and never wins a championship with "lesser" talent around him vs. going to the Bulls to play with Rose, noah, and another max guy and wins 2/3 championships, would you consider him a better player or just fortunate to be on a better team?

He's already a great player. I'd consider him fortunate to finally have a championship-worthy supporting cast.

As long as he's the #1 guy on the team for those 2-3 rings (add in some Finals MVPs) he's going to go down as one of the greats.

He's not Jordan, and they really aren't even close.

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I hope he stays in Cleveland and his legacy becomes Dirk v 2.0.

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you are terrible at hiding your hate for Lebron.

IF Lebron stays in Cleveland and never wins a title, he'd have a much more favorable comparison to a Dan Marino type...who's widely considered top 5 of all time at his position, but never won the title.

I agree titles are the main course in a "greatest of all time" feast...but it's not going to keep Lebron from being one of the top 5 of all time, especially at his position...if he keeps up at his current pace.

A Dirk comparison is ridiculous...even if you can't stand LeBron.

This just in....Nowitzki is a pretty damn good player.

FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
1998–99 Dallas 47 24 20.4 .405 .206 .773 3.4 1.0 .6 .6 8.2
1999–00 Dallas 82 81 35.8 .461 .379 .830 6.5 2.5 .8 .8 17.5
2000–01 Dallas 82 82 38.1 .474 .387 .838 9.2 2.1 1.0 1.2 21.8
2001–02 Dallas 76 76 38.0 .477 .397 .853 9.9 2.4 1.1 1.0 23.4
2002–03 Dallas 80 80 39.0 .463 .379 .881 9.9 3.0 1.4 1.0 25.1
2003–04 Dallas 77 77 37.9 .462 .341 .877 8.7 2.7 1.2 1.4 21.8
2004–05 Dallas 78 78 38.7 .459 .399 .869 9.7 3.1 1.2 1.5 26.1
2005–06 Dallas 81 81 38.1 .480 .406 .901 9.0 2.8 .7 1.0 26.6
2006–07 Dallas 78 78 36.2 .502 .416 .904 8.9 3.4 .7 .8 24.6
2007–08 Dallas 77 77 36.0 .479 .359 .879 8.6 3.5 .7 .9 23.6
2008–09 Dallas 81 81 37.7 .479 .359 .890 8.4 2.4 .8 .8 25.9
2009–10 Dallas 81 80 37.5 .481 .421 .915 7.7 2.7 .9 1.0 25.0
Career 920 895 36.7 .473 .380 .876 8.5 2.7 .9 1.0 22.9

Nowitzki is a nine-time NBA All-Star and ten-time member of the All-NBA Teams, and is the first European-born player in NBA history to receive the NBA Most Valuable Player award.[2] He is the first Maverick ever to be voted into an All-NBA Team and also holds several all-time Mavericks franchise records.[3] He led the German national basketball team to a bronze medal in the 2002 FIBA World Championship and the silver medal in EuroBasket 2005, and was leading scorer and elected Most Valuable Player in both tournaments. Regarded as one of the best European players in basketball history,

I never said he wasn't, but he's not going to go down as a top 5 player at his position, and he's not going to go down as one of the top 10 players of all time, IMO. Lebron WILL go down as that, with or without a ring....that's why I said a Marino comparison would be more suitable.

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but he's not going to go down as a top 5 player at his position

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not top 10 all-time, but you definitely can make a case for top 5 at his position.

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not top 10 all-time, but you definitely can make a case for top 5 at his position.

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I don't think you can:

PF's:

Duncan
Malone
Barkley
Garnett
McHale
Pettit
E. Hayes

I imagine there are more on this list that I missed.

top 10 at his position, yes. I'll give him that for now. Not top 5. And with Bosh and other young PF's pretty much taking over the NBA, you never know how his position in the top 10 could be jeopardized in the next 5/6 years. Though, I guess if he wins an MVP and/or get s ring, he could solidify his position in the top 10 as well.

He did win an MVP, and he got the trophy at home after being the first #1 seed to lose to an #8 seed in a 7 game format.

MJ won a title in his 8th season, and all of his titles came in the post Magic-Larry era. He got past Detroit because they got old. Detroit got past LA because LA got old. In his 6 title seasons, he only played one great contender (Phoenix in '93). I'm not denying MJ's greatness (heck, I'm a Tar Heel). I'm just saying that MJ had no peer in the Western Conference or even in his own conference. The closest he ever got was when Hakeem and Drexler were together, but alas, MJ was serving his gambling suspension for most of those 2 years. The Magic with Shaq and Penny couldn't stay together either. Stockton and Malone were great, but not in the same league with Majic/Worthy/Kareem.