the valley is starting to go solar.

2,126 Views | 25 Replies | Last: 14 yr ago by 12gauge
scottimus
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AG
3 years payback

quote:
Weslaco waste plant going green

WESLACO — The city of Weslaco was awarded $2 million in grants for the construction of a solar array project.


The money, overseen by the Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts and given by the State Energy Conservation Office and the U.S Department of Energy, will be used to reduce power costs at the South Waste Water Treatment Plant through the construction of hundreds of solar panels.


The plant is the number one consumer of electricity in Weslaco, said former Mayor Buddy de la Rosa. He said the solar cells will produce almost half of the energy the plant requires to run.


The array of solar cells will cover a two-acre area comprised of four rows with 462 panels each.


The total cost of the project is $2.4 million, but there is a potential $180,000 rebate from American Electric Power that was promised if the project was completed. The city is matching 12 percent of the cost by taking $220,000 from Weslaco’s sewer fund. De la Rosa said the city will see a return on the investment in three years after an anticipated $80,000 savings in electricity per year.


The project is equivalent to 181 acres of trees planted and is expected to reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 817,000 pounds per year.


De la Rosa said the city might receive national recognition for the project.


“It is a tremendous asset for the city of Weslaco. No city our size has ever done something like this,” he said.


The former mayor also noted that if a national Cap and Trade Bill was passed, the city could receive up to $3.8 million for the reduction of energy consumed.
The equipment will be warranted for 25 years by the manufacturer and has a possible working life of 30 to 35 years.
Del la Rosa added that the school district was also interested in adding solar panels in the future.


Walter Kovacs
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oldvalleyrat
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AG
quote:
The former mayor also noted that if a national Cap and Trade Bill was passed, the city could receive up to $3.8 million for the reduction of energy consumed.


...and raise the price of every gallon of gas that is sold in the United States! Why should we have to have our taxes rasied so that Mercedes can build an inefficient and costly solar system that will be out of use long before it has saved any money!


[This message has been edited by oldvalleyrat (edited 7/26/2010 9:59p).]
rhomulus bonham
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AG
Cap and Trade, High Maintenance fees for Panels, Waste of Space compared to power output.
scottimus
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AG
please tell what you think the price of gas will be in 25 years? here is a graph to help!



and here is another one for you solar haters

oldvalleyrat
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AG
I don't hate solar panels. They are something that I think it is great...just not a replacement for the energy systems that are in place now. How big a solar panel would it take to replace a big nuclear plant? Maybe the state of Montana?

If I had the money I might put solar panels on my house to get some light in case the power goes out but my lot is not big enough for all the solar panels it would take to to run my house. Even if the lot was big enought it would take a huge loan to buy all of them...especially since the life of the solar panel is less than the life of the loan!

It is the same with the wind turbines. Have you seen the size of the installation of wind turbines in west Texas? It is awesome, BUT even all of that doesn't equal one goodsize power plant...conventional or nuclear.


I don't hate either of these two methods of generating power but I am practical in the way I look at things>

[This message has been edited by oldvalleyrat (edited 7/27/2010 6:30p).]
Walter Kovacs
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AG
i actually just read something like this.

1000 megawatt nuclear plant = 58 square mile solar ray = 308 square mile wind farm.

edit to correct my spelling

[This message has been edited by Walter Kovacs (edited 7/27/2010 10:30p).]
rhomulus bonham
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AG
Personally i think that solar panels are great for research plants out in the middle of nowhere desert.

I agree with rat though that they have no real value in today's existing grid. (Don't get me started on the horror and uselessness that is a wind farm.) They take up way too much space that could be utilized in other ways. Also don't believe the fancy charts about solar panels. Most of these numbers are skewed (i.e. values are pulled at the best times to produce the nicest numbers. I have seen these analysis and know some of the people who produce these reports.)
scottimus
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AG
how old is the research you all have been looking at?

rat, tell me your exact kWh usage for a month, i can tell you exactly the cost and size of a PV system you would need. (not to mention the fact that you would not have to pay an electricity bill)

Warranties now cover 95% efficiency at 10 years 80% at 30 so that loss would not be significant.

the problem is that every house hold in america needs to stop thinking like a consumer and think like a producer. if every house had a PV system or mini nuclear power plant grid-tied, we would eliminate the need for a dependency on a single source of power.


that being said DOE and "futurists" predict PV will be as cheap as Coal by 2015.
oldvalleyrat
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AG
Let's say 2500 KWH for arguements sake. I'm not particularly interested in what "futurists" say, this isn't Star Trek.

[This message has been edited by oldvalleyrat (edited 7/28/2010 7:34a).]

[This message has been edited by oldvalleyrat (edited 7/28/2010 7:36a).]
rhomulus bonham
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AG
I am assumin that you work as a saler or would like to of solar panels. I would be real interested to see a real example of a normal residential house (in a subarb on a normal lot) that is entirely off the normal power grid due to the sole use of solar panels.

I can tell you from my experience that i have never come across this. i have seen many people who claimed solar as a sole source but after looking around found this to be false.

The idea behind the personalized "energy boxes" is a logistical nightmare as of right now. It is a great theory but the fact of the matter is that if we turn every household into producers we run into severe maintenance issues. Running these energy boxes requires a lot of training, especially during storm times. You are talking abpout having to heavily educate the masses about this. We are just not a point now where all of this can come in a perfect preprogrammed package.
strawberryshortcake
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wtf is going on in here?


what do you guys care? most valleyites don't even pay for electricity. they use the neighbors juice through an orange extension cord.
scottimus
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AG
strawberry this is not the GB
12gauge
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Wasn't there an article a while back in the Valley Town Crier about a teacher that had installed enough solar panels and wind turbines on his house to produce enough energy to go in the negative?
oldvalleyrat
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I didn't see the article. I am certainly not convinced that solar power is a viable alternative but I am interested in seeing the state of the art currently. My brother installed a 25 KW generator at his house that runs on natural gas and he can run his house on that if the power goes out and I have been looking at alternatives. I haven't lost power in the last two storms but during Hurricane Bulah(sp?) there were people without power for a couple of weeks.

