Does your road frontage have ROW markers? Seems like whoever was doing the cutting should have seen them. They should be along the start/stop of each curve and every 1000' otherwise. You might have bronze discs instead.

We have ~1/2 mile of US hwy frontage that has the markers. It's where the highway dept contractors stop mowing.

The engineer of record and/or TxDOT will have an existing topographic survey on file that has the ROW boundary and a tree survey on it. The tree survey has the rough location of the tree and the diameter of the trunk called out on it. In addition, the contract documents typically require the contractor to document existing conditions by video and/or photographs prior to beginning work.

txyaloo said:

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Does your road frontage have ROW markers? Seems like whoever was doing the cutting should have seen them. They should be along the start/stop of each curve and every 1000' otherwise. You might have bronze discs instead.

We have ~1/2 mile of US hwy frontage that has the markers. It's where the highway dept contractors stop mowing.

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txyaloo,

Educate me. I've seen real estate documents reference TxDOT concrete monuments but have never taken the time to actually examine them closely.

Do they have any markings on them (& how) and how deep down are those things planted?

Thanks. Un-ignorant me.

Ribeye-Rare said:

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txyaloo said:

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Does your road frontage have ROW markers? Seems like whoever was doing the cutting should have seen them. They should be along the start/stop of each curve and every 1000' otherwise. You might have bronze discs instead.

We have ~1/2 mile of US hwy frontage that has the markers. It's where the highway dept contractors stop mowing.

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txyaloo,

Educate me. I've seen real estate documents reference TxDOT concrete monuments but have never taken the time to actually examine them closely.

Do they have any markings on them (& how) and how deep down are those things planted?

Thanks. Un-ignorant me.

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One of the surveyors on here can likely give a better answer. I think that style is ~4' long total with ~1.5' above the ground. The tops are ~4"x4". One of our places has just formed concrete with no distinctive markings. Another place has bronze medallions in the markers. I believe some areas of the state just have the bronze medallions at ground level.

Type of monument depends on the region and time frame of the acquisition by the State. I think your dimensions are basically right but I've never dug one up all the way or seen a drawing of how they're supposed to be constructed.

Here's a Google Street View link to what the bottom of one looks like. https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2490717,-96.351392,3a,19y,340.14h,84.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seFzY4YW7Ryc8Fp4DUvOQMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Most markers of that type are not referenced in the deed to the State. The deeds just recite the geometry on the right-of-way maps as it relates to an individual property. I'm yet to find a court case on the probative value of these kinds of monuments. It's not always a good idea to assume they are the work of the original surveyor. I worked for a very good civil engineer who told a story of setting 40 of the one Saturday by him self at age 17 for extra cash. You're often many feet (or yards) from where the ROW maps would suggest.

If they've took down trees within their existing easement, you won't be compensated for those since they already had the right to remove them. You should be able to get compensation for the trees that were on your property. You won't become rich from it, but you should get something.
As someone already mentioned, this is a perfect reason why you should put the fence on the property line if at all possible.

Yes you should be compensated. The amount you should be compensated should be the amount that you paid for the trees when you purchased the property three years ago. You do have an itemization of the amount paid for the trees versus the amount paid for the land, don't you?

So whats a 100+ year oak worth anyways? How much does their ornamental value change the value of the acreage they sit on?

I am being sarcastic. The point of me saying what I said was to illustrate that trees are a component of the land value. No one pays for trees like live oaks outside of the premium that they might pay for a wooded lot/land.

In this case they are compensable outside of what they contribute to the value of the land, as land. In a trespass/breach on contract case like this, Enbridge is the case that rules. In eminent domain, it is White v. Natural Gas.

They have every right to remove the ones in their right of way as you conceded. The ones on your side of the property definitely shouldn't have been cut down. I think where there could be some grey area is the ones you say are on the property line. Everything in the right of way they can remove, so does that mean they cut a tree in half vertically on the property line? I doubt it, but is it one of those who's side is it more on deals? I really don't know.

txyaloo said:

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Does your road frontage have ROW markers? Seems like whoever was doing the cutting should have seen them. They should be along the start/stop of each curve and every 1000' otherwise. You might have bronze discs instead.

