I was driving back up to Amarillo yesterday from a wedding down in Brenham when all of a sudden going through Childress, My 2021 F-250 died with no warning lights. I was able to coast it into a parking lot and got towed the 1/2mile to a diesel repair place. The owner called me earlier and told me that he found metal in the fuel so there's a good chance my CP4 pump blew and sent metal all through the fuel system. He's going to do more digging and confirm that that is the problem.
Guess the Damage Ford CP4 Pump Edition
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Last: 1 yr ago by StockHorseAg
$12,000?
I assume you are out of warranty? Sorry, that sucks
I assume you are out of warranty? Sorry, that sucks
This quote from me on a previous thread didn't age well...Quote:
As long as you are putting diesel in your pickup that is from high traffic gas stations and regularly change your fuel filters then you really shouldn't have to worry about the CP4. The CP4 going out isn't as common as facebook makes it seem. If you are truly worried about it, skip the disaster prevention kit and get either the CP4x or the DCR pump.
The problem with modern diesels aren't the engines themselves but they way they are used. Guys used to be happy just buying a half ton to fulfill their pick up itch but now everyone wants to get a 3/4ton diesel. Modern diesels nor really any diesel engine are designed to be grocery getters (except TDIs maybe) where you crank the pick-up, drive 2 miles, turn it off, just to redo the process on the way home. A prime example of this is in the 2 years I had my ram 2500 before going to college where I was constantly pulling horse trailers and equipment with it, it never went into a regen cycle where it alerted me that it was cleaning the DPF. During my first semester, it told me my DPF was full and went into regen 3 times.
Diesel engines need to be worked and get up to operating temps on the highway regularly in order to clean out the DPF and other engine components. The CP4 is pretty much an engine in of it's self in my opinion, it's two pistons in cylinders compressing the fuel like an air compressor. Now this is just me speculating but if that doesn't get up to temp regularly then it is hell on the seals and it's equivalent of piston rings. Machines like to be ran, If you are just farting around the suburbs in your diesel 3/4ton with no hitch in the bed and a B&W in bumper hitch with out a sign of use on it, then you are just asking to have problems with your engine.
Sorry, Rant over.
How many miles do you have on it? Based on your previous post it seems like you stayed on top of filters.
I just picked up a 2019 with 36k on it and the CP4 is the thing that worries me the most.
It was certified preowned, so I have an opportunity to pick up a Ford ESP warranty for about $3750 (this would cover me for roughly 90k miles and/or 5 years). I do not normally buy extended warranties, but the CP4 may make it worth that.
I just picked up a 2019 with 36k on it and the CP4 is the thing that worries me the most.
It was certified preowned, so I have an opportunity to pick up a Ford ESP warranty for about $3750 (this would cover me for roughly 90k miles and/or 5 years). I do not normally buy extended warranties, but the CP4 may make it worth that.
That sucks man. Do you have any warranty left?
I'll be honest, not having a cp4 was a big determining factor to help me decide to buy a new Duramax over the Powerstroke.
I'll be honest, not having a cp4 was a big determining factor to help me decide to buy a new Duramax over the Powerstroke.
Disaster prevention kit cost me $1100ish installed a few years back. Good piece of mind.
Not rubbing it in
Not rubbing it in
It just rolled 80k yesterday. I'd look into if the extended warranty will cover the CP4 pump because even if it says it does, Ford will try to prove that it was due to your negligence that it failed.
I have heard that. Might be best to buy the disaster prevention kit.
StockHorseAg said:
It just rolled 80k yesterday. I'd look into if the extended warranty will cover the CP4 pump because even if it says it does, Ford will try to prove that it was due to your negligence that it failed.
I believe the 100k warranty that comes with it covers that.
It was the switch from Ram to Ford that got you. :-) I'm knocking on wood as a '21 Ram driver (CP3), although the '02 Ford has been pretty reliable too along with the first, second, and third Gen Dodges!StockHorseAg said:This quote from me on a previous thread didn't age well...Quote:
As long as you are putting diesel in your pickup that is from high traffic gas stations and regularly change your fuel filters then you really shouldn't have to worry about the CP4. The CP4 going out isn't as common as facebook makes it seem. If you are truly worried about it, skip the disaster prevention kit and get either the CP4x or the DCR pump.
