Are they unnecessary at this point? Getting ready to do a new build and wondering if I should put one in.

Get a USB one if you really need it.

Wildmen03 said:

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Get a USB one if you really need it.

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That is what I suspected when I the copy of Win 11 came on a USB flash drive. Likely don't need it and can't remember the last time I used one. Thanks.

I still use CD's for what I call Deep storage. Back good I of photos, financial documents, etc. Then I can dump it off my computer (I have an external hard drive as an intermediate step).

I scan a lot of those type documents. Probably wasting a lot of my time since most everything is available on line and with cloud storage.

Thanks for the responses. Honestly, we moved a while back and got rid of blank CD/DVDs so I have nothing other than music and movies. I have decided however to use my old PC case that already has one in it on a new build so I'll keep it there, just in case.

I am degrading over time too.
I'll probably be useless before the CD's

TMoney2007 said:

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IslandAg76 said:

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I still use CD's for what I call Deep storage. Back good I of photos, financial documents, etc. Then I can dump it off my computer (I have an external hard drive as an intermediate step).

I scan a lot of those type documents. Probably wasting a lot of my time since most everything is available on line and with cloud storage.

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Writable media can go bad over time. The dye that they use is organic and can degrade, among other things.

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Was about to say the same thing. I just did a bunch of data conversion / consolidation for a friend of my wife's and the number of unreadable CD-R and DVD-Rs I encountered was shockingly high. Most of the discs ranged in age from 10-15 years. An exception to this rule appears to be M-discs, which are $$$ but use a different material in the dye layer that is supposedly good for 1000 years.

I back up my valuable files (family pics and vids) onto multiple portable hdds then migrate to newer, bigger hdds every 6 or 7 years. My next migration will be to 4 tb ssds.

How do ssds compared to hdds as far as durability and lifespan?

IslandAg76 said:

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I am degrading over time too.
I'll probably be useless before the CD's

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Thanks for the early morning chuckle. Fortunately, my coffee cup was empty at the time.

Philo B 93 said:

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I back up my valuable files (family pics and vids) onto multiple portable hdds then migrate to newer, bigger hdds every 6 or 7 years. My next migration will be to 4 tb ssds.

How do ssds compared to hdds as far as durability and lifespan?

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We have a number of portable and internal hard drives that I need to do this with. I have redundancy in my PC with multiple backup hard drives but should put the portables to better use.

TMoney2007 said:

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IslandAg76 said:

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I still use CD's for what I call Deep storage. Back good I of photos, financial documents, etc. Then I can dump it off my computer (I have an external hard drive as an intermediate step).

I scan a lot of those type documents. Probably wasting a lot of my time since most everything is available on line and with cloud storage.

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Writable media can go bad over time. The dye that they use is organic and can degrade, among other things.

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Some time ago I read about some museum that was using DVDs for archival with the expectation that they would last 100 years, but they were doing things that individuals would probably never consider such as very carefully controlled environmental settings in the archives room.

I used to do backups to CDs and DVDs, but my primary use for them now is to create installation CDs and DVDs for various operating systems. Even then, there are some like Qubes OS that require me to use a USB drive.

BMo said:

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Philo B 93 said:

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I back up my valuable files (family pics and vids) onto multiple portable hdds then migrate to newer, bigger hdds every 6 or 7 years. My next migration will be to 4 tb ssds.

How do ssds compared to hdds as far as durability and lifespan?

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We have a number of portable and internal hard drives that I need to do this with. I have redundancy in my PC with multiple backup hard drives but should put the portables to better use.

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SSD drives are supposed to be far more stable for long term storage than regular had drives.

One thing that I did some years ago when 250 GB was a large hard drive was to set a computer up with hard drives that could be easily removed/replaced. That way, I had 250 GB removable storage that I could use for backups and store off-site. In that case, though, they weren't hot-swappable and I had to shut the computer off to swap out the drives and then start it up again.

Agree, for cold storage tradition disks best ssd

Somewhat off topic but optical storage device hardware and media manufacturers had the life of their technology extended significantly because of a typically misguided DoD policy directive in 2008.

