I am really surprised that with all the reporting over the last year nobody, not one reporter has addressed what I believe to be the Elephant in the room---That is the Free Agency Bonanza that netted the Orlando Magic TMac and Grant Hill.

I see everyone reporting on the possibilities of these superstars teaming up and how it's going to lead to multiple championships and power shifts in the NBA. I call BS. I remember the Hill and TMac signings that were supposed to lead to Banners in Orlando, how did that work out again? If these players chose to sign with the teams that have gutted themselves--Miami and NY come to the forefront of my mind, they aren't changing anything. You need role players, and they don't come at the minimum salary. At the minimum salary you get a bunch of has been's and never was'. Who the heck is going to play defense 82 games a year and sacrifice their scoring? Did they not learn from our decade long fail of sending multiple All Star teams to international competition to get slaughtered? I don't give a crap if you have 3 of the top 20 in the NBA, if your other 5-6 rotation guys are D League players you ain't winning squat.

Look at how the Spurs history would have been changed if they sent Parker and all their financial flexibility packing and out the door to pick up Jason Kidd.

What did Olajuwon, Pippen, Barkley ever net the Rockets?

You cannot gut your roster to sign 2-3 superstars and expect to win championships because you end up with guys like Matt Maloney playing 40 minutes a game and killing you.

Am I the only one who sees this?

For the Rockets, Hakeem was 35, Barkley was 35, and Pippen was 33 when they all got together. None of those guys were really in their prime when they got together.

The magic got unlucky with grant hill. Injuries derailed their hopes.

This is different because all of these guys are in their prime. They all should have several quality years ahead of them. Injuries or selfishness could definitely derail anything, but these teams are setting themselves up well by landing marquee guys.

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I remember the Hill and TMac signings that were supposed to lead to Banners in Orlando, how did that work out again?

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Grant Hill went down immediately and was never the same again... that happens.

Barkley, Olajuwon, and Pippen were all past their primes.

The best example I can think of is Boston when they gave up a ton of assets to get Garnett and Allen. That worked out alright. Or how about when the Heat gutted their roster to get Shaq. Work out ok?

Boston is by far the best example of it working.

The heat didn't gut their roster, Odom and Butler for Shaq is hardly gutting the roster.

Shaq, Kobe, Malone, and Payton. Too many egos. Nobody willing to do the dirty work.

TMac and Yao. Didn't win a playoff series until the rest of the roster was built up to the point they didn't need TMac.

None of those teams were gutted to the point that the heat and knicks are right now.

the Nets and Bulls are different Animals altogether. I can see the appeal there.

Yes Grant Hill getting hurt was unforeseeable, Just like TMac and Yao were for the Rockets at the start of that experiment. It happens.

how many times during their run did the Spurs deal with injuries to Duncan, Ginobili, or Parker. You have to have a decent enough team around them to survive those injuries.

The only difference between this free agency period and the others you mentioned is the sheer NUMBER of big names involved. And you can't tell me that if they sign with different teams, Lebron, DWade, Bosh et al. are magically going to start sucking like Tmac did, or get injured the way Hill did.


This offseason has the potential to change the face of the NBA like no other offseason I can remember.

Pippen was never anything more than a role player. He just got superstar hype due to his championships via Jordan.

I 100% disagree with you. Pippen was an amazing defender, a great passer/facilitator and an unbelieveable finisher. If anything he was UNDERRATED because of his proximity to Jordan. He was every bit as good as Drexler/Barkley/Malone/Robinson/Stockton or any of the other non-Jordan superstars of that era.

That 'role player' Pippen led the Bulls to a 55 win regular season and the 2nd round of the playoffs the 1 season in his prime when Jordan had no presence on the team at all. What other 'role players' have been able to do that?

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how many times during their run did the Spurs deal with injuries to Duncan, Ginobili, or Parker.

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You mean in the playoffs in the years they won titles? Honestly, not that often.

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That 'role player' Pippen led the Bulls to a 55 win regular season and the 2nd round of the playoffs the 1 season in his prime when Jordan had no presence on the team at all. What other 'role players' have been able to do that?

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And his stats the follwing season were absolutely off the wall. Still one of only a handful of players EVER to lead his team in every single major statistical category.

It always bugs me when people equate Pippen to a Bull's version of Sean Elliott or Vernon Maxwell... Pippen was easily a top 15 maybe even a top 10 player in the 90's.

