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Ketamine Therapy for Depression?

3,513 Views | 24 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by KSBogey
Tree Hugger
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AG
I have a family member who has been doing a regular in-office Ketamine treatment. They initially said it was to wean them off of prescription medication for depression (and a litany of other meds) but they have been going twice a week since early this summer and have admitted they haven't stopped taking any of the other medications that they were supposed to be getting away from.

When asked about this by family members, the person in question admitted they are still on all of the other prior meds and that they are essentially just "getting high" twice a week and that they should ask "the doctor" about getting off the other meds. That question was asked of them a few weeks ago but I doubt they have had that conversation with their PCP.

My questions:

  • Shouldn't they have already had a plan to reduce/remove the medications in question?
  • Why are the treatments still going on this frequently after almost six months?
  • How dangerous is it to keep doing the ketamine treatments? just a quick Google search says it can be addictive, albeit they are referring to addiction potential happening in an unsupervised setting.

I'll turn it over to you for thoughts. I started to add a couple of other points but that was bordering on TMI for this conversation. I'm just looking for some insight if anyone has had experience with this.

I don't check this board terribly often these days but will try to chime in if anyone has questions for me.
bigtruckguy3500
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It's entirely possible that he's just getting high.

The questions I would want to know are
1) Is he under the care of a psychiatrist at all?
2) Is the psychiatrist affiliated with the ketamine clinic?
3) Is he currently undergoing cognitive behavioral therapy of some type?
4) Who owns the ketamine clinic, and how did he get approved for ketamine therapy?

To answer your questions
1) If that was the original plan, then yes they should have had a plan in place already. However no guarantee that was the original plan.
2) Depending on the type of clinic, the treatments are either going on because someone thinks there is still benefit, or someone is making money, or both.
3) Ketamine does have some addictive potential, but not as bad as other drugs. Like there is no withdrawal from ketamine like there is from opioids, heroin, alcohol, etc. Probably as addictive as marijuana. I think prolonged use can cause some bladder issues, but not sure if that's with the oral formulation given daily.
KSBogey
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Please have them use this book for guidance as the medical community lacks knowledge on how to safely taper people off psychotropic medications.

https://www.amazon.com/Maudsley-Guidelines-prescribing-Prescribing/dp/111982298X

As for the depression depending on what the person is taking medication wise, might be the culprit. Many of the meds prescribed for anxiety and depression cause those exact same symptoms, whether long term use (benzos in particular cause depression when taken for a long time as they are nervous system depressants), withdrawal type symptoms experienced between doses if the med has a short half life (called interdose withdrawal) , etc.

I'm here if you'd like to discuss further. I have been thru five years of medication debacle bc of an initial misdiagnosis so have learned a lotttt. Mainly it all being a guessing game, and there is no such thing as a a 'chemical imbalance'. That term was developed by big pharma as a way to market the medications to keep patients for life. Hormone issues, thyroid problems, gut problems usually are the root cause, but root cause isn't usually sought out by conventional medical system. And even so, it's in addition to starting someone on a medication which doesn't silo in his it works…. The meds affect the entire body and systems which is also not discussed enough.

The fact there have been no established guidelines in place for people to come off medications has resulted in serious health complications and people dying as a result.
Thankfully this book has finally been written and should be in every drs office that prescribes. It has the 'Maudsley' accreditation which is the standard for the prescribing side, and now the deprescribing exists.

Again, happy to answer any questions as I've been thru 5 yrs of being started on meds, changed, rapidly improperly taken off (chemical brain injury as a result), misdiagnosed based on symptoms arising from medication rollercoaster seemed underlying issues, health diagnoses as a result of the medications themselves that disappeared once off the meds, etc etc.

Happy to discuss anything if it helps navigate the approach tapering off the meds, but please have them follow this book as it is the safest route to go. A further edition will be released in 2025 for additional med types.

combustion artist
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Bogey
I've been on lexapro for over 10 years. I take it for anxiety and just moodiness. It helps me be less volatile in getting angry or upset and calms my reactions. Lately, over the last 9 plus months I have felt really good and have been considering cutting back. Currently on 20 mg. My thought was to drop to 15 for a month and then 10.

Thoughts on this as well as just slowly getting off it altogether? Any thoughts on micro dosing mushrooms?

