Instacart receipts and compare to the store price. They upcharge everything. You're probably paying close to double.

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Even H-E-B up charges you for ordering online. Look at the price you pay online vs in store. I think it's 5% more on every item but you never see it unless you go in the store and look at the price

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Lazy people ordering online for pickup. I see these kids every Sunday basically grabbing stuff off the shelf that remotely looks like the picture. You aren't saving time or money. Take the mask off and go get your crap yourself. That time has already passed. Funny to see the kids wearing masks. For what?