Pippen was one of the most physically gifted athletes on BOTH ends of the court to ever play the game. he was a better passer, rebounder, and arguably defender than Jordan.

if you think Pippen was some sort of scrub who michael made great and didn't really help Jordan's legacy....you're the most retarded person in the history of persons.

Didn't another thread JUST have this Pippen debate?

I think that this summer does have the ability to impact immensely the future of the NBA. I also think the talk I keep hearing of "If Lebron, Bosh, and Wade are in Miami or if Bosh and Lebron got to Chicago then they win 5 or 6 titles in the next 8 years" are flat out ridiculous.

Wade has some serious injury history and concerns and he's the only one with championship pedigree.

I'd love to have Bosh on the Rockets, but we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that he's got a chance to be the next Shareef Abdur Rahim. A good guy on bad teams.

Amare and Boozer both have huge injury concerns. Both may have benefitted from playing with two of the top PG's in the league more than we realize.

Joe Johnson led a pretty talented Hawks squad to a big bag of nothing.

Lebron has been really good thus far but how much wear and tear is on that frame from carrying talentless squads. Plus he's been treated with kid gloves thus far in the media. How will he respond if Bosh and Lebron go to Chicago and get bounced in the playoffs early? They will roast him in the media, he's never experienced that.


I agree this is exciting and all, but everyone needs to slow down and quit crowning their a**es

[This message has been edited by PoppaB05 (edited 6/30/2010 4:20p).]

Where does this Pippen hate come from?

Also, in relation to the 05 Heat not gutting their roster. After the trade they were left with Wade, Shaq, Haslem, Eddie Jones, and Rasual Butler. They filled out the rest of their roster afterwards with cheap free agents.

You are saying Wade, Lebron, and Bosh is worse off then the above roster? Guys will flock to that team to play for the minimum.

does anyone else think Joe Johnson is going anywhere but New York?

New York is renowned for overpaying guys and are already targeting 2nd/3rd options. Joe Johnson has a history for going to bad teams for mucho money.

I don't know where he'll end up but I'd be disappointed if I were a team geared up financially for the summer of 2010 and Johnson is what I ended up with.

I think there's a good chance he does end up in NY. Like simple said, NY has a history of overpaying role players and he has a history of wanting the $.

I think he would be a better fit alongside Lebron than Bosh or Wade though. He's a knockdown shooter and pretty good defender and would fit perfectly as Lebron's wingman....which is why it won't happen.

Joe Johnson will lead my list of FA signings that after a year or two, the team will be offering draft picks and players, just to get away from the burden of the contract.

Who I predict will receive the contract that has a team thinking "WTF were we thinking in 2010? and how are we going to get rid of this guy"

1. Joe Johnson
2. Rudy Gay
3. Amar'e
4. Boozer
5. Paul Pierce (if not back with Celtics)
6. Matt Barnes
7. John Salmons

you are leaving out that Duncan was about to sign with Orlando- the deal was TMac, Hill and Duncan

Duncan bailed and won 3 more titles- guess his agent knew how bad Hill's knee was

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That 'role player' Pippen led the Bulls to a 55 win regular season and the 2nd round of the playoffs the 1 season in his prime when Jordan had no presence on the team at all. What other 'role players' have been able to do that?

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Thanks for making my point. He couldn't win it without Jordan.

How many did Michael win without Scottie?

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Thanks for making my point. He couldn't win it without Jordan.

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Idiot. So, David Robinson, Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Payton, Wilkins... they're all role players too because they didn't win one 'on their own'?

I'll go out on a limb and say there's no way Jordan wins all 6 without Pippen.

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I see everyone reporting on the possibilities of these superstars teaming up and how it's going to lead to multiple championships and power shifts in the NBA. I call BS. I remember the Hill and TMac signings that were supposed to lead to Banners in Orlando, how did that work out again?

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Well, Grant Hill was injured a lot worse than anyone thought. And Orlando had some decent players around them.
Darrell Armstrong
Mike Miller
Pat Garrity
Troy Hudson
Bo Outlaw

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What did Olajuwon, Pippen, Barkley ever net the Rockets?

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I believe all three of those players had surpassed 1000 games by the time they were united on the Rockets. All were in the last couple years of their career and nothing like who they were in 1993.