Questions about EPL

1,048 Views | 4 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by ThunderCougarFalconBird
txaggiefarmer05
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AG
Casual fan here, and yesterday I was watching Brighton & Hove. So they've been up for 5 years and are obviously making OK money, but do they spend decent money to bring guys in, are these smaller clubs just developmental clubs? Watching yesterday they were really fun to watch, and either through AV or Tottenham subreddits I know Bissouma is a big target. In a general sense, should they keep him to stay up or sell him to make money?

Don't know much about English cities and it doesn't look too far from London, is Brighton a ****hole or do players prefer to stay in London or close if there not in Manchester?

I know I always hear about Villa's academy, and I'm sure there are other quality academies, but are they just at wealthier, more perennial epl clubs like Everton, Southampton, or West Ham? Do the big 6 care as much about development since they throw money at whatever they want?

Sorry for the essay, just figured I'd get it all out at once.
Aston94
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AG
Happy to help answer your questions. But they seem all over the place.

Brighton is a lovely beach resort town. Not the big city of London or Manchester, but a really nice area.
Dre_00
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Pretty much any club that isn't a top 6 club is a selling club. And even within the top 6 there are tiers where clubs have relatively more/less financial strength. But a team like Brighton will always be a selling club unless there are massive changes to the financial structure of club football at an international level. Their revenue streams are about 1/5 that of the top 6...and that's not even considering the off the book revenue power of the state run clubs.

Clubs like Brighton succeed by being smarter than most everyone else and have little margin for error. If they spend and get it wrong, they don't have the finances to cover their mistake. If they sell at the wrong time and don't have a sufficient cover for the player they sold, they don't have the squad size or the the financial power to fix their mistake. A lot of these clubs that are punching above their weight are doing so by investing heavily in analytics to find good players who are undervalued. Whether or not they should sell Bissouma will depend on how much they get for him, how they replace him, and whether that replacement succeeds. It's a complicated process and strategy with a lot of decisions that need to be made any of which could have a significant impact on the club if they get it wrong. (Side note, if you're interested in this phenomenon, Brentford are an extremely interesting club to learn about.)

Brighton isn't a ****hole but it's not a big population center. Personally, I don't think many players make a decision to move to a club based on the quality of the town. It matters to a degree of course but at the end of the day, if Brighton was an elite club challenging for major trophies and paying out massive wages, elite players would be interested in going there. I think the reason why you see the top clubs generally residing in large population areas is because of the revenue stream a large population/butts in seats provided. Not as big of a revenue stream now with TV contracts and the global commercialization of football but it mattered a lot back in the day. Winning in Manchester or London led to more money than it did in Brighton.

There are definitely some non top 6 clubs with strong academies. But the top 6 clubs also have very strong academies and they are generally stronger than the academies outside of the top 6. They use their financial might and success to gobble up youth talent just like they use it to gobble up developed, professional talent.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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AG
txaggiefarmer05 said:

Casual fan here, and yesterday I was watching Brighton & Hove. So they've been up for 5 years and are obviously making OK money, but do they spend decent money to bring guys in, are these smaller clubs just developmental clubs? Watching yesterday they were really fun to watch, and either through AV or Tottenham subreddits I know Bissouma is a big target. In a general sense, should they keep him to stay up or sell him to make money?

Don't know much about English cities and it doesn't look too far from London, is Brighton a ****hole or do players prefer to stay in London or close if there not in Manchester?

I know I always hear about Villa's academy, and I'm sure there are other quality academies, but are they just at wealthier, more perennial epl clubs like Everton, Southampton, or West Ham? Do the big 6 care as much about development since they throw money at whatever they want?

Sorry for the essay, just figured I'd get it all out at once.
You're probably going to get a lot of iterations of the same answer to these questions on this thread with different flavors from different posters. All of the questions you asked are really good ones and I hope they generate a lot of interesting discussion.

I'll start with something of an anecdote (and I realize the plural of anecdote isn't data but this will set the tone for my post): There are 4 "full-professional" levels in the English system -- EPL, Championship, League One, League Two. Below that, there are plenty of clubs with paid professionals on the roster but they aren't considered full professional clubs. Every year, as you know, teams are promoted and relegated. The two sorry clubs at the bottom of league two fall out of the professional ranks into Conference National.

