Interesting question. Britain signed a treaty promising to protect Poland from German invasion. It said nothing about the Soviets and protecting Poland from them . That's all I got and to note they didn't do anything for Finland either when the Soviets invade a few months later.

Huh. I've never thought about this before. Good question.

my guess is they thought they still could negotiate a way outta war. Remember they declared war and then did nothing on land, it was called the Phony War.

Great analysis.

Stalin gamed everyone.

Ussr invaded more countries and killed more people and did more nasty **** than the nazis ever dreamed of, and were far more dangerous, from the day they took over, right up through their invasion of Poland, and ever since.

No one likes nazis except nazis.

But Commies had useful idiot spies actually running big parts of british and french governments, and ours. I dont know what to think of fdr's complicity, but it is beyond dispute now that the soviets literally ran the us state and treasury departments from the depression through ww2

The brits basically goaded poland into poking hitler, and intended hitler and stalin to duke it out from the start. The pact blew up in their faces, temporarily.

They were not about to declare war on both, and germany was between stalin and the west.
Had to choose the lesser of two evils.

Aggie1205 said:

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Same sources as your previous ones that had the US intentionally killing millions of Germans after the war?

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Lol, what the **** ever. I posted real data, no one refuted it, and now you are mischaracterizing it.

I've read a **** ton of declassified material about this topic. Just because you dont like the fact that 'uncle joe' our friendly commie actually wasnt such a nice guy….

Uhhhh yeah it was refuted.

The Nazis killed more than the Soviets. Not trying to downplay what Stalin did, but the numbers often tossed around like 25 million dead are not born out by the records or basic demographic reality. It's more like 9 million for Stalin and 17-18 million for the Nazis (not including the Germans Hitler killed for his war).

And this,

Quote:

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but it is beyond dispute now that the soviets literally ran the us state and treasury departments from the depression through ww2

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is a joke. Literally ran State and Treasury? Hyperbole much?

Jabin said:

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Quote:

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The Nazis killed more than the Soviets. Not trying to downplay what Stalin did, but the numbers often tossed around like 25 million dead are not born out by the records or basic demographic reality. It's more like 9 million for Stalin

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Do you mean deaths attributable to Stalin only during the war or during his entire regime?

What do you mean by "basic demographic reality"?

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Through his regime. The 60 million number given by people like Solzhenitsyn (who went up to claims of 110 million) is really not based in the historical record. The 20-25 million was a western estimate given before the opening of Soviet archives. The 9 million number is based on the numbers in the archives and includes a "buffer" for deaths attributable to Stalin but not measured in the actual archives. Demographically, losing 25 million people (to say nothing of numbers like 60 million) is not just a quick coverup where everything continues to hum along. There are significant effects across multiple levels of society.

Yeah, losing 9 million is no biggie.

Jabin said:

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Yeah, losing 9 million is no biggie.

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I was hoping someone else would make this misrepresentation of my claim. I'm not saying 9 million is not an absolute tragedy and that Stalin is anything less than a monster who deserves all the scorn that has been heaped upon him. I'm more pointing out the way history gets distorted and then the way those distortions get used.

Sapper Redux said:

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The Nazis killed more than the Soviets. Not trying to downplay what Stalin did, but the numbers often tossed around like 25 million dead are not born out by the records or basic demographic reality. It's more like 9 million for Stalin and 17-18 million for the Nazis (not including the Germans Hitler killed for his war).

And this,

Quote:

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but it is beyond dispute now that the soviets literally ran the us state and treasury departments from the depression through ww2

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is a joke. Literally ran State and Treasury? Hyperbole much?

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No. Soviet spies literally ran those departments for years, now declassified.

research people like Morganthau, harry dexter white, etc.

it is not a coincidence that US foreign policy literally saved and facilitated the soviet military industrial machine through the 30's, created the soviet aerospace industry, all for free, literally gave away tech and industrial equipment, plants, and know how to the soviets, and then through lend-lease continued to deliver free everything to the soviets even through 1945, long after they should have known better.

It is not coincidence that in contrast, we refused to give the british much of anything free, and deliberately destroyed the british empire with debt, collapsed western europe's foreign holdings without any good plan to replace it. It is not a coincidence that we put Mao in power, nor that we maneuvered japan into Pearl Harbor to save Stalin's ass and bring us into the war. This was all done largely by the maneuvers of actual soviet spies in our government.

https://www.wearethemighty.com/popular/morgenthau-plan-postwar-germany-wwii/


https://www.historyonthenet.com/soviet-mole-harry-whites-efforts-to-trigger-the-pearl-harbor-attack


It can be debated whether germany and japan combined were worse than the soviet union, but it cannot be debated that we picked sides at least in part for the wrong reasons and based upon subversive tactics.