The problem is that a backup power system is pretty expensive no matter what you use. I have done some reading on the solar option but everything that I have read is that solar is the most expensive and inefficent way to go. I suppose that that may have changed so I am looking for info!
oldvalleyrat
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quote:
rat, tell me your exact kWh usage for a month, i can tell you exactly the cost and size of a PV system you would need. (not to mention the fact that you would not have to pay an electricity bill)


I responded 2500KWH was hoping to get an idea from you what this translates to. Are you still there?
scottimus
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AG
sorry, i have been fishing and sleeping too much.

yes 2500 kWh a month (3 times the average usage of a home in the US) would require about 66 standard sized 224 V sharp panels in a conventional set up.

with a power usage that size i would assume that your home may be 3 times the size of an average american home and would possibly have the adequate roof space to accompany a set up of that size. the price would be upwards of 60,000 for materials alone and i would highly recommend a tracking set up that would drop the required wattage of the PV system but would also need a small land area.



oldvalleyrat
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quote:
with a power usage that size i would assume that your home may be 3 times the size of an average american home and would possibly have the adequate roof space to accompany a set up of that size. the price would be upwards of 60,000 for materials alone and i would highly recommend a tracking set up that would drop the required wattage of the PV system but would also need a small land area.


I guess I never thought about the size of my house compared to the average house. The average house must be the size of a small one bedrom appartment, or maybe my old house is just inefficient.

This is interesting. I still don't know how big an area that this number of solar panels covers. I suppose that this would/would not make sense depending on how may payments it would take to pay for this based in the amount I currently pay for electricity. In other words if my electric bill (MVEC) is $250 per month...how many years would it take to pay off a $60,000 loan at $250/month to pay for the panels and installation and is that shorter or longer than the life of the solar cells. Also what is the yearly/monthly cost to keep it running.

On the face of it, if I made a loan at 0%(I know not realistic) interest for $60,000 and made the payments equal to my current electric bill about $250 per month it would take 20 years to pay for the setup (not including maintenance).

So my questions then becomes what is the guaranteed life of these solar cells?


scottimus
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AG
you would need about 1100 sq ft of roof space preferably south facing.

the solar panels are Made in the USA and have a 25 year efficiency warranty. inverter also made in the USA has a 10 year warranty. maintenance would include and be limited to mainly inverter stress or failure. with a 10 year warranty you may need another one(2 in your case) after 10 years at about a 1000 dollars each.

that being said too bad you do not live in college station where you would qualify for a $12,000 automatic tax credit and the federal government has a 30% tax incentive as well.

that being said i would wait if you are in the valley for a monetary incentives for solar which will happen, but again with the tax structure here in cs you could get materials alone down from $60,000(materials)-$12,000(cs tax credit)-$18,000(federal tax credit)= $20,000 all after tax season of course.

with that amount however, a $250 electric bill, you are looking at equalization at 6.667 years which would only be 25% of the warranty of the solar panels and half of the inverter. which means you could possibly incur a net profit of $54,000 from the lack of an electric bill for the duration of the warranty of the system (panels).
strawberryshortcake
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that is one hell of a sales pitch, scott!


sell him some more!!!!
oldvalleyrat
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AG
While waiting for your response, I looked at a couple of sites and one had a pretty good breakdown of price,etc. It was not the brand that you mentioned. They said that the cost including installation was $140,000 but that with tax incentives etc the price would drop to $90,000. Since you didn't mention installation costs I guess that they might be substantial.

It appears that this solar isn't ready for prime time yet.

I wonder about these windmills?
scottimus
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AG
quote:
that is one hell of a sales pitch, scott!


sell him some more!!!!


sorry i do not open for business until the fall
georgesymond121
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Well, I see that solar panel has become advancement now days because of its go green and saving energy. I heard that big companies from china and USA are involving in installing big plant of solar panel Texas project which will help in employment and energy consumption too.

SOLAR PANEL TEXAS
Eugene4x
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AG
Windmill farm going up east of Raymondville
RGV AG
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The constant use AC is what blows most users out of the water.

I have seen plenty comfortable houses, with fridge and freezer, out in the middle of nowhere that do just fine with solar and wind.

If I ever build or re-model another house I am going to go to mini-split AC's and I am going to do so in a way that I/we(my family) could live in it without AC. Wife and daughter may not like it much, but que sera, sera. When we were in Nicaragua they were fine with no AC in most of the house and only AC at night to sleep an even then they got used to me programming it to shut off.

Power down there was 3.5X the cost of what it is in the US, that will make you re-examine your power usage, that is for sure.
scottimus
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AG
I am so glad this topic has been brought up again. Alot has happened since this installation occurred.
12gauge
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I'd have to go with RGV AG's opinion on the AC use. I grew up in a home where you ran the A/C to 75 in the summer and 75 for the cold days with the heater. I know we always had high bills. Now with my own home, the rib keeps the AC off, windows open, and ceiling fan until it's too hot inside, then we kick on the AC to 79 or 78 if we're feeling crazy. In the winter, we'll use the heater if were at about 65 or below inside the house. Believe me, we reap the benefits of a lower bill because of it.
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