The problem with modern diesels aren't the engines themselves but they way they are used. Guys used to be happy just buying a half ton to fulfill their pick up itch but now everyone wants to get a 3/4ton diesel. Modern diesels nor really any diesel engine are designed to be grocery getters (except TDIs maybe) where you crank the pick-up, drive 2 miles, turn it off, just to redo the process on the way home. A prime example of this is in the 2 years I had my ram 2500 before going to college where I was constantly pulling horse trailers and equipment with it, it never went into a regen cycle where it alerted me that it was cleaning the DPF. During my first semester, it told me my DPF was full and went into regen 3 times.
Diesel engines need to be worked and get up to operating temps on the highway regularly in order to clean out the DPF and other engine components. The CP4 is pretty much an engine in of it's self in my opinion, it's two pistons in cylinders compressing the fuel like an air compressor. Now this is just me speculating but if that doesn't get up to temp regularly then it is hell on the seals and it's equivalent of piston rings. Machines like to be ran, If you are just farting around the suburbs in your diesel 3/4ton with no hitch in the bed and a B&W in bumper hitch with out a sign of use on it, then you are just asking to have problems with your engine.
Sorry, Rant over.
Good grief.
The dodge salesman told me the dodges are great as long as you don't mind the truck falling apart around it. My foreman's experience validates that.
My foreman also owns two brand new Chevrolets with a Duramax and both have had two transmissions before the odometer hit 40,000 miles.
And ford apparently grenades the fuel pumps into the system even though I've been told if you use a diesel as it was intended with hauling that it won't be a problem. I assume based on your handle that you aren't getting groceries with yours 2 miles from your house.
I'm so excited to buy a new truck. So excited.
The new Fords have the 4.2 pump but can anyone really feel good about that now?
The dodge salesman told me the dodges are great as long as you don't mind the truck falling apart around it. My foreman's experience validates that.
My foreman also owns two brand new Chevrolets with a Duramax and both have had two transmissions before the odometer hit 40,000 miles.
And ford apparently grenades the fuel pumps into the system even though I've been told if you use a diesel as it was intended with hauling that it won't be a problem. I assume based on your handle that you aren't getting groceries with yours 2 miles from your house.
I'm so excited to buy a new truck. So excited.
The new Fords have the 4.2 pump but can anyone really feel good about that now?
I also replaced a Transmission in a '23 3500 this year. 60k miles
Now that I think about it more, I think I'm going to take it to a dealership and here is my reasoning. After doing more research, Ford will deny it under warranty if they can prove that it was contaminated fuel. If they can't prove it was contaminated fuel then they should fix it under warranty. The last place I filled up was at a QT in DFW. QT's policy is that if you can prove that it was their fuel that caused your engine damage, they will foot the bill for the repairs. So if Ford denies it, due to bad fuel, then QT might pay for it.
The only thing I'm nervous about taking it to the dealership is that I do my own maintenance and the might start asking about records. I don't think it'll be too big of a deal though because I just changed them 6k miles ago and have Amazon receipts for the filters.
The only thing I'm nervous about taking it to the dealership is that I do my own maintenance and the might start asking about records. I don't think it'll be too big of a deal though because I just changed them 6k miles ago and have Amazon receipts for the filters.
My '20 Ram 2500 has been perfect. They were even nice enough to pull my CP4 and install a CP3. Different tact to Ford's ignore and deny strategy.
StockHorseAg said:
Now that I think about it more, I think I'm going to take it to a dealership and here is my reasoning. After doing more research, Ford will deny it under warranty if they can prove that it was contaminated fuel. If they can't prove it was contaminated fuel then they should fix it under warranty. The last place I filled up was at a QT in DFW. QT's policy is that if you can prove that it was their fuel that caused your engine damage, they will foot the bill for the repairs. So if Ford denies it, due to bad fuel, then QT might pay for it.
The only thing I'm nervous about taking it to the dealership is that I do my own maintenance and the might start asking about records. I don't think it'll be too big of a deal though because I just changed them 6k miles ago and have Amazon receipts for the filters.
Spreadsheet with dates and mileage.
BDJ_AG said:
How many miles do you have on it? Based on your previous post it seems like you stayed on top of filters.
I just picked up a 2019 with 36k on it and the CP4 is the thing that worries me the most.
It was certified preowned, so I have an opportunity to pick up a Ford ESP warranty for about $3750 (this would cover me for roughly 90k miles and/or 5 years). I do not normally buy extended warranties, but the CP4 may make it worth that.