Thanks in advance
KSBogey
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Hi there…. I have three copies of the book mentioned above. Would it be ok to send you a copy? I've given out about 30 copies to friends and doctors and would love to send you one.
Or at least let me take pictures of the lexapro section and send you.
From what I've learned that is way too fast (usually 6 months for every year you've been on anti depressants, but I know this seems outrageous for people, yet it is the harm reduction and safest route).

Majority of people are rushed off within 6 months by drs and then told it's their underlying condition coming back when they start having symptoms that are withdrawal type (which can be extreme anxiety and mood stuff which feeds into the thoughts, oh ok, I must stay on these and can't come off).

So let me send you the book or we chat over direct message and send you the lexapro info.
Since drug manufacturers don't make pills in smaller doses which obviously doesn't help the weaning off process, marketing ploy (the typical cut in half, in half again and go to zero 'strategy' told by prescribers, is again very dangerous and zero scientific backing…..they just don't know what else to do).

People get scales to shave and weigh their tablets to make reductions( especially important getting to lower doses by a hyperbolic method is the more safe approach than stairs telling with same dose reduction each time. With hyperbolic you make 5-15% reductions of the current dose all the way down not original dose.

I use a compound Pharmacy up in Arlington, Texas, Pharmacy solutions, Nick Miller is the lead pharmacist and does an incredible job (and we've talked through the book and he's trying his staff with it now).
This enables me to make small reductions with syringes for my medication because I need very small reductions to maintain functionality.

They also are usually options to make your own suspension vehicle… I need to see if this is an option for Lexapro itself, but I know a lot of the medication's a suspension vehicle of maple syrup and water mixed together provide a way to keep the cost down and still be able to use a syringe and taper and small reductions. This is usually favored by people more than trying to shave and weigh their pills and then weigh it on a scale, which is more cumbersome(but it becomes a routine and you get used to it if this is what people want to try).
The scales that are used are on Amazon… Here's a link if people are wanting to try this route. (so we all understand, I get zero kickback from the link.)

https://www.amazon.com/Gemini-Digital-Weighing-Silver-GEMINI-20/dp/B0012TDNAM?tag=hydsma-20&source=dsa&hvcampaign=beautym&gbraid=0AAAAA-byXLqAASP0XYFbigK-FDCaiKHjb&gclid=CjwKCAiApY-7BhBjEiwAQMrrEcovZcScT0xaGVuTmy6rDxZRajENiXrQUdC2IucDfXQmVkQU8kAE8BoC_1IQAvD_BwE

It explains hyperbolic in the book (and I get zero kickback from this book, it has saved my life and peoples that I know after a failure of the typical approach by med professionals in the beginning for my ordeal).

Specific medication Facebook groups offer a lot of support and most of all they've done all the research and understand what can and cannot be done when it comes to tapering each medication type. The moderators understand the hyperbolic approach for most of the main support groups as well as the tapering style types,… There are a lot of other small smaller support groups for each medication, that might not have the knowledge and background to understand the tapering options. This is where the maudsley deprescribing book comes in handy now because it's got all the relevant, credible research backed info in one place.

Surviving in antidepressants website is also a very good resource. However, it can be a bit overwhelming for people at times to navigate. But it has all of the relevant info to keep people safe tapering off these medication's.
It also is where the Doctor Who wrote the deep prescribing guidelines, Dr. Mark Horowitz, who went through all of this after being negligently tapered to quickly off his Lexapro, he took for 20 years, where he first gained support and learned all the information that people had gathered over the years. This combine with his background in microbiology, and he's a psychiatrist himself, provided all the framework for the book.

Again these guidelines are to mitigate some of the more severe symptoms and keep people functional in their lives, while tapering and successfully getting off and staying off. Too many people come off quickly and then have rebound symptoms and again as mentioned before, I told this is your underlining condition and they get back on. This yo-yo of on off can also be problematic and it's not talked about enough. More and more coming out and being shared and with all the support groups created, the medical industry is finally starting to realize a lot of what has been done up till now has been very dangerous.

I'm in no way anti-med, but when you start to understand the background, and how these things are marketed, (to keep people taking them), and the lack of guidelines to take people off of them… It's been quite the overwhelming learning experience, with many repercussions affecting my health. Now I'm getting a lot better and sharing all that I've learned along the way the last five years.

I'm giving a lot of details so that if anyone else is reading this thread, it can be helpful!!

Please, if anybody else needs to reach out, I'm always available over direct message.

