https://theathletic.com/3213657/2022/03/28/explained-the-two-historic-champions-league-places-which-clubs-could-benefit-and-who-new-qualification-slots-might-go-to/?source=user_shared_article

European Club Association is proposing changes to the CL starting in 24-25. 4 new spots in the group stage, 1 for the next highest ranked League (France), 1 for the Champions path, and 2 for the 2 highest ranked uefa coefficient teams who missed out on qualification and finished one spot out of the CL spots in their league.

Basically if man United is the best team in Europe to not qualify and they finish 5th in England then they still get a CL spot. But if they finish 6th and West Ham finish 5th then neither qualify.

Ludicrous

I should note that this is just the eca's proposal to uefa.

Yep pretty stupid, but I could see UEFA accepting it as a way to abate more Super League talk. Its basically a way for England to get another team into the CL.

Not necessarily just for English teams, like at one point it looked like Juventus and Barcelona would finish out of the top 4.

I agree with giving the 5th place team another spot. Makes it pretty hit or miss currently when the top 4 each get 4 automatic group stage spots, but 5th anf 6th only get 2. The current system makes it near impossible for the top 4 to lose their spots.

For those cant read the article due to the pay wall, here is who would have qualified via this rule in the last 5 seasons

21-22
Lyon - 4th in France, 19th in uefa
Napoli - 5th in Italy, 20th in uefa

20-21
Roma - 5th in Italy, 17th in Uefa
Leverkusen - 5th jn Germany, 23rd in Uefa

19-20
Arsenal - 5th in epl, 9th in uefa
United - 6th in epl, 18th in uefa

18-19
Chelsea - 5th in epl, 13th jn uefa
Arsenal - 6th in epl, 9th in uefa

17-18
Arsenal - 5th in epl, 11th in uefa
United - 6th in epl, 15th in uefa.

jeffk said:

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Eww gross. I'm seeing a lot of Arsenal in that list and for that reason I'm out.

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Seems like a great system to me. Of course most of those Arsenal team would have crashed and burned.

I like the coupling of these requirements… if a team was good historically (UEFA coefficient) I don't think they should be rewarded and go if they finish mid-table.

Essentially this says: if you want to make the Champions League, don't get passed up in your domestic league by lesser teams. Which is the way it's always been. Under current rules if West Ham finish 4th and United 5th, it wouldn't mean squat that United have a better UEFA coefficient… I'm not sure how this is different than that.

Putting it differently this says that these two extra spots will go to historically powerful teams if, and only if, the only teams that beat them in their domestic standings are ones that are also Champions League teams.

Now… if you wanna gripe at the shift to the Swiss model and the expansion to 36 itself, that's a different argument that's worth having (but also moot I suppose since it's a done deal)… but since we're going to get new teams, I like this as a proposed way to add new teams, and in fact, I wish they did it with all 4 extra spots, because they'd probably end up getting some trickle-down into Portugal/Dutch/etc.

Also, I'd be curious to see what this does to the other UEFA spots. In the years where EPL would get 6 teams in with this new rule, does that mean they get no one in Europa League and 7th place goes to the crappy new tournament (can't even remember the name of it right now)? Or does it mean that #7 and 8 go to Europa and #9 goes to the new nasty? Neither of those options seem particularly good to be honest, but I suppose the latter makes the most sense… which means UEFA will probably do the former.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/uefa-champions-league/story/4366699/champions-league-swiss-model-revamp-all-you-need-to-know

Article from last year. no paywall.

I had more of an issue with the way they were discussing changing from pods to a large group of teams, where you didn't play everyone in your group, or would only play them once, and then top 4-6 teams would advance to knockouts.

More teams doesn't bother me that much.

The way its described seems weird since people are focusing on the "if Manchester United finish 5th they make it but 6th they wont!" but really its just throwing all of the teams that barely missed qualification by one spot into the bucket and using the coefficient to pick two. Its not "next best team in europe spots" its "wildcard spots for a couple teams that barely missed it"

ChipFTAC01 said:

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For those cant read the article due to the pay wall, here is who would have qualified via this rule in the last 5 seasons

21-22
Lyon - 4th in France, 19th in uefa
Napoli - 5th in Italy, 20th in uefa

20-21
Roma - 5th in Italy, 17th in Uefa
Leverkusen - 5th jn Germany, 23rd in Uefa

19-20
Arsenal - 5th in epl, 9th in uefa
United - 6th in epl, 18th in uefa

18-19
Chelsea - 5th in epl, 13th jn uefa
Arsenal - 6th in epl, 9th in uefa

17-18
Arsenal - 5th in epl, 11th in uefa
United - 6th in epl, 15th in uefa.

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I would hope they don't do it that way where English clubs can piggyback in off of other English Clubs from 6th place. That does make things weird.

Right now the top 7 in England is the Big 6 plus West Ham, so all 6 would qualify if they finish 1-6, but if West Ham finishes above any of them they would become the cut off for themselves and everyone below them unless they finish 4th.

I guess Roma is in a position to pip Arsenal or Tottenham (and therefore also screw Manchester United) if this was in effect now, but also if this had been in place for years, England's club coefficients would likely be boosted based on getting these extra spots for years. I don't like the same nation getting two spots like this in such an arbitrary manner.

Meh. United doesn't need anyones help screwing themselves. They are perfectly capable of taking care of that all on their own.

young eugene said:

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https://www.espn.com/soccer/uefa-champions-league/story/4366699/champions-league-swiss-model-revamp-all-you-need-to-know

Article from last year. no paywall.

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The ECA is proposing changes to 3&4 at the bottom of that.

I'd be good with either… but prefer this ECA proposal. The Athletic article brings up a really interesting thing that might happen at the club level… since this will result in clubs from different leagues competing for these two spots, more fans will watch.

So using the OP's example - the thought is that fans in Italy Spain and Germany may watch West Ham games and root for them to stay 5th so that United can't get a spot, and so on. This setup helps feed the drama. You know there will be trackers showing who gets these two spots and what it takes for them to lose the spots.

But I agree with y'all - it doesn't seem right to let one league get both extra spots.

Sounds complicated. Complicated isn't fun. Finish top 4 or stay home.

Here's more about why the ECA (i.e. the clubs) are proposing this alternative to what UEFA already intends to do. Doing nothing isn't an option - there will be a bigger field with more clubs... the question is how to pick the clubs, and it's bound to be a dirty compromise with so many different interests at stake.

But what clubs absolutely hate about what UEFA currently plans to do is that it would allow leapfrogging... i.e. to use the OP's example, that United could finish 6th and get to the Champions League, while West Ham finishes 5th and goes to Europa. That's what would happen in the current UEFA plan, and all 20 EPL clubs are rightly against that notion.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11945/12588648/many-premier-league-clubs-opposing-uefas-plans-for-champions-league-wildcards-for-sides-with-historic-success-in-europe

Quote:

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Sky Sports News understands all 20 Premier League clubs unanimously asked league officials in 2021 to oppose UEFA's proposal for wildcard places that might lead to "leap-frogging" and the inevitable sporting integrity issues.

It's thought the Premier League is still lobbying UEFA, via the European Leagues group, for the idea to be removed, with some apparent success. One such meeting happened on Tuesday, I'm told.

As a result, it now looks likely that "leap-frogging" will be banned under the new UEFA plans, but the coefficient calculation will remain.

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