Does anyone have some recommendations or resources for a delayed vaccine schedule and some insight into vaccines that can be skipped?

I've already decided HepB can wait as there's no conceivable risk as an infant or child. Would love to hear some advice from any of you who've gone this route.

Thanks in advance.

I found our pediatrician to be quite helpful in this. We delayed vaccines as one of our kids had transient hypogammaglobulinemia of infancy. We worried that given his lack of an immune system, the vaccine wouldn't take or he would get sick from it. We delayed all the live vaccines. Doctor was supportive. We caught him back up over time as his immune system developed.

There is no evidence that delayed schedules are any safer. In fact the evidence shows that all you are doing is leaving a vulnerable infant exposed to infection due to your own anxieties.

If I have to pick (which happens far too often) the infant vaccines from most to least urgent.

1) DTaP- whooping cough is bad
2) PCV- step pneumo is a viscous bacteria, have had two cases in the last 12 months- one needed chest surgery for pneumonia and a chest tube the other had an ear infection go to the bone and brain.


Those are the most important, then you have HiB and polio- you don't want to catch those either but cases are VERY rare in USA due to decades of effective and safe vaccination.

Rota- rotavirus sucks for babies but nobody in the USA dies from this. It will likely land your infant in the ER/hospital for IVF though.

Hep B as you mentioned correctly is minimal to no risk for infants with prenatal labs.


Those are the 2,4,6 month vaccines.

Also note that the combo shots all have hep B. So if you decide to delay hep B that means more actual injections.


And just to show due diligence, this is the AI query on delayed vaccine schedules:

There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that delayed vaccine schedules are safer for infants in the USA. In fact, delaying vaccinations
can put infants at greater risk of contracting serious and potentially life-threatening diseases.
Here's why:

Increased Vulnerability: Infants have
developing immune systems and are most vulnerable to infectious diseases in their early months. Vaccinating on schedule provides protection when they
need it most.
Disease Exposure: Many serious childhood diseases are still present in the USA and globally. Delaying vaccination leaves infants
unprotected during periods when they are likely to encounter these pathogens.
Community Immunity (Herd Immunity): High vaccination rates in a
community create "herd immunity," which protects individuals who cannot be vaccinated (e.g., newborns, those with weakened immune systems). Delayed
vaccination of a significant number of children weakens this protective barrier.
Scientific Consensus: The vast majority of medical and scientific
organizations worldwide, including the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and the World
Health Organization (WHO), strongly endorse and recommend the standard childhood immunization schedule. This schedule has been meticulously developed
and refined over decades based on extensive scientific research, clinical trials, and real-world data.
Rigorous Testing and Monitoring: Vaccines
undergo rigorous testing for safety and efficacy before being approved for use. Their safety is continuously monitored even after approval. The
vaccine schedule is designed to optimize protection while minimizing any potential, very rare side effects.

Where does the idea of delayed schedules
come from?
The idea often stems from:

Misinformation and Disinformation: Unfounded claims about vaccine safety, particularly concerns about
overwhelming the immune system or causing adverse effects, are often amplified on social media and by anti-vaccine groups. These claims are not
supported by scientific evidence.
Personal Anecdotes: While a parent's desire to do what's best for their child is understandable, personal anecdotes
are not scientific evidence. Decisions about public health and medical treatments must be based on well-designed scientific studies.
Misinterpretation
of Data: Sometimes, legitimate scientific discussions about vaccine development or theoretical immunological processes are misinterpreted or taken out
of context to support delayed schedules.

What are the risks of delaying vaccinations?

Increased Risk of Infection: The primary risk is that the
child remains susceptible to diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, polio, diphtheria, pertussis (whooping cough), tetanus, and others.
Higher Risk of
Complications: These diseases can lead to severe complications, including pneumonia, encephalitis (brain inflammation), meningitis, paralysis, hearing
loss, birth defects (if the mother contracts rubella during pregnancy), and even death.
Outbreaks: Lower vaccination rates due to delayed schedules
can lead to outbreaks of preventable diseases, putting entire communities at risk.
Missed Opportunities: Delaying vaccinations can lead to confusion,
missed appointments, and ultimately, incomplete vaccination.