CP4 pumps can grenade at any mileage. You can replace the entire fuel system and get 1 bad tank of fuel and be in the same situation the next day. I personally know 2 people that were denied fuel system claims on their extended warranties. One was $12k the other was $15k on his 2019. "Certified Preowned" at Tomball Ford = fuel system full of rust 1 week after purchase for one of them.
I have around 190k miles on my 2016 with no issues, but I plan to install a DCR pump myself soon. I have an additional fuel/water separator inline and run additive in every tank. My suggestion would be to spend that $3k on the DCR conversion and be done with the issue. The conversion kit is $1,990 with labor being around $1k if you can't install it yourself.
Didn't GM just lose a class action suit regarding CP4s? It might not help you here but it does set a precedent on CP4 failures.
HumbleAg04 said:
My '20 Ram 2500 has been perfect. They were even nice enough to pull my CP4 and install a CP3. Different tact to Ford's ignore and deny strategy.
It's don't think it's that simple on a 6.7. The CP3 won't fit. Maybe they could put the DCR on if it fails but not sure they'd do that. Plus the as of 2019, there were over 1.4 million 6.7 diesels on the road. There are but a handful of failures. Somewhere I read 5-7%. On top of that, they can fail at 100 miles of 300,000 miles. So….Ford isn't fixing anything until an engine redesign is in the works. And when the redesign the engine, we can get a whole host of new failures.
Ram is reportedly using the CP4 In 2025 Ram diesels.
Seems the best thing to do is eat the S&S DPK cost and install that and if the CP4 fails then put in a DCR.
So, guess we're all hosed one way or another.
You can have a capable truck that may kill itself or you can go buy a 20 year old diesel with 100 horsepower. Lol.
Are they not using Allisons anymore? I thought those were very reliable.Jason_Roofer said:
My foreman also owns two brand new Chevrolets with a Duramax and both have had two transmissions before the odometer hit 40,000 miles.
Martin Q. Blank said:Are they not using Allisons anymore? I thought those were very reliable.Jason_Roofer said:
My foreman also owns two brand new Chevrolets with a Duramax and both have had two transmissions before the odometer hit 40,000 miles.
I thought they were too. I don't know what I don't know anymore.
Jason_Roofer said:Martin Q. Blank said:Are they not using Allisons anymore? I thought those were very reliable.Jason_Roofer said:
My foreman also owns two brand new Chevrolets with a Duramax and both have had two transmissions before the odometer hit 40,000 miles.
I thought they were too. I don't know what I don't know anymore.
If it's the 10 speed it is an Allison in name only.
this. it's the co-developed transmission with Ford. they pay Allison a licensing fee for the name.EskimoJoe said:Jason_Roofer said:Martin Q. Blank said:Are they not using Allisons anymore? I thought those were very reliable.Jason_Roofer said:
My foreman also owns two brand new Chevrolets with a Duramax and both have had two transmissions before the odometer hit 40,000 miles.
I thought they were too. I don't know what I don't know anymore.
If it's the 10 speed it is an Allison in name only.
A Ford transmission with an Allison sticker on a Chevy truck.
Before you show them receipts are you sure the filters weren't counterfeit and can be traced back to an OEM part?
I think the half ton 10 speed was co-designed with Ford. The 10L1000 I think is a GM design with just Allison testing.
So today I picked it up from the shop in Childress using a pickup and trailer I borrowed from a friend. I decided to take it to the ford dealership in Hereford since everybody recommends them and the dealerships in Amarillo aren't worth a damn.
While driving, I remembered that a guy I work with quite often through work is good friends with the owner of the dealership in Hereford. I called him and he said he'd put in a good word for me.
I get to the dealership and the GM is waiting for me at the door. After talking, he sends 5 people out to help me get my pickup off the trailer and push it into a spot. I go back inside and he takes down my info and gives me his personal cell phone number for if I have any questions.
They are going to look at it on Thursday so hopefully I'll know if warranty will cover it then.
While driving, I remembered that a guy I work with quite often through work is good friends with the owner of the dealership in Hereford. I called him and he said he'd put in a good word for me.
I get to the dealership and the GM is waiting for me at the door. After talking, he sends 5 people out to help me get my pickup off the trailer and push it into a spot. I go back inside and he takes down my info and gives me his personal cell phone number for if I have any questions.
