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Why I don't want Klieman from KState (game management vs. 'sips)

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Divining Rod
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11:23a, 11/21/23

Yeah, it's just one game, but it was a HUGE game for KState. Finally a chance to get the 'sip monkey off their back (KSt had lost 6 in a row to Texas).

KState was down 27-7, then started a comeback from mid 3rd Qtr. Catching Texas with about 12 min left in game, they tied it 27-27 with chance to take the lead 28-27. BLUNDER #1: CORRECTION (Thank you to Untold Spirit below) KSt DID try to kick the PAT- a botched snap/hold forced them to try to run for the conversion) After a Texas offside, he decides to go for 2 instead of the lead that would give them the edge in any scoring see-saw the rest of the way. Texas holds. (Again did not hapoen- I left this here for tracking purposes of responses...)

KSt was dominating 2nd half- total yards were 219yds to 118 for 'sips. Last 5 possessions were:
KSt: TD TD TD MissedFG FG
Tex: FG Int Fumble FG Punt

With 2 min left, KSt was down 3 (27-30) and facing 3rd and 1 at the Texas 8. BLUNDER #2 Kleiman goes to a pistol, then sends the RB in motion so it is the QB alone in the shotgun 7 yards deep and they try a QB run off tackle. KSt had no success running the QB all day and he had a negative 20 yds rushing. Texas snuffs it out for a 3 yard loss and Kst misses a FG.

KSt then holds Texas using 3 timeouts and gets ball back with 1:30. They drive the field and kick a 45yd FG to tie the game 30-30 and send it to OT.

KSt wins flip and goes on D. AGAIN, the 'sip offense stalls, gains 1 yd in 3 plays and kicks a clutch 42yd FG to go up 33-30. Now KSt has all the momentum. They drive down immediately to the Texas 6yd line. QB runs for 2 to the 4. 2nd down, they try a fake QB run/pass but pass is batted down near the LOS. 3rd down, KSt tries a pass in end zone that is nowhere near a receiver. HUGE BLUNDER #3 Now facing 4th and goal from the 4yd line, and with a Texas offense that is doing NOTHING, KSt needs a FG to send it to double OT. Instead, they run a pass play from shotgun- QB is sacked under pressure and game ends.


Yeah, it's one game, but those decisions were some of the worst I've seen in a long long time- especially because there were 3 of them all in the 4th qtr of a HUGE game (KSt basically playing to remain in the B12 playoff hunt).

Hard pass on this coach.
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SA68AG
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11:27a, 11/21/23
AG
Agree. He made one dumb ass decision after another in crucial moments.
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Emilio Fantastico
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11:57a, 11/21/23
AG
He was like Jimbo shuffling through his Denny's menu
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halfastros81
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12:02p, 11/21/23
AG
He also won i believe 3 straight fcs championships at ND St and is consistently competitive with a subpar roster for a p5 school. I agree he was really bad in that game tho.
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AgOutsideAustin
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12:02p, 11/21/23
AG
Yep he shat the bed that game.
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Tickethead
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12:05p, 11/21/23
AG
One game against the team you loath the most in the universe should not override the entire sample size.
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hgc159
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12:19p, 11/21/23
OTOH, if those calls had been successful, he'd be hailed as the guy who took down Texas and people would be watching FlightAware hoping for flights from Manhattan to College Station.

Yes, it's only one game - but if it's that game, nothing else matters to a lot of "casuals" as Josh Pate would say.
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merch
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12:40p, 11/21/23
What makes it so inexcusable is that he knew he was going for it on fourth down. As such, he needed about 1 yard per carry in that scenario for game winning TD. 3 tush pushes probably wins game.
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Divining Rod
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In reply to Tickethead • 12:58p, 11/21/23
Tickethead said:
One game against the team you loath the most in the universe should not override the entire sample size.
I completely disagree. I think that 4th quarter was revealing. What happened there is an example of exactly one of the reasons we are making a coaching change here.

I think we kept giving Fisher a pass because we figured deep down he knew what he was doing. In retrospect, the game management was extremely revealing. We kept hoping it was an aberration every time. It wasn't.



(and I'll give you this: they are the team I loathe most [of course] and a lot of the reason for this post is I kept picturing next year's 'sip game and how I would lose my mind if this happened)
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1:05p, 11/21/23
AG
His entire career} one game