On the ketamine side, yes, it can be addictive, and just remember that all the stuff doesn't work in isolation of the rest of the body. Too often people think oh it's just affecting what it needs to in my brain and don't understand that there's far reaching implications for anything ingested. And the lack of informed consent and quick dismissal of the info on the drug label… It just leads people to believe these things are a lot safer than they are. So do your research ahead of time if possible and work through all possible options, with the medication, your last resort(which should be how the standard approaches, but we all know that's not the case!!).
KSBogey
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AG
Here are the lexapro pages… I have no idea if this will work bc never posted pics on here before!

The book has all ADs, benzos, gabapentinoids and z drugs (ambien, lunesta etc).






KSBogey
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Here are the lexapro pages… I have no idea if this will work bc never posted pics on here before!

The book has all ADs, benzos, gabapentinoids and z drugs (ambien, lunesta etc).
Page 1
KSBogey
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AG
Page 2 and 3- lexapro deprescribing guidelines (maudsley)


KSBogey
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Pages 4-6 lexapro deprescribing guidelines (maudsley)



KSBogey
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Page 7- lexapro deprescribing guidelines (maudsley)

Tree Hugger
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Thanks for all the feedback, I'm not sure what meds they are on, but based on their history they will take most anything until specifically told not to. They even have a history of getting a scrip for one issue from their PCP and then seeing a "specialist" for the same issue and getting a different scrip and then will proceed to take both, since they were prescribed by a doctor and all that.
BadMoonRisin
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combustion artist said:

Bogey
I've been on lexapro for over 10 years. I take it for anxiety and just moodiness. It helps me be less volatile in getting angry or upset and calms my reactions. Lately, over the last 9 plus months I have felt really good and have been considering cutting back. Currently on 20 mg. My thought was to drop to 15 for a month and then 10.

Thoughts on this as well as just slowly getting off it altogether? Any thoughts on micro dosing mushrooms?

Thanks in advance

lexapro is bad. After a few days of withdrawl if you taper too quickly, you will start to notice what is referred to as "brain zaps" where you feel slight dizziness or tingly feeling when you turn your head too quickly. it sucks ass and it lasts for days...weeks...months. 6 months for me, and I was only on 10mg/day. Definitely go slow when you taper. If they get too bad, just smash the **** out of a pill and take as little as you can for relief so you can continue going on.

The poster above that said that doctors have no idea how to deal with the taper is 100% on the money. These are not safe drugs to be on long-term or get off.

Microdosing mushrooms is pretty good. Not sure if it helps with the withdrawl, but I stopped using my anxiety meds about 2 years ago and do it occasionally. It does not get you high at all, so dont worry about that. for me it just kind of takes the edge off. I can take it before work and it helps me concentrate a little and relax.

https://www.schedule35.co/us/

there's some research into it that suggests that it can rewire your brain neuroplasticity to treat things like PTSD, anxiety, OCD, depression, addiction, etc.
BadMoonRisin
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AG
OP, here's some more info on Ketamine therapy when I asked about it a few months ago. I never ended up pursuing it, but there is good info here:

https://texags.com/forums/48/topics/3446695
GumboGuy
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AG
I wouldn't say lexapro is bad for everyone. Works great for me and many people.

I also know that a lot of people who don't like it either. Plus the side effects are too much for some.

Ketamine is great. I work with the Veteran population and have seen it do great things for people.

Once I retire from the Army, I may experiment more with psychedelic and mushrooms hehe
OasisMan
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AG
I am guessing it is the intranasal ketamine??
(rather than oral or IV)
IV ketamine is significantly more effective, but it is usually not covered by insurance


The addictive potential is very low,
The side effect potential is very low,
Goal would be to come off other meds (slowly), but this is not always doable

Just like other meds, ketamine is not a 100% certainty

I think there is a very bright future for Ketamine in the behavioral medicine territory,
From a population standpoint, it is way more effective than SSRIs/others and has fewer side effects


For your family member, y'all could consider pharmacogenomic testing to see if they are on appropriate oral agents
texasaggie2015
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AG
I never did Ketamine- but I will say. I had someone recommend I try magnesium glycinate before trying anything else a while back when I was struggling big time with depression. I take about 480mg per day and my life has completely changed.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice, but I recommend they give it a shot and see if it helps. It really did wonders for me.
BadMoonRisin
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AG
Sorry, i mean the withdrawl from lexapro, not the drug itself.
ZigZagWanderer
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combustion artist said:

Bogey
I've been on lexapro for over 10 years. I take it for anxiety and just moodiness. It helps me be less volatile in getting angry or upset and calms my reactions. Lately, over the last 9 plus months I have felt really good and have been considering cutting back. Currently on 20 mg. My thought was to drop to 15 for a month and then 10.