On the other end, there are petrostate-backed (Man City), American investor and/or billionaire backed (Man U, Liverpool), and other big-money backed (Chelsea) clubs. Even these clubs, with all of their money, could theoretically have a bad season and find themselves spending a year in the Championship.

Over the summer, a controlling stake in the MLS's Houston Dynamo was on the sales block for a purported $400 million. A controlling stake in Newcastle United (a large club with a solid history, huge stadium, and maniacal fanbase) was purportedly on the block for about $300 million. A big driving force in the price difference between a very big (nearly) perennial EPL side and an underperforming, small market MLS club who fields a team that would probably be mid-table in League One (third tier in English system) is that the MLS Club owns its spot in the league.

The paragraphs above are to illustrate the big differences between American-style franchise based leagues and to drive home the fact that you are asking the right questions. The front office in each situation has different motivating factors behind every transaction they make. Remember several years back when the Houston Astros went on a 3 season streak of losing 100 games as part of a long-term "rebuilding" effort? It worked. But if relegation existed, the Astros would have acted differently to keep their spot in MLB or would have spent a few years in AAA (or even AA given how bad the team was for a while). Sorry if all of the above was a little too "elementary" but I think it helps to understand thinking inside of the front office.

A club like Brighton starts every season with goal number 1 as keeping their place in the league. The cut of the TV money and all of the other money associated with being in the EPL is huge. As Dre_00 described it, they are playing a good amount of moneyball. They have to put 11 guys on the field that can churn out ~40 points over a 38 game season. They look to sell high and buy low to keep their coffers as full as they can. Sometimes it pays off in spades. Look at Leicester with N'golo Kante. They bought him for a modest 5.7 million pounds, played him in a "small club" side that actually WON the EPL, and then sold him off to Chelsea for 32 million. So if a smaller club thinks they can sell high, they will sell high.

Anymore, pretty much every club has a development academy. The pipeline might not churn out a large number of guys that go on to play for the first team, but it does. And others get sold to other professional outfits. There is good money to be had in running a quality academy.

In terms of geography, there are some players that might prefer London over other places in England, but at EPL wages, picking Brentford so you can live in London instead of Leeds purely for the fact that you want to be in London is a small factor. The UK is so much smaller than the US and the variations in climate and environment are much less pronounced. There is a much smaller difference between London and Manchester than there is between Oklahoma City and Los Angeles.
txaggiefarmer05
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AG
Thanks for the info, even writing the post I knew it was convoluted and rambling.

Never thought about it in the terms of getting to 40 points, but makes a lot of sense.

Just found it fascinating that around the time B&HA got promoted, so did Huddersfield. Relegated after 2019, they barely stayed up in the Championship last season and look to be at the bottom again. Guess I just enjoy the promotion/relegation factor and how drastic it can be. And would love to see it in P5/G5 cfb.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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AG
txaggiefarmer05 said:

And would love to see it in P5/G5 cfb.
I have predicted for a while that American football will be the next league to have promotion and relegation. It would be cool to see the Aggies win the SEC and get promoted to the NFL while the Texans Texan and get dropped to the SEC.

That said, it's really a different mentality you have to get into from a front-office analytics standpoint. They also don't have anything resembling the concept of a "draft." Clubs are free to their own devices to scout out talent and -- if legal (work permits, etc) -- sign whoever they want to professional contracts. There's no monopoly on professionalism or cashing in on talent (NFL) or forced amateurism as the only path to cashing in (NCAA football).

The feature that I really like is that since teams aren't franchises and don't "own" their spot in the league, ownership can't just go to the local government and say, "bend over and write us check for a new stadium or I'm moving the team to Vegas." One team -- AFC Wimbledon -- tried it about 20 years ago. A once top-flight regular now spends its time as the MK Dons languishing in the third tier of professional football playing against the club that former ACF Wimbledon fans formed and carefully cultivated into a professional side after being slighted by the departure.

Sorry for the meandering responses. This is fun stuff for me to talk about.
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