Even Bear Bryant and Nick Saban have had bad games.
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aTm2004
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1:24p, 11/21/23
AG
So, a coach who knew the talent on his team didn't match that of his opponent's, took some chances to win on the road that didn't pan out, and instead of getting blown out like most thought, they lost by a FG in OT? OK.
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aTm2004
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In reply to Emilio Fantastico • 1:25p, 11/21/23
AG
Emilio Fantastico said:
He was like Jimbo shuffling through his Denny's menu
He's a defensive guy. Don't see him holding the menu for offensive calls.
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aTm2004
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In reply to halfastros81 • 1:27p, 11/21/23
AG
halfastros81 said:
He also won i believe 3 straight fcs championships at ND St and is consistently competitive with a subpar roster for a p5 school. I agree he was really bad in that game tho.
Was at ND State for 5 years...walked away with 4 FSC national titles. His 3rd year, they got knocked out in the semifinals to the team that would win the championship a game later. Not too bad.
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Divining Rod
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1:30p, 11/21/23
look, your dad blew it. whether he is calling the plays or not, if you allow THOSE decisions in THAT kind of game, you're not what Texas A&M is looking for.
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aTm2004
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In reply to Divining Rod • 1:35p, 11/21/23
AG
I'm 100% certain if you look at EVERY coach (including Saban), you're going to find calls/decisions like that. There is not a coach worth a salt at any level that couldn't tell you their mistakes. Hell, I'm sure Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could tell you boneheaded decisions they've made that cost their team the game.

Some of you expect perfection 100% of the time, and it's just not possible.
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halfastros81
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In reply to aTm2004 • 1:36p, 11/21/23
AG
So he won 2 fcs titles in a row twice. I was too lazy to look it up but I knew it was quite a run.

I believe Sam Houston won the other one
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aTm2004
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In reply to halfastros81 • 1:39p, 11/21/23
AG
James Madison, who they lost to in his 3rd year won it. But yeah, back-to-back championships twice. Sam won in 2020, after Klieman was at K-State.
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Tickethead
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In reply to Divining Rod • 1:49p, 11/21/23
AG
Who's your top 3
With a very brief why on each?
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offenseguru
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In reply to Divining Rod • 2:02p, 11/21/23
AG
I think there is actually a lot of strategy, data, film and analysis that's supported each of these decisions. Texas just best then on these plays.

When ur the underdog and you get to certain situations and especially getting that close to the goal line the playbooks says to be aggressive. Going empty you hope to create spread out defense and mismatch, in OT rule of thumb is you get really close inside the 5 especially against Texas defense you want to get 6 because later in OT they may score 6 and ur pressed then.
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Aggie1188
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2:10p, 11/21/23
Kansas State has a run-heavy offense.
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VikingNik
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2:12p, 11/21/23
AG
I think it reflects bad real time executive management decision making. Everyone watching could feel the momentum was clearly in KSU's favor. To risk it all onto a tough fourth down play was not the right choice, either at the time and certainly not after the fact.
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ashley
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2:14p, 11/21/23
That game certainly doesn't disqualify him for. You have to look at his body of work.
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93MarineHorn
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2:17p, 11/21/23
Quote:
HUGE BLUNDER #3 Now facing 4th and goal from the 4yd line, and with a Texas offense that is doing NOTHING, KSt needs a FG to send it to double OT. Instead, they run a pass play from shotgun- QB is sacked under pressure and game ends.
This was the biggest head scratcher of all. Even the announcers after the game were questioning it. Going for it on 4th and goal from the 4 yd line is a low percentage play. They had all the momentum and no one that watched that 4th quarter would consider KSU the underdog at that point in time. KSU was going up and down the field at will while Texas was floundering with a backup QB that was struggling. It was the stupidest coaching decision I've seen in a long time. Just kick the chip shot FG and move on to double OT.
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kwammer
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In reply to aTm2004 • 2:51p, 11/21/23
aTm2004 said:
I'm 100% certain if you look at EVERY coach (including Saban), you're going to find calls/decisions like that. There is not a coach worth a salt at any level that couldn't tell you their mistakes. Hell, I'm sure Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could tell you boneheaded decisions they've made that cost their team the game.

Some of you expect perfection 100% of the time, and it's just not possible.
yep....perfect example from the same game. K State was only able to make it game in the 2nd half bec of several poor decisions by Sark
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beerad12man
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3:08p, 11/21/23
AG
That's a silly reason and Urban Meyer would even say as much.

Culture.

Recruiting.

if you can do those two things, you will win big at this level. Not wanting a coach because of a poor decision here or there is silly. You can go through saban's career and find a tone of bad gameday decisions.

I'd be much more worried about what recruiting would look under him. Couldn't care less about 1-2 gameday decisions. So far down the list of what makes a program.
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UntoldSpirit
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5:53p, 11/21/23
AG
This thread needs some debunking.

First, the blunder #1 is just fake news and inaccurate. KSU did not go for two as stated. They kicked the extra point, tu was offsides making contact, so the refs blew the whistle. No play. Offsides tu. Half the distance penalty. KSU then lined up to kick the extra point again, as you would expect. The problem is that the center snapped it to the holder while he wasn't looking and it bounced off his facemask. So they couldn't get the kick off. It was just a mistake made by the center/holder.

Blunder #2 is not really a blunder, just a play call that didn't work. There were a ton of play calls that DID work, allowing KSU to come back from a three TD deficit, but you can't get them all.