Thoughts on this as well as just slowly getting off it altogether? Any thoughts on micro dosing mushrooms?

Thanks in advance

I'd certainly recommend that you bring this up with your psychiatrist and do this under their supervision. While some people are more sensitive to discontinuation syndrome from SSRIs, I find that it's pretty rare for people to have a difficult time with a slow taper over a few months. I own the Maudsley's book shown below (primarily for benzo tapers) but feel like the tapering schedule for SSRIs is overly conservative for the vast majority of patients. If people end up having difficulty decreasing doses, a common method is to switch to fluoxetine given its pretty long half life that makes tapering easier. Please don't let the information about people having a hard time coming off scare you if you and your psychiatrist decide tapering is wise; the nocebo effect is a real thing.
KSBogey
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AG
Actually switching to fluoxetine is not recommended these days by knowledgeable medical professionals. The Maudsley Deprescribing manual was developed by a psychiatrist who also has a background in microbiology and one of the top researchers in the world for psychotropic medications.
Many people have a difficult time going at the recommended taper pace by their medical prescribers and are told the problems they encounter months later that it is their 'underlying condition' and they need to go back on the medication.

Surviving antidepressants catalogues the many who have difficulties as does all the groups on Facebook who have encountered hell after being tapered off incorrectly by negligent prescribers.

The medication doesn't care if you think it's too long to taper….. the receptor occupancy is still significant for most of these mediations at lower doses. So slowing down at lower doses is the safest way to prevent more severe issues. Ie not jumping off at the smallest tablet dose bc that still Has very high receptor occupancies, yet most med prescribers don't realize you can go lower than tablet values. It just requires getting a liquid compound or making own suspensions as detailed out in the Maudsley book.

Where most medication injuries happen is from jumping off too high and negligent advising of taper speed….. and once that happens , you can't just go back and try again.
It's better to be cautious on the speed and stay highly functional than to come off in a couple months and risk being debilitated for months to years.

And no this isn't a fear thing, it's a studied researched back guidelines for a reason. And how I know- had to become an expert in this navigating hell the last 5 years with this stuff bc none of 30+, drs understood it.

If you were on them and came off in a few months, you're very lucky. (If you were only on a few months then maybe the short use helped).

The more you know, ie informed consent which very few people get these days, is critical.
Max Power
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ZigZagWanderer
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KSBogey said:

Actually switching to fluoxetine is not recommended these days by knowledgeable medical professionals. The Maudsley Deprescribing manual was developed by a psychiatrist who also has a background in microbiology and one of the top researchers in the world for psychotropic medications.
Many people have a difficult time going at the recommended taper pace by their medical prescribers and are told the problems they encounter months later that it is their 'underlying condition' and they need to go back on the medication.

Surviving antidepressants catalogues the many who have difficulties as does all the groups on Facebook who have encountered hell after being tapered off incorrectly by negligent prescribers.

The medication doesn't care if you think it's too long to taper….. the receptor occupancy is still significant for most of these mediations at lower doses. So slowing down at lower doses is the safest way to prevent more severe issues. Ie not jumping off at the smallest tablet dose bc that still Has very high receptor occupancies, yet most med prescribers don't realize you can go lower than tablet values. It just requires getting a liquid compound or making own suspensions as detailed out in the Maudsley book.

Where most medication injuries happen is from jumping off too high and negligent advising of taper speed….. and once that happens , you can't just go back and try again.
It's better to be cautious on the speed and stay highly functional than to come off in a couple months and risk being debilitated for months to years.

And no this isn't a fear thing, it's a studied researched back guidelines for a reason. And how I know- had to become an expert in this navigating hell the last 5 years with this stuff bc none of 30+, drs understood it.

If you were on them and came off in a few months, you're very lucky. (If you were only on a few months then maybe the short use helped).

The more you know, ie informed consent which very few people get these days, is critical.
I'm speaking from both personal experience from being on/stopping an antidepressant as well as being an ivy league trained psychiatrist who has started and stopped these medications on many, many patients. These taper schedules for SRIs have a use in very specific situations but are unnecessary for the great majority of people on these medications. I'm sorry that you had a difficult time coming off of an SRI, but it's not the typical experience of people.
KSBogey
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AG
You can have all the experience you want, it doesn't change someone not reacting well to being tapered too quickly. And once that's happened there isn't a switch you can flip to say oh wait.
I got severe life threatening akathisia bc my psychiatrist tapered me too quickly off of 3 months of Zoloft and she's one of the top psychiatrists in Texas.