In conclusion, there is no evidence to support the belief that delayed vaccine schedules
are safer. The current recommended schedule is designed to provide optimal protection against serious diseases at the most critical times in a child's
early development, based on decades of scientific research and ongoing safety monitoring. Always consult with a trusted healthcare provider for
accurate information and guidance on your child's vaccination schedule.

MRB10 said:

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The Vaccine Book - R. Spears

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His isn't terrible but again there is zero evidence his schedule is safer and it leaves your infant exposed to potentially dangerous pathogens.

Quinn said:

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KidDoc/Bigtruck - what do yall think will be the consequences of Florida moving to remove all vaccine mandates for schools? I'll be curious to see how low the vaccination rate drops once that is implemented.

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I practice in Texas and our rates are already plummeting as Texas can already decline vaccine for any reason. I suspect we will see some sustained outbreaks of preventable diseases in 3-4 years and that will likely scare people straight and get them to get vaccinated. It is mostly a matter of how many kids are we willing to see die or crippled in the interim.

I lean libertarian so happy families can decide, but they often decide on misinformed algorithms fueled by their own anxiety.

KidDoc said:

---

There is no evidence that delayed schedules are any safer. In fact the evidence shows that all you are doing is leaving a vulnerable infant exposed to infection due to your own anxieties.

If I have to pick (which happens far too often) the infant vaccines from most to least urgent.

1) DTaP- whooping cough is bad
2) PCV- step pneumo is a viscous bacteria, have had two cases in the last 12 months- one needed chest surgery for pneumonia and a chest tube the other had an ear infection go to the bone and brain.


Those are the most important, then you have HiB and polio- you don't want to catch those either but cases are VERY rare in USA due to decades of effective and safe vaccination.

Rota- rotavirus sucks for babies but nobody in the USA dies from this. It will likely land your infant in the ER/hospital for IVF though.

Hep B as you mentioned correctly is minimal to no risk for infants with prenatal labs.


Those are the 2,4,6 month vaccines.

Also note that the combo shots all have hep B. So if you decide to delay hep B that means more actual injections.


And just to show due diligence, this is the AI query on delayed vaccine schedules:

There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that delayed vaccine schedules are safer for infants in the USA. In fact, delaying vaccinations
can put infants at greater risk of contracting serious and potentially life-threatening diseases.
Here's why:

Increased Vulnerability: Infants have
developing immune systems and are most vulnerable to infectious diseases in their early months. Vaccinating on schedule provides protection when they
need it most.
Disease Exposure: Many serious childhood diseases are still present in the USA and globally. Delaying vaccination leaves infants
unprotected during periods when they are likely to encounter these pathogens.
Community Immunity (Herd Immunity): High vaccination rates in a
community create "herd immunity," which protects individuals who cannot be vaccinated (e.g., newborns, those with weakened immune systems). Delayed
vaccination of a significant number of children weakens this protective barrier.
Scientific Consensus: The vast majority of medical and scientific
organizations worldwide, including the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and the World
Health Organization (WHO), strongly endorse and recommend the standard childhood immunization schedule. This schedule has been meticulously developed
and refined over decades based on extensive scientific research, clinical trials, and real-world data.
Rigorous Testing and Monitoring: Vaccines
undergo rigorous testing for safety and efficacy before being approved for use. Their safety is continuously monitored even after approval. The
vaccine schedule is designed to optimize protection while minimizing any potential, very rare side effects.

Where does the idea of delayed schedules
come from?
The idea often stems from:

Misinformation and Disinformation: Unfounded claims about vaccine safety, particularly concerns about
overwhelming the immune system or causing adverse effects, are often amplified on social media and by anti-vaccine groups. These claims are not
supported by scientific evidence.
Personal Anecdotes: While a parent's desire to do what's best for their child is understandable, personal anecdotes
are not scientific evidence. Decisions about public health and medical treatments must be based on well-designed scientific studies.
Misinterpretation
of Data: Sometimes, legitimate scientific discussions about vaccine development or theoretical immunological processes are misinterpreted or taken out
of context to support delayed schedules.

What are the risks of delaying vaccinations?