They are going to look at it on Thursday so hopefully I'll know if warranty will cover it then.
That's great service. Hopefully they get it done under warranty.
Interesting about the QT info. There was a new QT by my house so I always try to buy diesel there if possible. With a Buccees just down the road it keeps QT very competitive too.
And spring for DEF at Costco so I can prove up it was fresh as well.
Not sure why Ram thinks this run with a 2025 CP4 will be better than their 19-20 replacement fiasco.
Interesting about the QT info. There was a new QT by my house so I always try to buy diesel there if possible. With a Buccees just down the road it keeps QT very competitive too.
And spring for DEF at Costco so I can prove up it was fresh as well.
Not sure why Ram thinks this run with a 2025 CP4 will be better than their 19-20 replacement fiasco.
I forgot to mention that this dealership used to do warranty work on deleted pickups. I don't know if they still do but I know as of a couple of years ago they did.
I feel like that gives me better odds of them covering it.
I feel like that gives me better odds of them covering it.
StockHorseAg said:
So today I picked it up from the shop in Childress using a pickup and trailer I borrowed from a friend. I decided to take it to the ford dealership in Hereford since everybody recommends them and the dealerships in Amarillo aren't worth a damn.
While driving, I remembered that a guy I work with quite often through work is good friends with the owner of the dealership in Hereford. I called him and he said he'd put in a good word for me.
I get to the dealership and the GM is waiting for me at the door. After talking, he sends 5 people out to help me get my pickup off the trailer and push it into a spot. I go back inside and he takes down my info and gives me his personal cell phone number for if I have any questions.
They are going to look at it on Thursday so hopefully I'll know if warranty will cover it then.
I genuinely hope it's something stupid and simple and not what you suspect. My fingers are crossed for you because that sucks no matter what.
I feel like if this is a cp4 failure, it's a special case of warranty regardless of whether it's out of warranty period since it's a pretty well documented and known issue.
Up there I can only imagine the percent of trucks that had a weight loss procedure. The CP4 is one reason I stuck with Ram, and the fact that I can stop a loaded trailer with the engine brake with the Aisin.
I love my Ford, but I will say that the engine brake on the Ram seemed to be alot better than the Fords. It's really tough to compare the two because each of them are different in their own way.
In the 150k miles I put on the Ram, it never gave me any issues other than a thermostat I replaced in 20min and the A/C cut out once but came back on and never cut out again. Out of those 150k miles I'd say 50k of them were towing.
In the 150k miles I put on the Ram, it never gave me any issues other than a thermostat I replaced in 20min and the A/C cut out once but came back on and never cut out again. Out of those 150k miles I'd say 50k of them were towing.
Buy some lubricity additive and add every couple of tanks of diesel. The real issue is the manufacturer Bosch isn't mass producing CP3s so there isn't an option going forward other than the CP4. Either the US needs stricter lubricity specifications to match EN590 regulations that the CP4 was designed around or we stop relying on foreign parts (ha) for "American made" vehicles. (pumps self lubricate with the fuel, why bad fuel makes them go boom)
HumbleAg04 said:
Buy some lubricity additive and add every couple of tanks of diesel.
I have a 2015 that I bought a few months ago, with 130k. I add that stuff every tank. I also plan to add a lift pump, which includes much finer fuel filters.
What lubricity additive are you guys using?CanyonAg77 said:HumbleAg04 said:
Buy some lubricity additive and add every couple of tanks of diesel.
I have a 2015 that I bought a few months ago, with 130k. I add that stuff every tank. I also plan to add a lift pump, which includes much finer fuel filters.
https://www.amazon.com/Hot-Shots-Secret-HSSEDT16ZS-Additive/dp/B00E64I7SI/?th=1
And I have this lift pump on the 2002 LM7, I just haven't gotten around to adding it to the LML. The benefits are better filtering and water separation, and preventing air in the system going to the injector pump.
https://dmaxstore.com/products/airdog-ii-5g-100-air-fuel-separation-system-01-10-lb7-lly-lbz-lmm
Quote:
And I have this lift pump on the 2002 LM7, I just haven't gotten around to adding it to the LML. The benefits are better filtering and water separation, and preventing air in the system going to the injector pump.
https://dmaxstore.com/products/airdog-ii-5g-100-air-fuel-separation-system-01-10-lb7-lly-lbz-lmm
Quote:
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