Anybody know where it might be available and the cost?

Blasted cold air triggering Tirepressure monitoring sensor.

Why dont you just correct the pressure and forget about it.

Nitrogen is a scam, but if you insist, Rimco in Bryan.

The air in your tires is already 78% nitrogen. You want to pay more to get 20% more?

Stop feeding the troll guys...leave him be with his nitrogen illusions...

I think those who run it on the track DO have more consistent results. Do any of you track your cars?

Yes. And I do not use nitrogen.

So all those people in professional racing that DO to reduce (edit) pressure change do to temps are just FOS?
Please offer some empirical data.. and dont just throw the troll blanket.

I have also tracked my car and got 4psi increase. Which after I knew what the delta was could be accounted for. Ambient air temp change is not consistent

[This message has been edited by jimmyb (edited 11/18/2009 6:42a).]

Man where is that picture of the window sticker for a car with like 2000$ for nitrogen in the tires ..

An fool and his money are soon parted.

They don't do it to prevent pressure change, they do it so pressure change is more predictable. Water vapor in the air expands to several times it's volume when it heats up, where air doesn't expand nearly as much. When you are racing a half pound can make a difference in the car's setup. The temperature of the tires on a street vehicle get no where close to the temperatures on a racecar. Racecar tires can get up to 200° where street tires are not more than 10 to 15° above ambient under normal conditions and therefore nitrogen is a waste of money.

[This message has been edited by Grego2007 (edited 11/18/2009 6:48a).]

Guy .. you can barely spell, your use of the English language isnt very good, but I will try to explain to you the physics and chemistry behind your gibberish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_heat_capacity

Take a look at the Cp of air and the Cp of Nitrogen, they are less than 3% different, because as someone already stated, 78% of air is nitrogen.

Gasses in a fixed volume (though a tire isnt necessarily a fixed volume) expand with temperature increases, resulting in higher pressures.

You postulate that you will reduce tire pressure due to the gas in the tires either taking more energy to increase its temperature, or somehow not increasing as much in volume (and therefore pressure) with temperature.

However, as I already posted, the difference in Cp for the two gasses is <3%, so the same energy will result in the same temperature rise.

Also considering the ideal gas law (air isnt an ideal gas, but lets simplify the problem)

pV = nRT

n = amount of gas, fixed closed system is constant
R = ideal gas constant
V = volume, again this isnt a stiff system, but lets call it a constant for simplicity

p = pressure, a variable in this case
T = temperature, a variable in this case

So there you go, two variables and one is dependent on the other. However, the pressure only changes as the temperature changes and the temperature only changes based on the specific heat, which again is only 3% different between the two gasses. So the max pressure difference between air and nitrogen, with the same thermal input, is 3% ..

No empirical evidence needed, I used the ideal gas LAW .. when something is called a LAW .. nature obeys. You are a troll and or a dumbass. And people who do this are also dumbasses, but since 99% of people have no clue about simple physics or chemistry, they can be fooled by things like this.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 11/18/2009 6:56a).]

My spelling was correct. Punctuation was incorrect on one word. I didn't know this was a english forum.

Keep it on topic or don't reply. There is no need to try to portray a level of superiority - it's just trivial and unnecessary.

The pertinent responses will be considered - thanks

[This message has been edited by jimmyb (edited 11/18/2009 7:02a).]

Even with a delta Temp of 170 the pressure differential between air and nitrogen (with equal energy input) is the same.

The formulas are the same for each gas, the only difference is that air requires 3% less energy to raise one degree Kelvin. So air might heat up faster, slightly, but for the same temperature, they will have the same pressure in the same volume for the same amount of gas.

170F = 94.4C del Celsius is del Kelvin

Over a change of 94.4K, the difference in temperature between air and nitrogen .. wait .. .. wait for it ..

THATS RIGHT its still <3%

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 11/18/2009 7:03a).]

http://www.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?forum_id=46&topic_id=1416277

Related thread....

quote:

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Even with a delta Temp of 170 the pressure differential between air and nitrogen (with equal energy input) isnt going to be significant

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This is true unless you have any humidity. The water vapor will make a big difference. So racecars use dry air or nitrogen.

Where's flaith?

Same link before.