We have ~1/2 mile of US hwy frontage that has the markers. It's where the highway dept contractors stop mowing.

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I never trust those Type I concrete markers. They give you an idea of where a property line is, but are rarely within several feet of the property line. Those monuments were not established by surveyors.

Thanks everyone for the help,

OnlyForNow said:

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How big were the trees in diameter?

That's where the $$$ comes in. 2K a tree is on the low end of 25+ year old trees in the hill country, again, in my experience working on "clearing" projects.

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Not the hill country.....North Texas. 90% of the trees were greater than 12" diameter....a few that were 2 to 3 feet in diameter. About 50% of them were post oak. The remainder were pecan and elm.

OnlyForNow said:

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How big were the trees in diameter?

That's where the $$$ comes in. 2K a tree is on the low end of 25+ year old trees in the hill country, again, in my experience working on "clearing" projects.

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About $2,000 per tree would be an absolute bargain. Realize that these things are like family heirlooms. They chopped them all down because they were too lazy to do their homework and because "most" fences are on the property line. They're counting on the above to work out enough to pay for the times it doesn't. And if they don't get dinged for doing it wrong, they'll keep doing it.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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5. They will be grinding the stumps soon and I will not be hiring a surveyor to undertake the expensive task of locating each stump before they grind. I suspect they won't either...but hope they do.

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WHY? A stump survey shouldn't be very expensive and I'd think that would be your best evidence if this moves forward. Otherwise it seems you're just rolling over. Bet your butt they won't survey if they haven't already.

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HarleySpoon said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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5. They will be grinding the stumps soon and I will not be hiring a surveyor to undertake the expensive task of locating each stump before they grind. I suspect they won't either...but hope they do.

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WHY? A stump survey shouldn't be very expensive and I'd think that would be your best evidence if this moves forward. Otherwise it seems you're just rolling over. Bet your butt they won't survey if they haven't already.

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I think it would take a survey crew a good couple of days to survey that ROW and then place the stumps. The ROW has a few curves. But, I think I will get an estimate from a local surveyor and not just dismiss a survey out of hand. $1,500 I could do....but I wouldn't want to sink a lot more into it at this point.

I have what I feel is solid proof of what was taken and where; I think it would be incumbent upon them to ensure they know exactly what they are taking when they do it. I'm 90% positive that this is just a case of a subcontractor being turned loose and who saw what he thought was the opportunity to spend a bunch of hours and increase his income without really making TxDOT realize what he was going going to do first. I have an adjacent neighbor that has worked for TxDOT for 30 years and he tells me that what was done was pretty extraordinary and ridiculous.

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At a minimum I would get a survey crew to survey the remaining stumps and tie them to a set landmark. I don't think you need a full blow survey with the ROW at the moment. If TxDOT puts up resistance then you could get the survey crews to use their data and produce a full survey of the ROW and stumps for legal purposes. It's seems like you should CYA just in case something goes sideways. Also $2000 a tree seems like a real bargain. I'd aim for a higher number. As someone else mentioned these trees were heirlooms and they were erroneously taken out due to the negligence of the TxDOT contractors. TxDOT needs to pay up!

What is soon (re stump grinding) and what county are you in? I might be able to help or point you in the direction of quality help for a low cost.

Help with?

Tree locates. Possibly the ROW.

normaleagle05 said:

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Tree locates. Possibly the ROW.

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I'm north of the Metroplex. I've been assured the large stumps will be easy to find for the next few months even after ground. I would appreciate any less expensive contractor you can recommend. Thanks. PM is probably best.

No PM for me. My star is left over from the TexAgs COVID giveaway.

Email me. Username with no class year at the g thing.