November 19, 1863 the Gettysburg Address

2,397 Views | 17 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by pmart
ABATTBQ87
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AG
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth upon this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate we can not consecrate we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Abraham Lincoln
Sapper Redux
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Either this or Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address is the greatest speech in American history.
BTHOB
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AG
"...that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Ha! This is after he suspended the writ of habeas corpus, right? This is after he allowed the indefinite detention of "disloyal persons" without trial? Talk about speaking with a forked tongue!

While he did many great things, he was also the ultimate hypocrite as he ignored a Supreme Court justice's decision overturning his order and continued to allow new restrictions which, among other things imposed martial law in some border areas and curbed freedom of speech and the press throughout the Northern states. Roger Taney, the chief justice of the Supreme Court, issued a ruling that President Lincoln did NOT have the authority to suspend habeas corpus, but Lincoln didn't respond, appeal, or order the release of unconstitutionally imprisoned individuals. Instead, during a July 4 speech (no less), Lincoln was defiant and insisted that he needed to suspend the rules in order to put down any rebellion.

Five years later, a new Supreme Court basically backed up Justice Taney's ruling: In an unrelated case, the court held that only Congress could suspend habeas corpus and that civilians were not subject to military courts, EVEN IN TIMES OF WAR.

Lincoln gets credit for a great many things (deservedly so). But, he should also shoulder the blame for great transgressions. People love the spirit of the Gettysburg address. While his points regarding the hallowed ground and the memory of the fallen are well-spoken and applicable, his other verbiage regarding government of, by, and for the people should be read with the grain of salt which accompanies his hypocrisy on that particular subject. If he had omitted that last part from the speech, I would agree that it was a wonderful speech. Including that verbiage taints the speech with political irony and a sense of 'playing to the crowd without really meaning it.'
KingofHazor
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Sapper Redux said:

Either this or Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address is the greatest speech in American history.
I attended a Lincoln Day dinner in Albuquerque back in the late 80s. Jack Kemp was the keynote speaker and started off his talk by noting that all of the great speeches in history were very short, using the Gettysburg Address as his first example. He also noted that the AC in the building was not working, making the temperature in the banquet hall a very uncomfortable 85+ degrees.

Kemp then proceeded to talk for an hour and a half!

Sorry for the derail, but perhaps an example of a not-so-great speech serves to highlight the greatness of the Gettysburg Address by contrast?
CanyonAg77
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AG
Didn't some famous orator give an hour long speech just before Lincoln?
Sapper Redux
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Edward Everett, who was considered the preeminent orator of the era. He spoke for two hours. Later he wrote Lincoln to say, "I should be glad if I could flatter myself that I came as near to the central idea of the occasion, in two hours, as you did in two minutes."
KingofHazor
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And didn't the press, following the speeches, universally praise Everett's speech and criticize Lincoln's? Or is that merely legend?

BTW, I now live in S. Central PA, very near a town named Everett after that all-but-forgotten orator.
BQ78
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AG
Like today, the press was very biased. So press loyal to Lincoln praised it and Democratic and Radical Republican press denounced it as too short and not appropriate to the occasion.

Lincoln didn't get much love in the press until he was dead, then he was a martyr for the Union.

From the time of the Gettysburg Address to the death of Lincoln, Grant was the one true hero of the Union.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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Wasn't his suspension of habeas corpus more of a glitch in the inauguration system? He was inaugurated a month before the new Congress took office? And then they essentially backed up Lincoln's decision, right?
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
OldArmy71
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AG
Great speech. Great man. Great president.

For several years I had my high school juniors in AP English memorize the Address. I am now Facebook friends with a number of them who still have it memorized, 30 years later.
BTHOB
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AG
The Supreme Court overturned his order, but he ignored them. Maybe he felt it was necessary, but it was unconstitutional (as decreed by the Supreme Court). I only point out the hypocrisy in the words used for the Gettysburg Address and his actual actions.
Sapper Redux
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There was a national election in 1864 for the presidency in the middle of the greatest crisis our nation has ever faced. Lincoln not only did nothing to interfere with the electoral process, said nothing about putting off or avoiding an election, but was actively preparing to assist McClellan when it seemed like he might lose.

I see this stuff about Habeas Corpus get tossed around, and I'm not going to claim it was a shining moment in Lincoln's presidency, but if that's the worst he did during a Civil War, when rumors and panic were flying around across the nation, I'd say he did pretty well.
BTHOB
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AG
I never judged his presidency. I said his actions regarding unlawful suspension of rights contradicted the verbiage of the Gettysburg Address and tainted an otherwise touching speech.
pagerman @ work
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AG
It's an amazing bit of writing, and an amazingly condensed statement of the essence of the American experiment.

That said, it's obvious from the text that Lincoln was only obliquely talking about Gettysburg and was much more interested in framing the war as a "great patriotic war" to preserve not simply the Union, but representative government itself, and to bolster the idea of changing the war aims from status quo ante (preserve the Union) to ending slavery and freeing the slaves by appealing to the ideas expressed in the Declaration of Independence. Obviously this effort was massively successful as it is still the dominant narrative about the war.

But my question is (great wordsmithing and sentimentality aside) would the north losing the civil war would have meant that "government of the people, by the people and for the people" would have actually "perished from the earth"?
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
pmart
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If we are concerned about hypocrisy, we can go all the way back to "all men are created equal" while upholding the institution of slavery since that was the root cause of the war anyway.
BQ78
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AG
I think you could say that secession and nullification used routinely by the minority would end the idea.
BTHOB
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AG
We could, indeed! We could even go back further than that. But, I was just responding to the comments focused on the "greatness" of the Gettysburg Address. The words of the address are great; the actions of the man speaking them are hypocritical.

There are many other cases in history where this is the case. I'm trying to stay on the topic at hand. We can start another thread to discuss other instances of hypocrisy, if you'd like.
KingofHazor
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BTHOB said:

We could, indeed! We could even go back further than that. But, I was just responding to the comments focused on the "greatness" of the Gettysburg Address. The words of the address are great; the actions of the man speaking them are hypocritical.

There are many other cases in history where this is the case. I'm trying to stay on the topic at hand. We can start another thread to discuss other instances of hypocrisy, if you'd like.
It might be more interesting, and perhaps much more difficult, to find leaders who were not hypocritical or had no other major flaws to one extent or another.
pmart
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Understood, a whole thread could be dedicated to Thomas Jefferson's hypocrisy alone.
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