You can have all the education in the world and been on the meds on and off yourself….. no single person can predict what will be too fast for someone's body. There is no way to know and once you've induced akathisia which is a hell no one should ever have to experience, it's a hell of a road and more likely to develop it again with further medications.

Again, no amount of training, experience, or brilliance can make you knowledgeable to predict how someone will do coming off a medication bc it's all individualized and a guessing game, which you should know given your background.

I'd be curious how you taper off your patients especially when the lowest available manufactured dose tablets are way too high to come off of CT (cold turkey). What do you recommend your patients do?

Also swapping to Prozac can induce akathisia any single time you have a patient crossover- also would be curious what steps you take to
crossover or do you direct swap over?

Do you use compounded (PCAA accredited) meds? My psych too in houston didn't even know compounding psychotropic meds could be done…. Again one of the top in Tx with 30yrs 'experience.'

I just ask you consider that starting a taper off slower and like what's recommend in the Maudsley guidelines, not CT people off the smallest available dose and realizing you have zero way of knowing how someone will respond getting on or off the meds you prescribe, is critical in not harming patients. (And there are way more out there that even know that's why they are sickly or can't get off the meds thinking it is underlying issue why they were put on).

Thanks.
ZigZagWanderer
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AG
You're absolutely correct that there is no way to predict which patients will experience which side effects, and even though some reactions are incredibly rare I recognize that the statistical rarity of that reaction doesn't matter to the person who experiences it. I counsel my patients about typical signs/symptoms to look out for as they taper off a medication and to reach out if they experience any bothersome symptoms or if they're concerned about anything. I also give them a rough outline of my taper plan for their specific situation, but also let them know that we can try going faster/slower based off their personal preference. My taper plans typically depend on which medication they're on, how long they've been on it, patient characteristics, as well as components of patient preference (among other things). There's no specific schedule that I use every time, because it's quite individualized.

With that being said, to say that the lowest available dose of a medication is "way too high" to stop is generally incorrect. I can't think of a single patient who had more than minor, transient symptoms when stopping the lowest dose of an SRI. I've also had some patients decide that they don't want to take a medication anymore and abruptly stop it from whatever dose they're on, and experience such minimal symptoms that they don't mention it to me until whenever their next appointment is. If one of my patients wanted to stop a medication and follow the Maudsley guidelines for a taper, I'd be more than happy to accommodate. I'd also recommend trying them if one of my patients ultimately has a difficult time with a medication taper. However, while I recognize that there are people who are quite sensitive to medication side effects, including discontinuation syndrome, it doesn't make sense to assume every patient is going to have that experience when it is quite rare. In addition, experiencing discontinuation syndrome, while uncomfortable, is not a life-threatening phenomenon and is correctable.

Ultimately, medicine is as much of an art as it is a science. While the Maudsley book is a great resource, it shouldn't be treated as gospel or an algorithm that should be followed for every patient. In general, I don't like algorithms in psychiatry because I feel like it loses the individualized component of medicine that I believe is important.


combustion artist
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Tapered off lexapro starting in February. Tapered for 3 months and no real issues. Just some insomnia and muscle twitches. I actually think the muscle twitches were from serotonin syndrome.

Fast forward to now, feel great no issues. The biggest change I've seen is that I'm no longer addicted to alcohol. I can easily not drink for weeks and I don't have any cravings to. Some how my body reset to where I was able to get that monkey off my back. Literally had uncontrollable cravings and couldn't stop drinking.

Now I can, what a relief.
KSBogey
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Just seeing this message… Maudsley de- prescribing manual is not a specific one-size-fits-all, it talks about different rates of tapering based on people's symptoms. It's the first of the kind out there that shows the receptor occupancy versus the dosages. A hyperbolic taper has shown to be the safest and most successful for people trying to discontinue psychotropic meds.

All I'm saying is the go to methodology that that's been around forever of the cut in half for a couple weeks then cut it in half for another couple weeks, and then go to zero… That has injured people tremendously. And once the injury has taken place, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. You've been very , very, very lucky, I can't reiterate enough how lucky you are,

Also so you know, over 40% can experience moderate discontinuation symptoms…. Not exactly insignificant. People that do end up having more moderate symptoms get told that it's their underlying condition coming back and that they need to get back on the medicine… When it in reality, they are experiencing discontinuation symptoms. (anxiety, and depression, intrusive thoughts, mental health type stuff etc. can be discontinuation symptoms, but mimic people's 'underlying condition').