Blunder #3. A controversial decision, but one that I agree with. You are on the road. Both teams are exhausted. If you go to a protracted overtime, the odds are not with the visiting team. Plus if you get to the third overtime, its a two point play contest. So you basically have an opportunity to win it right now with what is essentially a two point play as opposed to trying to win it later probably doing the same thing if you are lucky enough to get back to that situation.

Controversial, yes. Gamble, yes. But on the road, I'd take that gamble. It didn't work. It probably wouldn't have worked if he kicked the FG either.
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Fanatic15...Drs2B!
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6:13p, 11/21/23
Would be happy to hire him if DeBoer turns us down. History of WINNING at Kansas State and elsewhere.as head coach.

Way better option than Fisch or Traylor in my opinion.
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TecRecAg
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6:13p, 11/21/23
AG
I'm sure Bjork will take your post into consideration during conversations with leadership.

Why people feel the need to get their thoughts out there on things they don't control is beyond me.
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Iraq2xVeteran
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6:39p, 11/21/23
AG
Yes, Chris Klieman made some costly decisions in a 33-30 overtime loss Texas, but he has a history of winning at both FCS North Dakota State and Kansas State. In his 4th season, then 9-3 Kansas State upset undefeated 12-0 TCU 31-28 in the 2022 Big 12 Championship Game for their first Big 12 Championship in 10 years. I would be happy if we hired Klieman.
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Hamburger Dan
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6:49p, 11/21/23
His teams always punch above their weight class. They're tough, disciplined, (as much as todays athletes are) he knows how to win with lesser type athletes, and his staff has won Championships! aTm would be lucky as hell to get him.
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phatty26
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In reply to Divining Rod • 6:56p, 11/21/23
Divining Rod said:

Yeah, it's just one game, but it was a HUGE game for KState. Finally a chance to get the 'sip monkey off their back (KSt had lost 6 in a row to Texas).

KState was down 27-7, then started a comeback from mid 3rd Qtr. Catching Texas with about 12 min left in game, they tied it 27-27 with chance to take the lead 28-27. BLUNDER #1: After a Texas offside, he decides to go for 2 instead of the lead that would give them the edge in any scoring see-saw the rest of the way. Texas holds.

KSt was dominating 2nd half- total yards were 219yds to 118 for 'sips. Last 5 possessions were:
KSt: TD TD TD MissedFG FG
Tex: FG Int Fumble FG Punt

With 2 min left, KSt was down 3 (27-30) and facing 3rd and 1 at the Texas 8. BLUNDER #2 Kleiman goes to a pistol, then sends the RB in motion so it is the QB alone in the shotgun 7 yards deep and they try a QB run off tackle. KSt had no success running the QB all day and he had a negative 20 yds rushing. Texas snuffs it out for a 3 yard loss and Kst misses a FG.

KSt then holds Texas using 3 timeouts and gets ball back with 1:30. They drive the field and kick a 45yd FG to tie the game 30-30 and send it to OT.

KSt wins flip and goes on D. AGAIN, the 'sip offense stalls, gains 1 yd in 3 plays and kicks a clutch 42yd FG to go up 33-30. Now KSt has all the momentum. They drive down immediately to the Texas 6yd line. QB runs for 2 to the 4. 2nd down, they try a fake QB run/pass but pass is batted down near the LOS. 3rd down, KSt tries a pass in end zone that is nowhere near a receiver. HUGE BLUNDER #3 Now facing 4th and goal from the 4yd line, and with a Texas offense that is doing NOTHING, KSt needs a FG to send it to double OT. Instead, they run a pass play from shotgun- QB is sacked under pressure and game ends.


Yeah, it's one game, but those decisions were some of the worst I've seen in a long long time- especially because there were 3 of them all in the 4th qtr of a HUGE game (KSt basically playing to remain in the B12 playoff hunt).

Hard pass on this coach.


**** no

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Tickethead
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In reply to TecRecAg • 6:57p, 11/21/23
AG
TecRecAg said:
I'm sure Bjork will take your post into consideration during conversations with leadership.

Why people feel the need to get their thoughts out there on things they don't control is beyond me.


Prolly for the same reason people log on here and whack a mole someone for offering an opinion???
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Double Diamond
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7:01p, 11/21/23
Can he recruit?
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halfastros81
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In reply to Double Diamond • 7:43p, 11/21/23
AG
He can get players that he can win with apparently. Whether that translates to the SEC… no say.
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neutics
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In reply to beerad12man • 7:54p, 11/21/23
AG
beerad12man said:
That's a silly reason and Urban Meyer would even say as much.

Culture.

Recruiting.

.


Klieman knocks culture out of the park, and it's certainly not due to any Deion type of charisma. He excels at finding the hidden gems and developing them in a true team culture. Not sure how that would work honestly with A&Ms entitlement mentality.,

Lifelong Bison fan here born in Fargo and parents still go to every game and have gotten to know some of the players over the years. That program is special and it's not just about the coaching.
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