I'm using a modified version of Bob Sturm's NFL All-time rankings

The points are tallied for playoff success only.

Each team gets 1 point for each season it makes the playoffs. They get more points depending on how far they advance.

Farthest Round Advanced / Total Points Earned per season:
1st round 1
2nd round 3
Conference Finals 4
NBA Finals 6
Won Title 13

Determining the amount to weigh each round advanced is tough. I figure that it's a bigger jump from 1st to 2nd round than 2nd to 3rd round, because often the 2nd round matches up the 2 best teams because they don't reseed. Also, I want the title winner to have more than double the points than the runner up, so you can't equal 1 title by losing twice in the Finals (ie, the Nets shouldn't get just as many points as the Heat for losing in the Finals twice)

Results:

1 Los Angeles Lakers 69 points in 9 playoff seasons
2 San Antonio Spurs 58 points in 10 playoff seasons
3 Detroit Pistons 40 points in 9 playoff seasons
4 Miami Heat 26 points in 7 playoff seasons
5 Boston Celtics 25 points in 6 playoff seasons
6 Dallas Mavericks 25 points in 9 playoff seasons
7 New Jersey Nets 22 points in 6 playoff seasons
8 Phoenix Suns 17 points in 7 playoff seasons
9 Indiana Pacers 17 points in 7 playoff seasons
11 Philadelphia 76ers 16 points in 7 playoff seasons
10 Cleveland Cavaliers 16 points in 4 playoff seasons
12 Sacramento Kings 16 points in 7 playoff seasons
13 Utah Jazz 14 points in 7 playoff seasons
14 Orlando Magic 13 points in 6 playoff seasons
15 New Orleans Hornets 13 points in 7 playoff seasons
16 Denver Nuggets 9 points in 6 playoff seasons
17 Portland Trail Blazers 8 points in 5 playoff seasons
18 Milwaukee Bucks 8 points in 5 playoff seasons
19 Minnesota Timberwolves 8 points in 5 playoff seasons
20 Houston Rockets 7 points in 5 playoff seasons
21 Toronto Raptors 7 points in 5 playoff seasons
22 Chicago Bulls 6 points in 4 playoff seasons
24 New York Knickerbockers 6 points in 3 playoff seasons
23 Washington Wizards 6 points in 4 playoff seasons
25 Oklahoma City Thunder 5 points in 3 playoff seasons
26 Atlanta Hawks 4 points in 2 playoff seasons
27 Golden State Warriors 3 points in 1 playoff seasons
28 Los Angeles Clippers 3 points in 1 playoff seasons
29 Memphis Grizzlies 3 points in 3 playoff seasons
30 Charlotte Bobcats 0 points in 0 playoff seasons

Discussion:

The Lakers are the clear dominant team of the 00s, with the Spurs a clear 2nd.

The Pistons are comfy in 3rd, then there is a clog at 4-6 with the Celtics, Heat and Mavs.

The top 5 teams are the 5 title winning teams of the 00s, and then there's the Mavs.

There is a clog at 8-12 between teams that all made the 3rd and 4th round a couple times.

Every team made the playoffs at least once except Charlotte.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 6/15/2009 2:43p).]

The only surprise I see is the Jazz. I thought they'd be higher.

Mavs are the best team without a championship. Figures. Just another painful reminder of how dominant Salvatore was in the 06 finals.

That seems like a pretty arbitrary point system.

Half of those are not where they should be.

I think there should be a little more accounting for the actual regular season. The guy's NFL rankings only give making the playoffs one point when its not easy at all to make the playoffs in the NFL. Obviously its easier in the NBA, but there should be some credit for winning 50+ games or winning your division or finishing with a top 4 seed... or something.

Anyway, also of note is that if you were to include the '99 season the Spurs are virtually tied with the Lakers in that ranking.

Yeah look how it changes if you count the '99 season:

Rank / Team / Post-Jordan Era

1 Los Angeles Lakers 72
2 San Antonio Spurs 71
3 Detroit Pistons 41
4 Miami Heat 27
5 Boston Celtics 25
6 Dallas Mavericks 25
7 New Jersey Nets 22
8 Indiana Pacers 21
9 Philadelphia 76ers 19
10 Phoenix Suns 18
11 Sacramento Kings 17
12 Utah Jazz 17
13 Cleveland Cavaliers 16
14 Orlando Magic 14
15 New Orleans Hornets 13
16 New York Knickerbockers 12
17 Portland Trail Blazers 12
18 Milwaukee Bucks 9
19 Minnesota Timberwolves 9
20 Denver Nuggets 9
21 Houston Rockets 8
22 Atlanta Hawks 7
23 Toronto Raptors 7
24 Chicago Bulls 6
25 Washington Wizards 6
26 Oklahoma City Thunder 5
27 Golden State Warriors 3
28 Los Angeles Clippers 3
29 Memphis Grizzlies 3
30 Charlotte Bobcats 0


The way the NBA has been structured post-merger, if you tweak the dates a little it looks better:

1980-1990: The Magic-Bird Era
1991-1998: The Jordan Era
1999-present: The post-Jordan Era (should we be calling it the Kobe Era yet? or the Duncan Era?)
Future dates, waiting patiently: The LeBron Era

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 6/15/2009 11:18p).]

did you forget about shaq?

he also has 4 titles

Shaq overlaps with Jordan too much. He could just have his own category. The guy has taken 3 different teams to the Finals, that in itself is unprecedented. Although I am still waiting for his guarantee to come through in Phx.