Unless you were working in the DoD, it might be surprising to learn that the DoD CISO banned the use of removable flash memory devices in 2008 as part of the response to the AgentBTZ worm named operation Buckshot Yankee. An 'analysis' determined that AgentBTZ infected SIPRNet computers in Iraq and elsewhere throughout the CENTCOM AoR via unauthorized flash memory devices that were connected to workstations to load mp3 files to SIPR workstations so that people could list to their favorite music in the SCIF. In the spirit of never letting a good crisis go to waste, the DoD banned flash memory devices because they supposedly presented a more dangerous vector of attach than optical media. When those who knew better asked for an explanation of why flash memory was more dangerous than CDs or BluRay disc's the answer that was eventually admitted was that USB flash memory devices were more concealable and easier to smuggle into securnetworks.

In truth, it wasn't anything inherent about flash memory technology or the USB interface but that the J2 & J6 would use an insider threat concern about personnel reliability to ban the use of flash memory on both classified and unclassified networks. Why did they hate flash memory? Because the inconvenience of existing air gaps to remote sites was used as justification for funding the build-out of more terrestrial and wireless network infrastructure.

All of the uses cases where a flash memory device would make it more convenient and efficient to move data across an air gap for legitimate reasons were trumped by the mistrust of the workforce. It was pointless to argue that Bradley Manning used CDRs to smuggle out videos from secure spaces rather than flash memory.

Quote:

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Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/20jlv3/never_underestimate_the_bandwidth_of_a_station/

TMoney2007 said:

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IslandAg76 said:

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I still use CD's for what I call Deep storage. Back good I of photos, financial documents, etc. Then I can dump it off my computer (I have an external hard drive as an intermediate step).

I scan a lot of those type documents. Probably wasting a lot of my time since most everything is available on line and with cloud storage.

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Writable media can go bad over time. The dye that they use is organic and can degrade, among other things.

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I know they can and will go bad eventually, but I have read 20+ year old CD-R's today that are just fine.

C@LAg said:

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eric76 said:

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SSD drives are supposed to be far more stable for long term storage than regular had drives.

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nope.

your ssd crashes, and there are no physical sectors to reread in the future, unlike physical.

and SSDs are also subject to their own form of data rot if they are not occasionally powered on.

a physical drive is a much better option long-term if you really care about the data.

better yet, have redundancy for critical data.

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I've seen plenty of hard drives that could not be read.

At one company that was once a consulting customer of mine, I repeatedly tried to get them to do backups but they never felt the need to do them.

Then a hard drive crashed. With no backups. All of their business data on that hard drive. It was surprising how they didn't see much need to store copies of anything.

They spent tens of thousands of dollars sending the hard drive to various companies, some in Europe, trying to find someone who could read the data. They never found anyone and their inability to recover that data was a major reason in their bankruptcy.

They did end up coming out of bankruptcy, but as a much smaller company.

LoudestWHOOP! said:

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TMoney2007 said:

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IslandAg76 said:

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I still use CD's for what I call Deep storage. Back good I of photos, financial documents, etc. Then I can dump it off my computer (I have an external hard drive as an intermediate step).

I scan a lot of those type documents. Probably wasting a lot of my time since most everything is available on line and with cloud storage.

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Writable media can go bad over time. The dye that they use is organic and can degrade, among other things.

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I know they can and will go bad eventually, but I have read 20+ year old CD-R's today that are just fine.

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I'd prefer DVD+R over either CD-R or DVD-R media.

As I understand it from about 20 years ago, a DVD+R contains additional error detection detection/correction data. Also, my understanding is that with a DVD+R, you don't want to pack as much data on the drive as you can -- that you can leave more room for the error detection/correction information if you write somewhat less. For what it's worth, what I read about it back then may not have been entirely correct.

Assuming that it is correct, though, I typically use DVD-R and CD-R to make installation media for operating systems since the data is easy to find on-line if it does go bad. For backups, I generally use only about 4 GB per backup on a DVD+R drive to allow for the more expanded information.

I did have a few DVD-R and DVD+R of unimportant backup data from 2009 and have seen about 10% failure on the DVD-R but none on the DVD+R.