Increased Risk of Infection: The primary risk is that the
child remains susceptible to diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, polio, diphtheria, pertussis (whooping cough), tetanus, and others.
Higher Risk of
Complications: These diseases can lead to severe complications, including pneumonia, encephalitis (brain inflammation), meningitis, paralysis, hearing
loss, birth defects (if the mother contracts rubella during pregnancy), and even death.
Outbreaks: Lower vaccination rates due to delayed schedules
can lead to outbreaks of preventable diseases, putting entire communities at risk.
Missed Opportunities: Delaying vaccinations can lead to confusion,
missed appointments, and ultimately, incomplete vaccination.

In conclusion, there is no evidence to support the belief that delayed vaccine schedules
are safer. The current recommended schedule is designed to provide optimal protection against serious diseases at the most critical times in a child's
early development, based on decades of scientific research and ongoing safety monitoring. Always consult with a trusted healthcare provider for
accurate information and guidance on your child's vaccination schedule.

---

Really appreciate all the information. Thank you

KidDoc said:

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Quinn said:

---

KidDoc/Bigtruck - what do yall think will be the consequences of Florida moving to remove all vaccine mandates for schools? I'll be curious to see how low the vaccination rate drops once that is implemented.

---

I practice in Texas and our rates are already plummeting as Texas can already decline vaccine for any reason. I suspect we will see some sustained outbreaks of preventable diseases in 3-4 years and that will likely scare people straight and get them to get vaccinated. It is mostly a matter of how many kids are we willing to see die or crippled in the interim.

I lean libertarian so happy families can decide, but they often decide on misinformed algorithms fueled by their own anxiety.

---

Agree. A lot of people like using the term/acronym FAFO these days. I think we're in the FA stage. Unfortunately, a lot of public health decisions have momentum behind them. It's not an easy switch to just flip when something bad happens. It'll take time for herd immunity to wane, and in the interim people will say "see, I didn't vaccinate my child, and we're fine." And then once herd immunity drops below critical levels, and we start seeing outbreaks, and (God forbid) death, we'll start seeing people panic and want a quick fix.

Over the past decade or two we've seen children die from vaccine preventable diseases, and we've seen some get hospitalized and hundreds of thousands of dollars spend on keeping them alive, or keeping them from suffering irreversible harm. Meanwhile a $10 vaccine could have prevented it.

Vaccines are a victim of their own success. People today have never seen someone in an iron lung, have never seen (or rarely seen) someone walking around with a polio limp, have never seen someone in severe muscle spasms from tetanus, a child that couldn't breathe because a plaque was growing in the throat and blocking the airway, boys with orchitis that'll develop sterility later in life, or a baby coughing so much that it can't breathe. Luckily I've only rarely seen some of those either.

I wonder if next they'll tell public health departments to stop forcing people with TB to take their antibiotics.

SquirrellyDan said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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KidDoc said:

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Quinn said:

---

KidDoc/Bigtruck - what do yall think will be the consequences of Florida moving to remove all vaccine mandates for schools? I'll be curious to see how low the vaccination rate drops once that is implemented.

---

I practice in Texas and our rates are already plummeting as Texas can already decline vaccine for any reason. I suspect we will see some sustained outbreaks of preventable diseases in 3-4 years and that will likely scare people straight and get them to get vaccinated. It is mostly a matter of how many kids are we willing to see die or crippled in the interim.

I lean libertarian so happy families can decide, but they often decide on misinformed algorithms fueled by their own anxiety.

---

Agree. A lot of people like using the term/acronym FAFO these days. I think we're in the FA stage. Unfortunately, a lot of public health decisions have momentum behind them. It's not an easy switch to just flip when something bad happens. It'll take time for herd immunity to wane, and in the interim people will say "see, I didn't vaccinate my child, and we're fine." And then once herd immunity drops below critical levels, and we start seeing outbreaks, and (God forbid) death, we'll start seeing people panic and want a quick fix.

Over the past decade or two we've seen children die from vaccine preventable diseases, and we've seen some get hospitalized and hundreds of thousands of dollars spend on keeping them alive, or keeping them from suffering irreversible harm. Meanwhile a $10 vaccine could have prevented it.

Vaccines are a victim of their own success. People today have never seen someone in an iron lung, have never seen (or rarely seen) someone walking around with a polio limp, have never seen someone in severe muscle spasms from tetanus, a child that couldn't breathe because a plaque was growing in the throat and blocking the airway, boys with orchitis that'll develop sterility later in life, or a baby coughing so much that it can't breathe. Luckily I've only rarely seen some of those either.