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I think there should be a little more accounting for the actual regular season. The guy's NFL rankings only give making the playoffs one point when its not easy at all to make the playoffs in the NFL. Obviously its easier in the NBA, but there should be some credit for winning 50+ games or winning your division or finishing with a top 4 seed... or something.

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I disagree. So you win 60 games and lose in the first round? Great. You're still a first round loser. Same thing with the NFL. So the Cowboys win 13 games and lose in the first round? Congrats. There are 8 teams better than you. While just looking at the playoffs teams might not be enough to look at if you are only looking at one season, across a number of seasons like this, playoff success is all that matters.

Good job on the weightings.

I did forget about Shaq. Let's call 1999-present the Shaq-Duncan Era. They were on 8 out of 9 title teams. The era may have ended in 2007 though...we won't know for sure for another few years whenever the LeBron era or something else finally starts...it depends on what happens the next few years.

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I disagree. So you win 60 games and lose in the first round? Great. You're still a first round loser. Same thing with the NFL. So the Cowboys win 13 games and lose in the first round? Congrats. There are 8 teams better than you. While just looking at the playoffs teams might not be enough to look at if you are only looking at one season, across a number of seasons like this, playoff success is all that matters.

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I don't agree with that. When you're coming up with a way to evaluate the overall strength and success of a team the regular has to count for something. Take this NBA ranking. Shouldn't the Lakers get penalized a little more for not even making the playoffs one year and barely making it in a couple of others? Meanwhile, a team like the Suns have had some great teams but could never beat the Spurs so they never got to a Finals. That doesn't mean those weren't very good teams during that era. I think getting to the playoffs is more than one point better than being in the lottery.

Another big flaw in the system is the relative strength of the conferences has too much of an effect. In the West, during most of the decade you had to beat three solid to great teams to get to the Finals. Meanwhile, a team like Detroit had been able to waltz to 5 straight conference championships with little resistance. I mean, seriously, remember that Antoine Walker led Celtic team that made the Eastern conference finals? That team had zero chance of beating any of the top six Western teams yet they get "bonus points" for that great accomplishment.

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Each team gets 1 point for each season it makes the playoffs. They get more points depending on how far they advance.

Farthest Round Advanced / Total Points Earned per season:
1st round 1
2nd round 3
Conference Finals 4
NBA Finals 6
Won Title 13

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The problem with this scoring is that Eastern conference teams get too much credit for making the playoffs. Teams in the East make the playoffs with losing records and get points, while teams in the West win 48 or 49 games and don't get jack. The teams at the top wouldn't change, but the middle of the pack would be different if you found a way to better weight the system.

Seriously.. you are going to tell me that Milwaukee and Minnesota have had better programs than the Rockets this decade?

Anyone have regular season win totals for the 3 teams for the decade? Pretty sure Minnesota has had more success in the playoffs based on their run to the WCF one year. Not sure, but I think the Bucks went to the ECF this decade as well.

When judging a program, 1 anomaly year surrounded by a bunch of down years is not better than many years of sustained high level basketball with little playoff success.

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I think teams should also get points for putting together a long string of 50+ win consectuive season like the Spurs and Mavs have done.

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Teams with 50+ win seasons should get an extra point, and then another extra point for a 60+ win season. Also, teams with losing records should lose a point. This would cancel out the playoff point for those sub .500 teams from the East that made the playoffs.

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When judging a program, 1 anomaly year surrounded by a bunch of down years is not better than many years of sustained high level basketball with little playoff success.

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I was surprised about the Timberwolves and Bucks finishing above the Rockets, too, but looking at their records for the decade they are all probably pretty equal. The Wolves made the playoffs 5 times, and the WCF once. The Bucks made the playoffs 5 times, and the ECF once. The Rockets made the playoffs 5 times and the second round once. I think I'd rank the Rockets ahead of the Bucks because the Bucks play in the East and made the playoffs with records right around .500 4 times, while the Rockets missed the playoffs twice despite a winning record. I'm not upset about the Wolves being above the Rockets though. I think we forget the Rockets had some pretty bad teams the first half of the decade.

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Teams with 50+ win seasons should get an extra point, and then another extra point for a 60+ win season. Also, teams with losing records should lose a point. This would cancel out the playoff point for those sub .500 teams from the East that made the playoffs.

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I like this idea. Winning 50 or 60 games is significant. It's more significant than seeding or division titles imo. And making the playoffs with a losing record and getting blown out in the 1st round is significantly negative and not any better than barely missing the playoffs and making the lottery (I'll have to check the numbers to see how common it occurs).