100% water vapor (steam) at 100C (boiling) is has 2x the Cp of air/nitrogen.

The absolute humidity of the air in your tires is still not going to be enough to significantly change it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_conditions_for_temperature_and_pressure

Notice the absolute pressure for 20C at 50% relative humidity (note that isnt 50% absolute), and 20C with 0%.

Pressure difference, 1.3%.

While that 1.3% might change to a crazy .. 2.6% or even 3% by 100C, I really doubt anyone has a tire gauge that is accurate to 1%, +/-1% = 2% and therefore the error of your measuring device is going to be significantly more than the difference in the pressure between air and nitrogen, even if the air has water vapor.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 11/18/2009 7:20a).]

http://www.tis-gdv.de/tis_e/misc/klima.htm

A very interesting chart.

It says that at 50C (122F) at a relative humidity of 50%, there is 41.5g/m3 of water in the air. 19 liters of air in a tire at 35psi (5 gallons is what google told me).

One m3 has 1000l of volume, so there is 41.5(19/1000) g of water in your tire at 50% relative humidity, or 0.79g, a gram is a paperclip, again this isnt going to do anything. The Cp of your tire compound itself is going to do 1000x more.

Edit: Actually you arent filling your tires when the air is 122F at 50%RH, that was a mistake, you are filling them when the air is probably 25C (77F) with a RH of 50%, which then means the air has 11.5 g/m3.

Same process as before, only that 11.5*(19/1000) now means that you have 0.22g of water in your tire, which is 1/3 of the previously miniscule value I gave before. Even if there are 20 gallons of air at STP in your tire due to the compression, that brings you back up to 1.10g of water. A paperclip isnt going to make much of a difference compared to your tire compound.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 11/18/2009 7:40a).]

quote:

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Keep it on topic or don't reply. There is no need to try to portray a level of superiority - it's just trivial and unnecessary.

The pertinent responses will be considered - thanks

---

maybe if your feelings weren't hurt you'd read randy's posts and realize they are in fact, pertinent.

The part about the punctuation was not.

In fact, HIS use of the word isnt was no less egregious

I personally like this one



[This message has been edited by jimmyb (edited 11/18/2009 8:15a).]

Well my work on this thread wasnt a total waste, I figured out that my apartment only has about 1.5l of water in the air. I was wondering why the dehumidifier wasnt removing much more than 0.1l per hour and now I know, because the absolute humiditiy isnt that high, so there just isnt that much water to remove, despite the relative humidity being higher than I might like it.

Thanks for your input

Glad I could be of assistance in your personal environment.

Please don't tell me you want to use these too...or do you already?

Another person that "tracks" his ride, here.

Nitrogen is a scam.

HTH

If I showed up to the track with a mother tank of N and offered to sell some to people, I'd probably leave with a corn cob stuck in my nethers. I'm not one that would particularly like that, so......

This concern that it is a waste of money is somewhat dated.
Both sams club and some dealerships (not necessarily local) are filling tires with Nitrogen now - for FREE

quote:

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Please don't tell me you want to use these too...or do you already?

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Nope - I made the HP in my camaro the old fashioned way - transplanting a 400CID motor and 9" rearend - BY myself and on the ground for the 9"..

[This message has been edited by jimmyb (edited 11/18/2009 8:24a).]

The air that is 78% nitrogen coming out of my compressor at home is free as well...I just took a breathe...MORE FREE NITROGEN!!

quit stealing my nitrogen!

Watch it there CATAGBQ04 the grammar police will get on you.. or maybe not.

I have xenon in my tires. That's just the way I roll. If you f***ers don't like it, you can go suck on a tailpipe.

Xenon?

I have Xenu!

That's right. Tom Cruise's deity is all up in my sht!

i bet if you fill the tires with helium, it will make your car lighter and improve handling and give you better gas mileage!

as long as it's not Xanadu, bigrob

quote:

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therefore nitrogen is a waste of money.

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no it isn't.

NITROGEN IS A WONDERFUL THING PLEASE BUY IT AND TELL YOUR FRIENDS AND YOUR FRIENDS' FRIENDS WHO OWN LARGE COMPANIES THAT IT IS WONDERFUL AND NEEDS TO BE PURCHASED

all of you people on this thread need to SUSH!