I wonder if next they'll tell public health departments to stop forcing people with TB to take their antibiotics.

---

You've seen someone with tetanus spasms? I'm fine with the tetanus vaccine as it's well established. It's some of the newer ones (and HepB) I just can't come to terms with. And fear mongering. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the toxin that turns into tetanus must fester and be deprived of oxygen for a significant amount of time in a wound. This isn't happening to any infant or young child that is being cared for, vaccinated or unvaccinated. Yes, tetanus is deadly. No, if your kid is being attended to by halfway decent parents the kid isn't going to die from tetanus .

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I've never seen Tetanus as the vast majority of people understand the risk and trust an 80 year old vaccine that works. Old data shows that the bacteria starts producing the irreversible neurotoxin within 72 hours of innoculation. It is foolhardy to risk that to avoid theoretical risk of a very old and proven vaccine.

If you want to leave your child open to preventable illness I belive that is your right. Personally and professionally I think it is folly and couldn't live with my child dying due to my excessive anxiety and social media algorithms that feed that anxiety. Even worse would be my unvaccinated child spreading a preventable illness and killing a Neonate.

SquirrellyDan said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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KidDoc said:

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Quinn said:

---

KidDoc/Bigtruck - what do yall think will be the consequences of Florida moving to remove all vaccine mandates for schools? I'll be curious to see how low the vaccination rate drops once that is implemented.

---

I practice in Texas and our rates are already plummeting as Texas can already decline vaccine for any reason. I suspect we will see some sustained outbreaks of preventable diseases in 3-4 years and that will likely scare people straight and get them to get vaccinated. It is mostly a matter of how many kids are we willing to see die or crippled in the interim.

I lean libertarian so happy families can decide, but they often decide on misinformed algorithms fueled by their own anxiety.

---

Agree. A lot of people like using the term/acronym FAFO these days. I think we're in the FA stage. Unfortunately, a lot of public health decisions have momentum behind them. It's not an easy switch to just flip when something bad happens. It'll take time for herd immunity to wane, and in the interim people will say "see, I didn't vaccinate my child, and we're fine." And then once herd immunity drops below critical levels, and we start seeing outbreaks, and (God forbid) death, we'll start seeing people panic and want a quick fix.

Over the past decade or two we've seen children die from vaccine preventable diseases, and we've seen some get hospitalized and hundreds of thousands of dollars spend on keeping them alive, or keeping them from suffering irreversible harm. Meanwhile a $10 vaccine could have prevented it.

Vaccines are a victim of their own success. People today have never seen someone in an iron lung, have never seen (or rarely seen) someone walking around with a polio limp, have never seen someone in severe muscle spasms from tetanus, a child that couldn't breathe because a plaque was growing in the throat and blocking the airway, boys with orchitis that'll develop sterility later in life, or a baby coughing so much that it can't breathe. Luckily I've only rarely seen some of those either.

I wonder if next they'll tell public health departments to stop forcing people with TB to take their antibiotics.

---

You've seen someone with tetanus spasms? I'm fine with the tetanus vaccine as it's well established. It's some of the newer ones (and HepB) I just can't come to terms with. And fear mongering. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the toxin that turns into tetanus must fester and be deprived of oxygen for a significant amount of time in a wound. This isn't happening to any infant or young child that is being cared for, vaccinated or unvaccinated. Yes, tetanus is deadly. No, if your kid is being attended to by halfway decent parents the kid isn't going to die from tetanus .

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I have not personally seen tetanus spasm, however older docs I know have. I have seen whooping cough though, as well as hepatitis A & B, meningococcal meningitis, and people with limps from having polio as a child.

But in regards to tetanus, I was referring to this case of an Oregon boy a few years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/unvaccinated-boy-spent-57-days-in-hospital-anti-vaxx-parents-still-refuse-shots-2019-3

Then, of course, there were the recent deaths in Texas from measles. And people trying to argue that it wasn't the measles that killed the child, but pneumonia. Not realizing that measles is the cause of viral pneumonia.