I'll try to make the adjustments later. This should help account for the bad Eastern conference in the 00s.

New rankings, factoring in regular season levels:

Regular season bonus points:
+1 total for a 50 win season
+2 total for a 60 win season
-1 total for a sub-.500 playoff season

1 Los Angeles Lakers 78 points in 9 playoffs seasons with 5 50 win seasons, 2 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
2 San Antonio Spurs 70 points in 10 playoffs seasons with 8 50 win seasons, 2 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
3 Detroit Pistons 47 points in 9 playoffs seasons with 6 50 win seasons, 1 60 wins seasons, and 1 playoffs seasons under .500
4 Dallas Mavericks 37 points in 9 playoffs seasons with 6 50 win seasons, 3 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
5 Miami Heat 30 points in 7 playoffs seasons with 4 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
6 Boston Celtics 28 points in 6 playoffs seasons with 0 50 win seasons, 2 60 wins seasons, and 1 playoffs seasons under .500
7 Phoenix Suns 25 points in 7 playoffs seasons with 4 50 win seasons, 2 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
8 New Jersey Nets 23 points in 6 playoffs seasons with 1 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
9 Sacramento Kings 22 points in 7 playoffs seasons with 4 50 win seasons, 1 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
11 Indiana Pacers 20 points in 7 playoffs seasons with 1 50 win seasons, 1 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
10 Cleveland Cavaliers 20 points in 4 playoffs seasons with 2 50 win seasons, 1 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
12 Utah Jazz 18 points in 7 playoffs seasons with 4 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
13 Philadelphia 76ers 16 points in 7 playoffs seasons with 1 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 1 playoffs seasons under .500
15 Orlando Magic 14 points in 6 playoffs seasons with 2 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 1 playoffs seasons under .500
14 New Orleans Hornets 14 points in 7 playoffs seasons with 1 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
17 Portland Trail Blazers 12 points in 5 playoffs seasons with 4 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
16 Minnesota Timberwolves 12 points in 5 playoffs seasons with 4 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
19 Houston Rockets 11 points in 5 playoffs seasons with 4 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
18 Denver Nuggets 11 points in 6 playoffs seasons with 2 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
20 Milwaukee Bucks 8 points in 5 playoffs seasons with 1 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 1 playoffs seasons under .500
21 Toronto Raptors 7 points in 5 playoffs seasons with 0 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
25 Washington Wizards 6 points in 4 playoffs seasons with 0 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
24 Oklahoma City Thunder 6 points in 3 playoffs seasons with 1 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
23 New York Knickerbockers 6 points in 3 playoffs seasons with 1 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 1 playoffs seasons under .500
22 Chicago Bulls 6 points in 4 playoffs seasons with 0 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
26 Memphis Grizzlies 4 points in 3 playoffs seasons with 1 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
29 Los Angeles Clippers 3 points in 1 playoffs seasons with 0 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
28 Golden State Warriors 3 points in 1 playoffs seasons with 0 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500
27 Atlanta Hawks 3 points in 2 playoffs seasons with 0 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 1 playoffs seasons under .500
30 Charlotte Bobcats 0 points in 0 playoffs seasons with 0 50 win seasons, 0 60 wins seasons, and 0 playoffs seasons under .500


Compared to the 1st rankings:

Spurs get closer to Lakers
Dallas leaps ahead of Miami and Boston
Phoenix leaps ahead of New Jersey
Other Western teams move up (Utah, Sacramento, New Orleans) while Eastern teams move down (Indiana, Philly, Orlando)
Houston moves comfortably ahead of Milwaukee

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 6/17/2009 2:58p).]

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 6/17/2009 4:24p).]

those all-time rankings for the nfl make me sad.

the cowboys were the greatest franchise by a longshot, as of three years ago, actually as of last year, and now pittsburgh is within 5. ****.

It's too easy to make the playoffs in NBA. I'd throw out points for playoff appearances. You only get points if you make it to 2nd round.

That spreadsheet above has some glitches. You've double counted. When a team wins 60+ games, you're giving them credit for both 50 win season and 60 win season.

The total scores are fine, but the other results shown were double counting some 50 win seasons...it's fixed

this thread might make guitarsoup puke.

Why?

I think IF did a good job with all this. You are way too obsessed with me. Maybe you should spend more time learning about basketball and less time running your mouth and obsessing over me and this would be a more pleasant experience for everyone.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 6/17/2009 4:44p).]

You don't get points unless you make the second round?

So a team that makes the playoffs five years in a row, being one of the top 5 seeds, never gets a point?

Sorry, thats ****ing retarded.

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You don't get points unless you make the second round?

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What?

You get 1 point for making the playoffs. If you had a 50 win season, that is another point.

If you make the playoffs with a sub-.500 record and lose in the first round, then you get no points.

I think that is a nice ranking system. It looks fairly accurate. Over the course of ten seasons its not easy to stay good, as the evidence suggests.