Most importantly life-threatening akathisia can be induced by discontinuing any psychotropic medications too quickly. Once this happens, there is no turning back from this. I know this because it happened to me. I hadn't heard of akathisia before I got it. None of my family, friends, colleagues, acquaintances, knew what akathisia was. Nobody told me what it was for over a year until I figured it out. It's listed as 'restlessness' or 'agitation' on drug labels instead of akathisia bc if people looked up what life threatening akathisia is they'd never swallow one thing.
You can get this from getting onto a medication, coming off too quickly, taking one pill…… and why this is so important, is you have zero predictability of who it's going to happen to. Once it happens, that person is susceptible to it for the rest of their life.

I followed my doctors guidance bc I grew up always trusting the medical profession (never needed anything my whole life, just in general the few times needed an antibiotic)….. so I followed their lead and ended up with life threatening akathisia. Akathisia comes from only medication- it is medicine induced, it doesn't exist naturally as a disease or illness. Very few people in the medical world know what it is bc it's not taught in many medical schools.
I have seen over 30 top Drs, every ologist there is, bc I was so debilitated and injured being put on and taken off medications quickly in 2020. I didn't need one pill but believed my Dr who said I had anxiety bc of a panic attack in the hospital after an adverse antibiotic reaction. It was a complete misdiagnosis that almost killed me the last five years many different times.

As I've educated anyone and everyone along the way, both in the medical field and every day people,… they are thankful to learn about it. It can come from over 700 meds. Psychotropic meds, antibiotics, chemo, etc can cause it and the sooner it is recognized the better. Trying to 'treat' it usually causes it to worsen and then people get stuck on more meds that can worsen it and they have to taper those. That some so happened to me- have another nine months or so before I'm off the last of the meds I was given. Over 35 in total in 5 years having never needed one thing. (18 were one off doses to try to 'treat' the akathisia and save my life).

I've come to learn my story is not unique and there are so many people that are in my same situation. This does not get talked about enough and should be something every prescriber is aware of.
I've met so many nurses that are in my same situation that said they can never go back to their profession, knowing how many patients they kept telling to take their meds thinking they had serious mental illness, when they were actually presenting with akathisia.

It's great that some people can come off of psychotropic medications pretty quickly, however, it can be deceiving to themselves or others. I've met people that are on a med for a second or third time in their life - they've tried to rapid taper or cold turkey or because that's what they did the first or second time, or even third time, and it was uneventful. Then this time completely destroyed them . Bed bound , can't work, some even worse.

Also, with many antidepressants, people usually feel pretty good the first few months after coming off in a couple months… And things start to unravel around month five or six off of the med and it leads them to think they need to be back on the med. I'm seeing this with multiple friends and their kids that were prescribed various medications in college for stress.
I'm grateful to help them through this, I just wish they were never in the situation.

The more you know… Seriously the more you know is super important with these meds.

I'll leave this as my last comment-, I found out during my last five years that the Xanax study that was conducted for FDA approval didn't have the full results published. Don't quote me because I don't have access to the actual numbers and I'm going off memory right now, but the results that were reported were the six or eight week mark instead of the ending time period because every single participant was worse off at the end of the study. (I believe that was 12 week marker.) The six or eight week results published had around half the people still doing OK , and drug approval was made off of that. This comes from someone who worked for the FDA and has seen behind the scenes in approving psychotropic meds as they are a psychiatrist.
It is sickening to know that ethics have failed the industry and lives have been lost in order to deceive the public.

Oh, and I'm curious if you were ever told by Pharma reps to tell your patience that they have a 'chemical imbalance'? Some other psychiatrist that have gotten out of the profession have mentioned that this was a marketing tool told to doctors so that they would have patients for life. This now has even more weight given the chemical imbalance has been disproved and I've had this discussion with my own doctors who have admitted as such given we discussed the research I've done now that I'm doing better. It again has been really really shocking.

I haven't gone back and looked at my older post so apologies if this is repetitive.

Glad you are following the patient led way of coming off of medications, just remember to preach to them to not try to use the willpower and tough it out if their bodies are screaming at them to slow down ….because that doesn't overcome some of these horrific medications and potentially subsequent akathisia. I have extremely strong willpower and if willpower was the way, I'd have been healed a long time ago. Take care.
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