Clostridium tetani is an anaerobic bacteria that thrives in low oxygen environments. It's not that a parent isn't caring for their child that they get tetanus, in fact this kids parents apparently took care of his scalp wound at home. But deep wounds simply seed bacteria in places where the immune system and good blood flow have a hard time getting to them. Even in adults, that are fully capable of washing out their own wounds, they get tetanus from deep puncture wounds most commonly.

Is it funny or are more people starting to realize "hey maybe we shouldn't pump these newborns full of metals all at
Once"

Or "maybe there's correlation to all these kids being put on medications for autism and diagnosed and incredible percentages"

But maybe it's just funny and a goofy trend

Langley said:

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Is it funny or are more people starting to realize "hey maybe we shouldn't pump these newborns full of metals all at
Once"

Or "maybe there's correlation to all these kids being put on medications for autism and diagnosed and incredible percentages"

But maybe it's just funny and a goofy trend

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Or let's just leave our children open to preventable disease due to our own anxiety. The autism trend isn't the vaccines, I have many unvaxed autistic patients. I believe it is issues with our food system, all the non food that our parents and kids are addicted to that is "assumed" to be safe and hasn't been studied at all. You don't have all that crap in the food system in countries with lower incidences of autism.

Langley said:

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Is it funny or are more people starting to realize "hey maybe we shouldn't pump these newborns full of metals all at
Once"

Or "maybe there's correlation to all these kids being put on medications for autism and diagnosed and incredible percentages"

But maybe it's just funny and a goofy trend

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You are uneducated and should probably listen to the doctor who's giving you free advice.

The main problem leading to vaccine hesitancy is no one likely knows anybody who lost a child to a vaccine preventable disease. I think the lifting of vaccine requirements in Florida will change that. I suspect in 5-10 years, the community health data will be undeniable in favor of vaccination. Its a shame we have to endure children dying to reverse the hesitancy. In the 50-60s, everyone signed up there child for the oral polio virus vaccine fully knowing a significant chance that some who received the vaccine would develop the full blown disease (inactivate polio vaccine used now does not do this). They did this because everyone had a family member that had died or was maimed by polio.

I do have to admit the medical community gave itself a black eye with the Covid vaccine rollout. Additionally, I am concerned with the AAPs cozy relationship with pharmaceutical companies. Covid vaccine aside, I feel comfortable in recommending the regular vaccine schedule. I, just like Kiddoc mentioned, have seen what some of the illnesses do and it both scares and saddens me.

Everybody seems to forget or never learned, there is already a similar case study for the this. In the '90s, a paper was published claiming a link between Autism and the MMR vaccine. The paper was later withdrawn when it was shown the data was fraudulent. Nonetheless, the damage was done. British Health services stop vaccinating with the MMR for over a decade. Measles, Mumps, and Rubella cases skyrocketed. And the Autism rate continued to climb at the exact same rate it was climbing before the vaccine was discontinued proving zero causation. As I said earlier, we are about to unnecessarily run a similar study in Florida.

You're telling me I should listen to someone who is highly educated and has real world experience on this topic??? Psssh, I'll just keep listening to RFK and Jenny McCarthy.

Captain Winky said:

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You're telling me I should listen to someone who is highly educated and has real world experience on this topic??? Psssh, I'll just keep listening to RFK and Jenny McCarthy.

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Maybe Dunning-Kruger should be called RFK-McCarthy syndrome.

chico said:

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FIDO95 said:

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The main problem leading to vaccine hesitancy is no one likely knows anybody who lost a child to a vaccine preventable disease.

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I still remember elementary school (1960's) where they showed us films of Polio-infected people living in iron lungs. Much like the gross-out flicks many saw of car crashes when they were taking driver's ed. That stuff stays with you. Thank goodness my mother would always get me vaccinated for whatever the doc recommended. And we did the same for our children.

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And when you visit an old cemetery, you see rows of infants and children, mostly dead from things we have under control or have eradicated due to clean water, antibiotics, germ theory, vaccines, nutrition, etc. People are so pessimistic, and fail to realize that right now is the best time to be alive in all of human history. Our maladies are more likely to be self-inflicted than caused by communicable disease. Skepticism toward science is good. But we are now in a place where irrational prejudice and anti-science are normative. Although Oppenheimer wasn't the greatest movie, I could relate to the contempt expressed toward brilliance, prescience, and intuition.